VAR

[KiwiRover]

I thought he got all these decisions correct.

And there lies the problem, right? Whether the ball crosses the line or not is either right or wrong.
Some of the stuff VAR is being used for is not always so clear cut.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

It is not 100% foolproof, and we shouldn't expect it to be. In situations like that, the William one, I don't think I would have over ruled the ref. But, it will still reduce the amount of errors overall.

My concern is there may be an element of the referees union, in supporting fellow refs however at this stage it's too early to challenge the VARs integrity.

[bobjimwilly]

According to Sky the referee never referred to the VAR for either Chelsea penalty incident. So the VAR wasn't wrong.
The referee obviously needs more training and maybe more humility to refer to the VAR?

http://www.skysports.com/football/chelsea-vs-norwich/report/387609

[KiwiRover]

Referees? Humility?
Hahaha hahaha hahaha!!!

I'm starting to lean towards the idea that the VAR should watch constantly and tell them when they're wrong.

[dickos1]

I'm not sure they have to refer to it, if the video ref see he's made an error then they tell him.
That's what they said on the bbc after the game 

[GazLaz]

I thought Willian was going down well before any contact. I can see why the ref didn’t give it.

[Pancho Regan]

I thought Willian was going down well before any contact. I can see why the ref didn’t give it.

Same here, I thought Willian was diving over the defender's legs before there was contact. I think the ref got the key decisions right.
Just shows how opinions can differ!

[dickos1]

Exactly
Should only be used for factual events
The Norwich defender who made the tackle is on the radio this morning saying it was a penalty

[GazLaz]

I thought Willian was going down well before any contact. I can see why the ref didn’t give it.

Same here, I thought Willian was diving over the defender's legs before there was contact. I think the ref got the key decisions right.
Just shows how opinions can differ!

The fact opinions differ on the matter shows the decision shouldn’t have been overturned and VAR was used correctly. It’s there to eliminate clear and obvious errors.

[GazLaz]

Exactly
Should only be used for factual events
The Norwich defender who made the tackle is on the radio this morning saying it was a penalty

He thinks it was a penalty because there was contact, Willian instigated the contact for me.

[dickos1]

Letter of the law states if any contact
Players have been leaving their leg there for decades

[IDM]

Contact initiated by the defender is a foul yes, but when the forward flicks his leg towards the defender, who hasn't "tripped or attempted to trip" the forward, and there is contact, that should not be a foul.

[Pancho Regan]

The Norwich defender who made the tackle is on the radio this morning saying it was a penalty

Fair enough, can't argue with that then.
But as you say, VAR should be limited in terms of which incidents it is used for.

[dickos1]

If he's falling before contact happens it doesn't mean it's a dive.
He could just be anticipating the foul coming in

[Filo]

If he's falling before contact happens it doesn't mean it's a dive.
He could just be anticipating the foul coming in

Which is a pre meditated dive

[GazLaz]

If he's falling before contact happens it doesn't mean it's a dive.
He could just be anticipating the foul coming in

He’s not making a natural movement then is he when the contact comes. I’m pretty sure the laws state players have to be “impeded” by contact. The contact last night didn’t impede him as he was throwing himself to the floor and not going for the ball. If he was actively going for the ball would he have caught him, impossible to know, and you can’t presume when giving decisions. The referee had s great game for me.

[Pancho Regan]

I thought the ref had a good game too. He stuck to his guns and made some brave decisions in my opinion.

Only when refs continue to get really tough on 'simulation' will players start to think twice before cheating.

[IDM]

Let's look at the 3 incidents of "diving".

The first, Pedro's , a shocking and obvious dive.  That is clear cheating and the ref got it right, can only give a yellow card but ideally ought to be a red.

The second, Willian, is he already going down or is he just jumping over the challenge, which ends in contact?  Debatable if it is a penalty, some say it is because of contact.  However my opinion only may be no penalty, but also no yellow card for diving.

The 3rd one, Morata (?) there's a slight touch on the shoulder, and he goes down.  How is a tug on the shoulder an attempt to play the ball?  Again, seen them given - could also have been no penalty but no booking.

The second yellows for the Chelsea players, they only have themselves to blame..

