Flint

[hoolahoop]

Not again - the " I hate Clegg " rant. Surely we are not going through all this again with you 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hoola

I said at the time that Austerity, historically, led to populist reactions. I said that yon idiot had no idea what genie he was letting out of the bottle.

Look back over the past decade. Was I wrong?

[Donnywolf]

Austerity has been an appalling catalogue that has plunged the UK into a crisis initially prompted by the Banking crisis .... but ... which also fell nicely for the Government to act upon it in a way they saw fit and they have

Doncaster is one of the most disadvantaged region / constituencies (which we could probably have guessed without this weeks statistics) driven down by said austerity

Thats why returning to Flint I am appalled that even for a billisecond that she has thought (of the recent offer from Mrs May) " ah thats a nice offer which will help Donny out - I will take it " and sell her soul for next to nowt after the suffering rank and file people have had to put up with

A better response would have been "shove it where the sun doesnt shine" and surely I cant be the only one that thinks that ?

 

[hoolahoop]

Hoola

I said at the time that Austerity, historically, led to populist reactions. I said that yon idiot had no idea what genie he was letting out of the bottle.

Look back over the past decade. Was I wrong?

Only the way you put it , it's as if the Lib/Dems and Clegg ( being only yon idiot ) came up with this wizard idea of " Austerity " then sat the Tory Party down and told them to implement it .
That NEVER happened like that and we both know it . Yes they might or rather did enable it ( in much the same way as the DUP are currently doing with May) but they certainly weren't the masters of it and to some extent mitigated some of the excesses of it .

Yes they/We wanted Proportional Representation and let's be honest had that have happened ; WE wouldn't be facing the shit we are all in now .

We have both argued against the Tories , austerity , the Referendum, May even Labour/Corbyn together now for 4 years from the same platform and the minute anyone mentions voting for a 3rd or 4th Party ; you load up the machine gun and mow all of us down.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hoola

Yes, we have both argued against Austerity. But it was Clegg who enabled it. That's established fact.

He campaigned against Austerity then "changed his mind" and supported it.

That is the core mistake which put us into this track. He didn't have to do that, but he was an immature, inexperienced kid in an adult's world. He was played and we're where we are now.


I don't get any satisfaction from this, but I predicted all this back in May 2010.

I predicted that Clegg supporting Austerity would lead to a depressed economy, a populist, anti-foreigner reaction, and the collapse of the LDs as a serious political force.

All those things happened and they are all directly due to Clegg's lack of strategic vision.

[i_ateallthepies]

Surely all of the negotiating between the LDs and Tories wasn't left to Clegg alone.  Did the LDs not have other brains working on it?

[BillyStubbsTears]

The negotiations over the coalition deal were conducted by Clegg and David Laws. Laws, you might recall, was the most right wing LD MP. He lasted 3 months as a minister, after having been found fiddling expenses to hide the fact that he was gay and living with his partner.

The entire LD party lost its soul in that couple of weeks. But it was Clegg and Laws who facilitated it.

[albie]

Flinty is now going to take a spanking in court from Thornberry, for "making shit up".
As Thornberry is a Barrister, Flinty should have been a bit more careful before mouthing off on Sky;
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/emily-thornberry-legal-action-labour-mp-caroline-flint-a4314606.html

Probably all about the coming leadership contest, but not really needed Ladies!

[Not Now Kato]

Not only is Flint now facing a court case, she's out of work and looking for a new job - and so is her husband as she employed him.  I really do feel sorry for her.... NOT!
 
Maybe stacking shelves at ASDA would be a better line of work for her.

[Axholme Lion]

Not only is Flint now facing a court case, she's out of work and looking for a new job - and so is her husband as she employed him.  I really do feel sorry for her.... NOT!
 
Maybe stacking shelves at ASDA would be a better line of work for her.

An MP who stood up for her constituents opinions. Although I am not a Labourite, she has my greatest respect.

[Filo]

Not only is Flint now facing a court case, she's out of work and looking for a new job - and so is her husband as she employed him.  I really do feel sorry for her.... NOT!
 
Maybe stacking shelves at ASDA would be a better line of work for her.

They’ll both get redundancy pay

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-50779961

[wing commander]

  That's a interesting read,you forget about the people in the offices who are gone too,their futures lost on something they have no say about, and regardless on how well they do their jobs.Reliant on their mp
  Switching their computers off on election night not knowing whether you are carrying on or making way for someone else..I guess you could argue that's the nature of the job..

