Brexit deal

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB.

The financial irregularities in the 2016 campaign are a lot more than just "allegations". The EC has already fined both Vote Leave and Leave.EU.  Darren grimes of Vote leave has already been convicted. The question remaining is what on earth the Met police are going to do with the rest of the mountain of evidence that they have. It's not encouraging that they are saying "political sensitivities" are a reason that they haven't come to a conclusion yet. Like people with prominent political positions should be treated differently?

The point here is that if there is evidence of serious, criminal action which during an election campaign as crucial as this one, the Met should be running at 100mph to arrive at a conclusion. Whichever way. The outcome of that process is fundamentally important to the way in which we should judge the 2016 vote. If it IS the case that even more serious crimes were committed by the Leave side than we already know of, there is no case whatsoever for anyone claiming that the result of that vote is sacrosanct.

[Bentley Bullet]

Come off it BST. You're kidding nobody. If the alleged Peterborough voting scandal had been brought on the Brexit party you'd have started a new thread about it before you'd finished your orgasm.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB.

If you start from the position that the person you are talking to is a mendacious hypoctrite, you'll convince yourself that there is mendacious hypocrisy in everything they say. And you'll ignore what they actually say, preferring to convince yourself that what they really believe is what you want them to believe. Good luck with that outlook.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST. That looks to me like your perception of Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson and any other leading Brexiter.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

So you ignore the facts I present to support my assessment?

[Bentley Bullet]

My point is it's you who is selective in choosing to ignore stories that don't support your agenda.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Am I?

Ok. Now I understand why you ignore evidence and just chuck childish insults around. Makes sense to do that I suppose if you work on the assumption that everyone else ignores what they don't like.

For the record, my take is that if there is evidence that ANYONE has committed criminal offences in an election, they should be investigated and prosecuted. And consideration should be given to re-running the vote if it is sufficiently serious evidence.

[Bentley Bullet]

I reckon there always rules broken, lies told before and promises not kept after every election, and if we had a revote every time it happened we'd never get a vote carried.

Crimes like burning votes are another, much more serious matter, though.

[wilts rover]

How do you burn votes?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB
No one's talking about promises broken on this topic. It's about laws of the land being broken. Criminal activity.

There are black and white laws about not using foreign money in election campaigns. Because foreigners are not likely to have the interests of Britain first and foremost if they pour money into election campaigns. So it is outlawed. Illegal. Criminal to facilitate that.

THAT is the accusation that Leave.EU are facing.

If there is evidence beyond reasonable doubt that ballot papers which should have been counted, have been burned in Peterborough, then someone should go down for a very long time and the vote should be re-run. I say that because I think it's vitally important that we have faith and confidence in electoral processes, and that they are not open to abuse by criminals.

[Bentley Bullet]

Let's be honest for once BST, your eagerness to learn about Brexit criminality probably matches that of the group of Remainers who represent The Electoral Commission in their determination to find it.

Stop Brexit by any means, eh!

[SydneyRover]

BB.

If you start from the position that the person you are talking to is a mendacious hypoctrite, you'll convince yourself that there is mendacious hypocrisy in everything they say. And you'll ignore what they actually say, preferring to convince yourself that what they really believe is what you want them to believe. Good luck with that outlook.

There is one aspect that is being overlooked in the Peterborough investigation BST is that no one has yet said that the allegations advantaged any particular candidate so unless any evidence is circulating on social media we don't know. But what we do know is Farage is jumping up and down in the pram shouting we wuz robbed and his trump-like followers are falling in behind.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sydney.

That's fine. There's an investigation going on by the police. They are moving fast. They've already announced that there's no evidence to support 3 of the allegations. If there's evidence for the others, it'll come out.

[Bentley Bullet]

Aye, let the law sort it lads! Innocent until proved guilty and all that! Meanwhile, it's unfair for us media folk to make any further comments! After all, we are not judge and jury! Let's be grown up about it! Damn those despicable people who exploit such headlines in order to gain political smarty points!

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB
If you are aware of any detail of the evidence supporting these allegations, tell us. Then we can discuss it.

As Sydney says, the stuff I've seen doesn't even say who the allegations are against, or who made them. So it's a bit hard to discuss them in any detail.

[Bentley Bullet]

Well, Sydney doesn't read his own bible properly then. The Guardian link he posted on the 'Posh rotten borough' thread mentions it's the Asian community under scrutiny with the obvious racist response from the Labour party.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Cheers BB. Do we know what they are alleged to have done, who alleged it, what the evidence is etc?

[Bentley Bullet]

Why don't you pretend it's the Brexit side being investigated and read it yourself?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Thanks for the pointer BB.

Very useful. So it's allegations on social media. If they have genuine evidence, I'll look forward to the prosecutions. Genuinely.

Sounds like Farage has evidence because he's quoted as saying "We’ve seen so many cases now where again and again we find – particularly in the inner cities – postal voting is producing the wrong results." He must have some pretty solid evidence to make a claim like that, and I'm sure he'll be passing it onto the police for their investigation.

[Not Now Kato]

At least there's prospects of promising new trade deals after Brexit
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRhlRM6rYck
 
The pregnant pause just before the applause says it all.  Though I still can't work out why they actually applauded.
 

[Herbert Anchovy]

I’m surprised by this. Nick Clegg has announced that there is “absolutely no evidence” that Russia influenced the Brexit vote using Facebook.

Considering the claims and counter claims of Russian meddling in the vote in certain sections of the media AND who it is making the statement, this is pretty remarkable.

