Leaving the EU (I never use the B word if I can avoid it)

[Boomstick]

I’ve a list as long as your arm and a lot longer than your attention. But I’m not interested in convincing you because you don’t engage with facts.

So I’m playing it your way. My opinion is that Theresa May has spent a career endearing herself to the Tory Party membership by engaging in dog whistle racism. That’s my opinion. I don’t have to justify it to you.

seems it's you that refuses to deal with facts.
still waiting for this list of things that may said, that was racist.

tick tock .....

Sending "go home" vans around areas that had a high number of ethnic minorities based on f**k all.
Deporting black British citizens to the Caribbean to meet deportation targets. Many people don't know that the Windrush actually made several stops on its way to Britain and many passengers were white. Relatively few of these white folk got deported under May's instruction though, which is why people think the Windrush was just full of people from the Caribbean.
Told lies about an immigrant who couldn't be deported because they had a cat, which she repeated even though she knew it to be false.

This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure a decent Google will throw up a few more.

links please.
although I do know that those 'go home vans' (they didn't even say that) were in reference to illegal immigrants only.

still waiting for the proof of anything remotely racist.
 not even in the same league as Corbyn.

[MachoMadness]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/31/go-home-vans-11-leave-britain
"Go home or face arrest". Seems pretty cut and dried to me. They might have been "aimed" at illegal immigrants, but they were driven around areas with high numbers of ethnic minorities. What sort of message do you think that sends to people who are here legally, or even British people who's parents or grandparents were immigrants?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15171980
The "can't be deported because he has a cat" story.

I'm not going to bother with the Windrush stuff, just Google Windrush and take your pick. It was only in the news a few months back.

What were you expecting? Video footage of her with a burning cross and a white hood? There are other forms of racism that are dangerous, especially when they're coming from the government.

As for your last point, I'll just leave this image here.

[hoolahoop]

That's Jezza isn't it , I couldn't believe that was still going on until 1994

[bpoolrover]

Shame he won't sort out the Jewish issue

[BillyStubbsTears]

Boomstick

Frustrating isn't it? When someone just gives an opinion and doesn't back it up with anything substantive. Welcome to my world.

[wilts rover]

I’ve a list as long as your arm and a lot longer than your attention. But I’m not interested in convincing you because you don’t engage with facts.

So I’m playing it your way. My opinion is that Theresa May has spent a career endearing herself to the Tory Party membership by engaging in dog whistle racism. That’s my opinion. I don’t have to justify it to you.

seems it's you that refuses to deal with facts.
still waiting for this list of things that may said, that was racist.

tick tock .....

Sending "go home" vans around areas that had a high number of ethnic minorities based on f**k all.
Deporting black British citizens to the Caribbean to meet deportation targets. Many people don't know that the Windrush actually made several stops on its way to Britain and many passengers were white. Relatively few of these white folk got deported under May's instruction though, which is why people think the Windrush was just full of people from the Caribbean.
Told lies about an immigrant who couldn't be deported because they had a cat, which she repeated even though she knew it to be false.

This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure a decent Google will throw up a few more.

links please.
although I do know that those 'go home vans' (they didn't even say that) were in reference to illegal immigrants only.

still waiting for the proof of anything remotely racist.
 not even in the same league as Corbyn.

The 2014 Immigration Act and its consequences

https://www.facebook.com/LBC/videos/james-obrien-on-theresa-may-and-racism/10156054880771558/

[BillyStubbsTears]

Lads, lads, lads. What's with all this evidence? I thought we were dealing with opinions, not evidence.

[wilts rover]

The EU engineered a regime change in Ukraine which has led to the current problems.

The first Pan-European army of modern times was the Waffen SS.

Ignoring the fact that the Waffen SS were not an army (they didn't fight as one force together but as smaller units alone or alongside the Werhrmacht), if you are taking 'modern times' as post the Napoleonic Wars then surely the first pan-European army was that of the Habsburg Empire?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Lads, lads, lads. What's with all this evidence? I thought we were dealing with opinions, not evidence.

That's just your opinion!

[Glyn_Wigley]

The EU engineered a regime change in Ukraine which has led to the current problems.

The first Pan-European army of modern times was the Waffen SS.

Ignoring the fact that the Waffen SS were not an army (they didn't fight as one force together but as smaller units alone or alongside the Werhrmacht), if you are taking 'modern times' as post the Napoleonic Wars then surely the first pan-European army was that of the Habsburg Empire?

I think someone's forgotten the debt we owe the Prussians...without them we wouldn't have beaten Napoleon!

[hoolahoop]

Lads, lads, lads. What's with all this evidence? I thought we were dealing with opinions, not evidence.

Evidence is like buses you don't see one for ages - then they come all at once. Haha

[hoolahoop]

The EU engineered a regime change in Ukraine which has led to the current problems.

The first Pan-European army of modern times was the Waffen SS.

Ignoring the fact that the Waffen SS were not an army (they didn't fight as one force together but as smaller units alone or alongside the Werhrmacht), if you are taking 'modern times' as post the Napoleonic Wars then surely the first pan-European army was that of the Habsburg Empire?

I think someone's forgotten the debt we owe the Prussians...without them we wouldn't have beaten Napoleon!