[idler]

Nicky Morgan gets a peerage as well.😡

[BobG]

Nooooo?!!! Nicky Morgan?? Surely not? Jesus H Christ. We really are as corrupt as a banana republic these days.

BobG

[Not Now Kato]

Not only is Flint now facing a court case, she's out of work and looking for a new job - and so is her husband as she employed him.  I really do feel sorry for her.... NOT!
 
Maybe stacking shelves at ASDA would be a better line of work for her.

An MP who stood up for her constituents opinions. Although I am not a Labourite, she has my greatest respect.

No she didn't.  She stood up for herself, as do many politicians.  All she was doing was looking to keep her and her husbands well paid jobs by pandering to her electorate instead of looking to their best interests IMO.

[Axholme Lion]

Not only is Flint now facing a court case, she's out of work and looking for a new job - and so is her husband as she employed him.  I really do feel sorry for her.... NOT!
 
Maybe stacking shelves at ASDA would be a better line of work for her.

An MP who stood up for her constituents opinions. Although I am not a Labourite, she has my greatest respect.

No she didn't.  She stood up for herself, as do many politicians.  All she was doing was looking to keep her and her husbands well paid jobs by pandering to her electorate instead of looking to their best interests IMO.

'Pandering to her electorate'. I don't know about you but I expect my MP to do what I voted them in to do, not to go off and do their own thing because 'they know better'.

[Not Now Kato]

Not only is Flint now facing a court case, she's out of work and looking for a new job - and so is her husband as she employed him.  I really do feel sorry for her.... NOT!
 
Maybe stacking shelves at ASDA would be a better line of work for her.

An MP who stood up for her constituents opinions. Although I am not a Labourite, she has my greatest respect.

No she didn't.  She stood up for herself, as do many politicians.  All she was doing was looking to keep her and her husbands well paid jobs by pandering to her electorate instead of looking to their best interests IMO.

'Pandering to her electorate'. I don't know about you but I expect my MP to do what I voted them in to do, not to go off and do their own thing because 'they know better'.

I expect my MP to look to the best interests of ALL the constituents he/she represents, neither more nor less.  Your view appears to be a Me,Me,Me and stuff everyone else attitude; which I find very sad but typical of the way the country is going at the moment.

[bellevuebulgar]

Very interesting reading this thread in the light of her losing her seat. In a past life I met her in her official capacity as an MP instrumental in passing the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. She was knowledgeable, interested in opinions of us practitioners implementing the Act and was keen to make any improvements we thought possible. I liked her, I thought she was a very capable and committed MP.

[Axholme Lion]

Not only is Flint now facing a court case, she's out of work and looking for a new job - and so is her husband as she employed him.  I really do feel sorry for her.... NOT!
 
Maybe stacking shelves at ASDA would be a better line of work for her.

An MP who stood up for her constituents opinions. Although I am not a Labourite, she has my greatest respect.

No she didn't.  She stood up for herself, as do many politicians.  All she was doing was looking to keep her and her husbands well paid jobs by pandering to her electorate instead of looking to their best interests IMO.

'Pandering to her electorate'. I don't know about you but I expect my MP to do what I voted them in to do, not to go off and do their own thing because 'they know better'.

I expect my MP to look to the best interests of ALL the constituents he/she represents, neither more nor less.  Your view appears to be a Me,Me,Me and stuff everyone else attitude; which I find very sad but typical of the way the country is going at the moment.

Or putting things another way if there are two sides to an argument go with the majority view of the electorate. In Don Valley the majority voted Leave so it is right that she took the view that she did, equally I would expect an MP in a remain constituency to take the opposite view.

[Not Now Kato]

Not only is Flint now facing a court case, she's out of work and looking for a new job - and so is her husband as she employed him.  I really do feel sorry for her.... NOT!
 
Maybe stacking shelves at ASDA would be a better line of work for her.

An MP who stood up for her constituents opinions. Although I am not a Labourite, she has my greatest respect.

No she didn't.  She stood up for herself, as do many politicians.  All she was doing was looking to keep her and her husbands well paid jobs by pandering to her electorate instead of looking to their best interests IMO.

'Pandering to her electorate'. I don't know about you but I expect my MP to do what I voted them in to do, not to go off and do their own thing because 'they know better'.

I expect my MP to look to the best interests of ALL the constituents he/she represents, neither more nor less.  Your view appears to be a Me,Me,Me and stuff everyone else attitude; which I find very sad but typical of the way the country is going at the moment.