I wonder if anyone who’d made the claims that FB was used by Russia to influence the vote will now stand corrected?

Of course, that’s not to say they didn’t use any other means bar FB

[SydneyRover]

I’m surprised by this. Nick Clegg has announced that there is “absolutely no evidence” that Russia influenced the Brexit vote using Facebook.

Considering the claims and counter claims of Russian meddling in the vote in certain sections of the media AND who it is making the statement, this is pretty remarkable.

I wonder if anyone who’d made the claims that FB was used by Russia to influence the vote will now stand corrected?

Of course, that’s not to say they didn’t use any other means bar FB

I think there maybe quite a bit more to say about this HA, but at the moment we have to take it at face value.

''There are ongoing investigations into Russian interference in the 2016 Brexit referendum[1] being undertaken by the UK Electoral Commission, the UK Parliament's Culture Select Committee, and the United States Senate, on alleged Russian interference in the "Brexit" referendum of 23 June 2016.[2] This has raised questions over the legal validity of the referendum.[3]
Contents''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_Brexit_referendum

[SydneyRover]

Meanwhile yet another damning report about the dangers and risks of Brexit, and of course nothing positive ever comes out.

''UK finances forecast to suffer under most forms of Brexit

Cost of leaving EU will also impede new policy initiatives, thinktank’s report says''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/24/uk-finances-forecast-suffer-under-most-forms-brexit

[scawsby steve]

I’m surprised by this. Nick Clegg has announced that there is “absolutely no evidence” that Russia influenced the Brexit vote using Facebook.

Considering the claims and counter claims of Russian meddling in the vote in certain sections of the media AND who it is making the statement, this is pretty remarkable.

I wonder if anyone who’d made the claims that FB was used by Russia to influence the vote will now stand corrected?

Of course, that’s not to say they didn’t use any other means bar FB

Thanks for that Herbert. I never thought I'd ever welcome anything said by Nick Clegg.

I know one or two on here who'll feel a bit embarrassed by that.

[MachoMadness]

Facebook employee says Facebook didn't do anything wrong. Hmm.

Even then, the inquiry he mentions only looked at Russian bots, fake accounts, and fake pages. It mentions nothing about the very real people that funnelled foreign money through organisations like Leave.Eu and individuals like Arron Banks. I wonder why Facebook, who are on a PR offensive anyway, would commission a flawed internal investigation that's presented by a serial bullshit artist like Clegg in a way that omits several key facts and makes it seem like they did nothing wrong?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I’m surprised by this. Nick Clegg has announced that there is “absolutely no evidence” that Russia influenced the Brexit vote using Facebook.

Considering the claims and counter claims of Russian meddling in the vote in certain sections of the media AND who it is making the statement, this is pretty remarkable.

I wonder if anyone who’d made the claims that FB was used by Russia to influence the vote will now stand corrected?

Of course, that’s not to say they didn’t use any other means bar FB

Thanks for that Herbert. I never thought I'd ever welcome anything said by Nick Clegg.

I know one or two on here who'll feel a bit embarrassed by that.

Not sure who the one or two that you're referring to are SS. Care to point out where anyone on here has said anything that Clegg has contradicted?

[SydneyRover]

Looks like Farage thinks Boris is a wibble wobble, doesn't know what he stands for.

''Boris Johnson does speak to Steve Bannon, says Nigel Farage

Brexit party leader’s comments increase pressure on No 10 frontrunner to address claims''

''At the same event on Monday, Farage said he would back Johnson as prime minister, but only if he pushed for a no-deal Brexit on 31 October, saying he did not trust him to do this''

 “He’ll have my support if he does the right thing. But I don’t know what he’s going to do,” Farage said. “I’d love to know who the real Boris Johnson is, I’d love to know what he really, really, truly believes. Our attitude, as the Brexit party, is why would we trust anybody?”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/24/nigel-farage-deal-tories-ensure-no-deal-brexit-boris-johnson

[Not Now Kato]

Someone pointed out on Twitter the parallel between Brexit and the handling of Friday morning's little spot of Domestic Violence. Have a blazing row in your own house - then blame the neighbours.

[Colemans Left Hook]

Looks like Farage thinks Boris is a wibble wobble, doesn't know what he stands for.

''Boris Johnson does speak to Steve Bannon, says Nigel Farage

Brexit party leader’s comments increase pressure on No 10 frontrunner to address claims''

''At the same event on Monday, Farage said he would back Johnson as prime minister, but only if he pushed for a no-deal Brexit on 31 October, saying he did not trust him to do this''

 “He’ll have my support if he does the right thing. But I don’t know what he’s going to do,” Farage said. “I’d love to know who the real Boris Johnson is, I’d love to know what he really, really, truly believes. Our attitude, as the Brexit party, is why would we trust anybody?”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/24/nigel-farage-deal-tories-ensure-no-deal-brexit-boris-johnson

I thought i'd just pop in and see what was going on  .......

It must have been about four years ago since I predicted "one day " Boris and Farage would finally discover their true vocations in life meaning be captains of some news related quiz show etc . I'll come back to this post in ten years.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So once again Corbyn has blocked Labour taking a stance on Ref2. Apparently McDonnell said at the Shadow Cabinet meeting today that Labour's approach on this was a slow motion car crash. So that'll be HIM on the Momentum hate list and called a Blairite Neo-Liberal.

Word is apparently that Corbyn's said he needs time to bring "The Movement" with him to a Ref2 position. Which is, frankly, astonishing, given that the overwhelming majority of The Movement want Ref2 to be Labour policy. Maybe by "The Movement" he just means the 4Ms?