Massive debt without Blücher and his troops the battle would have been lost . The strangest thing ever when I was young was a visit to Les Invalides and Napolean's tomb only to see an exhibition about how the great man almost if not actually won that battle. Seems the French believed the man was nigh on invincible and he was . We also forget that our soldiers fought alongside the Dutch - it was an Anglo- Dutch army lead by the great man .

[hoolahoop]

Remain 37..........56.9 %


Leave    28..........43.1 %


Movement due to new voters - it could be argued that many people who don't actually vote are happy to maintain the status quo. This is borne out so far  with 5/6 voters choosing to vote Remain if there was a 2nd Referendum.

So far the 8/6 Remain / Leave of voters of either voters switching allegiance or deciding to vote for the 1st time suggests just a small change 4 : 3

What pollsters can't distinguish is quite how many of the 12,000,000 would vote this time and in what ratio and how many would switch allegiances amongst the 33,000,000 who voted the 1st time . Difficult to account for voter apathy etc .
Who would be a pollster  - even on our small sample

[bpoolrover]

What's surprising on this vote isn't more people have changed there vote to leave than stay, I wonder what the reason for that is?

[SydneyRover]

What's surprising on this vote isn't more people have changed there vote to leave than stay, I wonder what the reason for that is?

There may be an embarrassment factor in play, maybe they didnt want to admit they voted leave without the facts or that they were told lies?.

[Bentley Bullet]

SO why aren't those who changed their vote from remain to leave even more embarrassed by joining the 'fools' in the knowledge of all the facts and all the lies?

[i_ateallthepies]

Because you've made such a compelling, crystal clear case for Leave, BB?

[Sprotyrover]

48 % of the British troops at Waterloo were Irish, only 16% were English, the remainder being Scots and Welsh.

[Bentley Bullet]

Because you've made such a compelling, crystal clear case for Leave, BB?

And here's me thinking it was already a crystal clear case that we were all already leavers!

[hoolahoop]

SO why aren't those who changed their vote from remain to leave even more embarrassed by joining the 'fools' in the knowledge of all the facts and all the lies?

BB can we drop the ' fools ' stuff now , there's all sorts of daft abuse going on from both camps on here, fb, Twitter and generally. Brexiteers playing the ' mock ' paranoia card has run it's course now . We both know that there has been some mother fecking shite thrown at both camps .

To answer your question , perhaps it's because they just dont think ' the facts ' affect them

[hoolahoop]

48 % of the British troops at Waterloo were Irish, only 16% were English, the remainder being Scots and Welsh.

Only 25,000 out of the 68,000 commanded by the Iron Duke were British. Interestingly and bear in mind there were a further 50,000 Germans who joined the battle means only c. 30 % of the troops at the battle were British.

Many consider " it a very German victory " - however it must be considered a European victory bearing in mind there were English,Irish, Scots, Welsh, Walloons, Dutch, Flemish and of course nearly 60,000 Germans.

[Not Now Kato]

SO why aren't those who changed their vote from remain to leave even more embarrassed by joining the 'fools' in the knowledge of all the facts and all the lies?

 
Perhaps they read the Daily Mail et al and believe the lies that the EU are being unreasonable and are holding us to ransome?
 
I've heard many  people say such. Selby for instance?

[wesisback]

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/brexitometer-shows-that-doncaster-people-have-changed-their-minds-about-brexit-1-9264949/amp?__twitter_impression=true

[SydneyRover]

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/brexitometer-shows-that-doncaster-people-have-changed-their-minds-about-brexit-1-9264949/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Thanks Wes, I knew we could rely on good old south yorkshire common sense to prevail.

[hoolahoop]

Christ Wes that is an overwhelming thumbs down for Brexit- shame I didn't know Femi was in town. Hes a very bright lad who has been running rings round Farage etc ,they mustwant to run a mile when he rings them up on their radio programmes.

[Bentley Bullet]

Hoola, I don't read that as an overwhelming thumbs down for Brexit.

'Many of those interviewed expressed a desire for a "people’s vote" based on how the government should be negotiating leave terms', with the inclusion of an option to remain. That is hardly overwhelming.

It does suggest, however, that there would be a swing to the remain side with people changing their minds, not least because of the deep divisions caused by the original vote.

With that in mind, it does seem strange how the poll in this little forum community has gone in favour of more people switching their original vote to leave than to remain, despite the imbalance of more active remainers on this forum.

This reinforces my claim that the attitude of some of them has been counterproductive.

[SydneyRover]

With that in mind, it does seem strange how the poll in this little forum community has gone in favour of more people switching their original vote to leave than to remain, despite the imbalance of more active remainers on this forum.

Maybe it shows that people outside this forum more readily accept the facts and truth surrounding the leave campaign and the situation we are faced with now, whereas those on the forum appear to be trying to score points without accepting reality, just sayin'

[BillyStubbsTears]

It’s fascinating. I always thought the snowflakes who got upset by hard discussion were supposed to be the namby pamby liberal types. But here we are saying that people are supporting Brexit for no other reason than that the other side are being horrid to them.

[Bentley Bullet]

Who said namby pamby liberal snowflakes got upset by hard discussion? They love hard discussion! They can't resist showing off their pretentious, holier than thou, do good attitude. They love calling anyone who disagrees with them anything from a dipshit to a racist.

[BillyStubbsTears]

If you’re pointing that at me B.B., I apologised immediately for one (although that was aimed at someone who has called people “melts”, “f**king childish” and other things and never once apologised but there you go) and have never used the other.