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I assume that the U.K. was party to the negotiations on these treaties so why can’t we just ‘ copy and paste’ them as we have done with the trade deal with Japan?
Quote from: Bentley Bullet on December 05, 2018, 03:39:02 pmI thought we could leave without conditions. I thought the whole reason for leaving was to rid ourselves of conditions. Surely I wasn't alone in thinking this?Same here BB. I voted to leave and, while I knew we’d have to pay something, I thought that we’d then just walk away. My suspicions were raised when, immediately after the result was announced, the EU forbid any other member state to begin trade talks with the UK, despite a number of countries wanting to begin their own trade negotiations immediately.
I thought we could leave without conditions. I thought the whole reason for leaving was to rid ourselves of conditions. Surely I wasn't alone in thinking this?
Quote from: wilts rover on December 05, 2018, 06:29:50 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on December 05, 2018, 04:08:39 pmQuote from: Bentley Bullet on December 05, 2018, 03:39:02 pmI thought we could leave without conditions. I thought the whole reason for leaving was to rid ourselves of conditions. Surely I wasn't alone in thinking this?EXACTLY! It's not hard to understand is it?And that I am afraid is where you bought the lie. When/if we leave the EU we dont actually leave one thing. What we actually will do is break 759 international treaties that we have negotiated as an EU member and we will not now be a party to as an non-EU member. Unless and until we re-negotiate them as an individual member. I posted a link on the other thread to a fascinating talk I attended recently about this.These treaties cover vast swathes of our life on topics such as:aircraft movementuse of the channel tunnelmovement of radioactive material (x-ray plates and power station fuel)movement of medicinesmovement of animalsaccess to fishing groundslanding of fishrecognition of driving licencesaccess to criminal databasesLeaving the EU without a deal doesn't mean trading on WTO terms, it means normal life will stop.https://www.ft.com/content/f1435a8e-372b-11e7-bce4-9023f8c0fd2eI assume that the U.K. was party to the negotiations on these treaties so why can’t we just ‘ copy and paste’ them as we have done with the trade deal with Japan?
Quote from: Axholme Lion on December 05, 2018, 04:08:39 pmQuote from: Bentley Bullet on December 05, 2018, 03:39:02 pmI thought we could leave without conditions. I thought the whole reason for leaving was to rid ourselves of conditions. Surely I wasn't alone in thinking this?EXACTLY! It's not hard to understand is it?And that I am afraid is where you bought the lie. When/if we leave the EU we dont actually leave one thing. What we actually will do is break 759 international treaties that we have negotiated as an EU member and we will not now be a party to as an non-EU member. Unless and until we re-negotiate them as an individual member. I posted a link on the other thread to a fascinating talk I attended recently about this.These treaties cover vast swathes of our life on topics such as:aircraft movementuse of the channel tunnelmovement of radioactive material (x-ray plates and power station fuel)movement of medicinesmovement of animalsaccess to fishing groundslanding of fishrecognition of driving licencesaccess to criminal databasesLeaving the EU without a deal doesn't mean trading on WTO terms, it means normal life will stop.https://www.ft.com/content/f1435a8e-372b-11e7-bce4-9023f8c0fd2e
Quote from: Bentley Bullet on December 05, 2018, 03:39:02 pmI thought we could leave without conditions. I thought the whole reason for leaving was to rid ourselves of conditions. Surely I wasn't alone in thinking this?EXACTLY! It's not hard to understand is it?
Quote from: Herbert Anchovy on December 05, 2018, 06:33:26 pmQuote from: wilts rover on December 05, 2018, 06:29:50 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on December 05, 2018, 04:08:39 pmQuote from: Bentley Bullet on December 05, 2018, 03:39:02 pmI thought we could leave without conditions. I thought the whole reason for leaving was to rid ourselves of conditions. Surely I wasn't alone in thinking this?EXACTLY! It's not hard to understand is it?And that I am afraid is where you bought the lie. When/if we leave the EU we dont actually leave one thing. What we actually will do is break 759 international treaties that we have negotiated as an EU member and we will not now be a party to as an non-EU member. Unless and until we re-negotiate them as an individual member. I posted a link on the other thread to a fascinating talk I attended recently about this.These treaties cover vast swathes of our life on topics such as:aircraft movementuse of the channel tunnelmovement of radioactive material (x-ray plates and power station fuel)movement of medicinesmovement of animalsaccess to fishing groundslanding of fishrecognition of driving licencesaccess to criminal databasesLeaving the EU without a deal doesn't mean trading on WTO terms, it means normal life will stop.https://www.ft.com/content/f1435a8e-372b-11e7-bce4-9023f8c0fd2eI assume that the U.K. was party to the negotiations on these treaties so why can’t we just ‘ copy and paste’ them as we have done with the trade deal with Japan? Because we'd need the other side to do so as well? And that's in the best circumstances.
BST, I don't think the leavers voted to remain in the bar, cheap beer or not. They wanted to leave without conditions.
I think there's something lost in translation there HA. Fox has been negotiating for two years.