[Donnywolf]

I would just like to see (over and above VAR)

A Report/Score/Rating by the Referees Assessor published publicly for every game Played. I have seen some (and will search again) and they could be quite useful

Who knows - DF is to be sanctioned by the FA for his unfortunate choice of words at the weekend - yet there in a dusty cupboard might be an Assessors Report giving Mr Haines the equivalent of 2 out of 10

It does not make what DF said "right" and it does not vindicate it but I am quite convinced the Assessor holds the key. If he scored Haines highly then there is something wrong with the system. Whereas if he scored him very lowly then there is something wrong with the system

Here is an example from a Lower League Match - so there must be other examples. Wonder if we can get Saturdays via Freedom of information means . Anyone ?

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/referee-assessors-report-1058290

[selby]

  I thought that a foul had to be deemed intentional by the referee, therefore I can see why the Willian one was not given.
  The other one was pulling/holding and nowhere in the laws does it say a little pull or a hard pull and we have seen them given, although I think the Referee went on the fact he went to ground with a dive after the event or after he had got goal side of the defender.
   Two hard ones open to interpretation, as I said some time ago on here, the teams that will suffer are the top teams, they get  in the box a lot more, and are used to being awarded the close calls.

[bobjimwilly]

and if a penalty decision is too close to call, the ref has to give it in the defenders favour i.e. no peno

[DMnumber4]

Do you think that the presence of VAR affects how the players play the game?

From what I saw, they were appealing every decision to be reviewed. Hence more complaints to the referee from all and sundry and less playing to the whistle.

[Donnywolf]

Personally yes - and that's why I agreed with someone who pointed out it should be like Tennis with x number of challenges

Get it right and keep the challenge

[dickos1]

If he's falling before contact happens it doesn't mean it's a dive.
He could just be anticipating the foul coming in

Which is a pre meditated dive

Not really
More getting out of the way,
He's a better man than me if he can make a conscious decision to dive in half a second

[RoversAlias]

Eh? People make the decision to dive in half a second all the time, we see it weekly all over football!

I have a great suggestion to Willian of how he can "get out of the way". You jump with your feet over the outstretched defender's leg and keep on running. That's how every honest footballer should approach the game. I don't recall leaving your legs dragging as low as you can to ensure contact being a very good way to get out of the way of anything.

[IDM]

If he's falling before contact happens it doesn't mean it's a dive.
He could just be anticipating the foul coming in

Which is a pre meditated dive

Not really
More getting out of the way,
He's a better man than me if he can make a conscious decision to dive in half a second

Therein there is doubt - not cheating like Pedro.  Therefore my conclusion was Willian shouldn't have been booked, even if  no penalty wasn't given.

There will always be physical contact - it isn't a foul or a dive, every time..

[Bristol Red Rover]

Personally yes - and that's why I agreed with someone who pointed out it should be like Tennis with x number of challenges

Get it right and keep the challenge

I'd hate this. The ref is the ref and should be respected for that. It's the ref's call to have a VAR. Persistent nagging of the ref to give a VAR should be a bookable offence.

Saying that, full time refs are needed throughout the league and stricter assessments given plus them being dropped as and when.

Maybe giving the VAR permission to review situations as seen fit and message the ref as to anything missed might be helpful too. Keeping the game flowing is the biggest factor here.

[DMnumber4]

I'm afraid BRR, the VAR is shaping up to just highlight the calls that the referee has made wrong, thus questioning their judgement. Players are forever probing before this and even more so now. (Agree it should be a yellow card for any sort of dissent though)

This is in stark contrast to cricket where the presence of DRS has actually increased the accuracy of on-field decisions by the umpires to well over 95%.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I can see that, and a sad state of affairs that is

Teamwork between the VAR and ref is the key, and giving them the power, between them. If there's one thing I really dislike about footy it's the appealing for things. Players and managers seem to have the maturity of a pea when it comes to this. They really should grow the feck up or have a slap.

[albie]

There is a tendency to see all incidents as an either/or choice, when it can sometimes be both.

Morata is a good example.

He was being held by the defender before he went to ground. Anywhere outside the box that is a free kick, so a penalty should be given for that foul.

Morata then throws himself to the ground without reason. Verdict...yellow for Morata for exaggeration.

So both decisions are not in conflict, because they deal with different offences, although they happened in quick order.