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on December 05, 2018, 06:48:46 pmQuote from: Herbert Anchovy on December 05, 2018, 06:33:26 pmQuote from: wilts rover on December 05, 2018, 06:29:50 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on December 05, 2018, 04:08:39 pmQuote from: Bentley Bullet on December 05, 2018, 03:39:02 pmI thought we could leave without conditions. I thought the whole reason for leaving was to rid ourselves of conditions. Surely I wasn't alone in thinking this?EXACTLY! It's not hard to understand is it?And that I am afraid is where you bought the lie. When/if we leave the EU we dont actually leave one thing. What we actually will do is break 759 international treaties that we have negotiated as an EU member and we will not now be a party to as an non-EU member. Unless and until we re-negotiate them as an individual member. I posted a link on the other thread to a fascinating talk I attended recently about this.These treaties cover vast swathes of our life on topics such as:aircraft movementuse of the channel tunnelmovement of radioactive material (x-ray plates and power station fuel)movement of medicinesmovement of animalsaccess to fishing groundslanding of fishrecognition of driving licencesaccess to criminal databasesLeaving the EU without a deal doesn't mean trading on WTO terms, it means normal life will stop.https://www.ft.com/content/f1435a8e-372b-11e7-bce4-9023f8c0fd2eI assume that the U.K. was party to the negotiations on these treaties so why can’t we just ‘ copy and paste’ them as we have done with the trade deal with Japan? Because we'd need the other side to do so as well? And that's in the best circumstances.I don't do emojis, but if I did, there'd be one of someone banging their head against a wall here. HADo you really think every country in the world is going to give us (a state of 65million people with a GDP of about £2trn) exactly the same terms that they gave the EU (450million, £12trn)?Don't you think they might just probe our weak points and look for better terms for themselves?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on December 05, 2018, 06:48:22 pmI think there's something lost in translation there HA. Fox has been negotiating for two years.The evidence is there for you Billy. A direct quote from the EU trade commissioner. If we have been negotiating then it’s clearly despite the EU regulations and not because of them
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on December 05, 2018, 06:55:39 pmQuote from: Glyn_Wigley on December 05, 2018, 06:48:46 pmQuote from: Herbert Anchovy on December 05, 2018, 06:33:26 pmQuote from: wilts rover on December 05, 2018, 06:29:50 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on December 05, 2018, 04:08:39 pmQuote from: Bentley Bullet on December 05, 2018, 03:39:02 pmI thought we could leave without conditions. I thought the whole reason for leaving was to rid ourselves of conditions. Surely I wasn't alone in thinking this?EXACTLY! It's not hard to understand is it?And that I am afraid is where you bought the lie. When/if we leave the EU we dont actually leave one thing. What we actually will do is break 759 international treaties that we have negotiated as an EU member and we will not now be a party to as an non-EU member. Unless and until we re-negotiate them as an individual member. I posted a link on the other thread to a fascinating talk I attended recently about this.These treaties cover vast swathes of our life on topics such as:aircraft movementuse of the channel tunnelmovement of radioactive material (x-ray plates and power station fuel)movement of medicinesmovement of animalsaccess to fishing groundslanding of fishrecognition of driving licencesaccess to criminal databasesLeaving the EU without a deal doesn't mean trading on WTO terms, it means normal life will stop.https://www.ft.com/content/f1435a8e-372b-11e7-bce4-9023f8c0fd2eI assume that the U.K. was party to the negotiations on these treaties so why can’t we just ‘ copy and paste’ them as we have done with the trade deal with Japan? Because we'd need the other side to do so as well? And that's in the best circumstances.I don't do emojis, but if I did, there'd be one of someone banging their head against a wall here. HADo you really think every country in the world is going to give us (a state of 65million people with a GDP of about £2trn) exactly the same terms that they gave the EU (450million, £12trn)?Don't you think they might just probe our weak points and look for better terms for themselves?Billy, Your condescending, patronising and sometimes disrespectful attitude to any opinion that contradicts yours has worn thin. Do you not think that I read your posts and ‘want to bang my head against the wall?’ Of course I do, regularly. However, I respect yours and other people’s opinions. You may be right or I may be right but do you know what? Nobody, not even you has a real clue what’s going to happen. Yet, you seem unable to grasp this fact and sometimes, just occasionally Billy, when someone says something that you don’t like/agree with you come across as a self centred know all. Please, don’t be a smart arse with me. This is one debate that I’m checking out of
HAI apologise if I've come across as a smart arse. If I have, it's the result of several years of engaging with this type of argument on a issue that is going to make this country a much worse place for my kids to grow up in. Misinformed or misinterpreted arguments about what the EU does or doesn't do. About what our position in the world will be. I've tried discussing this politely for a long time and rarely got engagement. So yeah, I'm letting my frustration boil over. Because I'm seeing no engagement from Leave supporters about the extent of the crisis that they have topped us into. Just repeats over and over and over again of zombie arguments. Ones that have been countered over and over and over again and which ought to have been killed off, but which keep being ressurected. I was politely pointing out 2 years ago that there was no way that we could walk away from the EU without screwing up the Irish border issue. I was called a Remoaner. I was called a Project Fear monger. I was called a condescending t**t. And here we are, two years later with people still insisting we should walk away and still not engaging with the facts. So, to be honest, I'm tired of being polite.