Or putting things another way if there are two sides to an argument go with the majority view of the electorate. In Don Valley the majority voted Leave so it is right that she took the view that she did, equally I would expect an MP in a remain constituency to take the opposite view.

No, go with what you KNOW to be best for ALL your constituents, and explain it to them - in detail.
 
She didn't.  They voted her out.

[Petche]

Never particularly liked her but based on this argument she couldn't win!

[drfchound]

Not only is Flint now facing a court case, she's out of work and looking for a new job - and so is her husband as she employed him.  I really do feel sorry for her.... NOT!
 
Maybe stacking shelves at ASDA would be a better line of work for her.

An MP who stood up for her constituents opinions. Although I am not a Labourite, she has my greatest respect.

No she didn't.  She stood up for herself, as do many politicians.  All she was doing was looking to keep her and her husbands well paid jobs by pandering to her electorate instead of looking to their best interests IMO.

'Pandering to her electorate'. I don't know about you but I expect my MP to do what I voted them in to do, not to go off and do their own thing because 'they know better'.

I expect my MP to look to the best interests of ALL the constituents he/she represents, neither more nor less.  Your view appears to be a Me,Me,Me and stuff everyone else attitude; which I find very sad but typical of the way the country is going at the moment.

Or putting things another way if there are two sides to an argument go with the majority view of the electorate. In Don Valley the majority voted Leave so it is right that she took the view that she did, equally I would expect an MP in a remain constituency to take the opposite view.

No, go with what you KNOW to be best for ALL your constituents, and explain it to them - in detail.
 
She didn't.  They voted her out.

Kato, I would say it is impossible for an MP to KNOW what is best for ALL their constituents.

[Muttley]

The generally accepted principle is that MPs should act in the best interests of the country first, and for their constituents second.

    The first duty of a member of Parliament is to do what he thinks in his faithful and disinterested judgement is right and necessary for the honour and safety of Great Britain. His second duty is to his constituents, of whom he is the representative but not the delegate. Burke's famous declaration on this subject is well known. It is only in the third place that his duty to party organization or programme takes rank. All these three loyalties should be observed, but there is no doubt of the order in which they stand under any healthy manifestation of democracy.
    — Winston Churchill, Duties of a Member of Parliament (c.1954–1955)[8]

This principle seems to have gone out of the window for most MPs, otherwise they would have never enacted Brexit.

[wing commander]

    tbh For you Labour supporters it could have been much worse in Doncaster.I've just looked at the results of the Doncaster constituency's and boy were they close to losing them all..If it wasn't for the Brexit party they would have been toast..I never thought I would see the day!!!

[Filo]

    tbh For you Labour supporters it could have been much worse in Doncaster.I've just looked at the results of the Doncaster constituency's and boy were they close to losing them all..If it wasn't for the Brexit party they would have been toast..I never thought I would see the day!!!

If it was n’tfor the brexit party, Labour majorities would have only been slightly down

[BillyStubbsTears]

Not only is Flint now facing a court case, she's out of work and looking for a new job - and so is her husband as she employed him.  I really do feel sorry for her.... NOT!
 
Maybe stacking shelves at ASDA would be a better line of work for her.

An MP who stood up for her constituents opinions. Although I am not a Labourite, she has my greatest respect.

No she didn't.  She stood up for herself, as do many politicians.  All she was doing was looking to keep her and her husbands well paid jobs by pandering to her electorate instead of looking to their best interests IMO.

'Pandering to her electorate'. I don't know about you but I expect my MP to do what I voted them in to do, not to go off and do their own thing because 'they know better'.

I expect my MP to look to the best interests of ALL the constituents he/she represents, neither more nor less.  Your view appears to be a Me,Me,Me and stuff everyone else attitude; which I find very sad but typical of the way the country is going at the moment.

Or putting things another way if there are two sides to an argument go with the majority view of the electorate. In Don Valley the majority voted Leave so it is right that she took the view that she did, equally I would expect an MP in a remain constituency to take the opposite view.

No, go with what you KNOW to be best for ALL your constituents, and explain it to them - in detail.
 
She didn't.  They voted her out.

Kato, I would say it is impossible for an MP to KNOW what is best for ALL their constituents.

This thread shows a depressing lack of understanding about how our democracy works.

When you vote for an MP, you vote for someone who will apply their own judgement as to what policies to support or oppose.

They have no "duty" to represent anyone.

If you disagree with their choices, you have the right to vote against them at the next Election.

MPs are not delegates who are supposed to "represent" their constituents.

In practice, of course, many MPs toe a party line, so when constituents judge them, they are, in practice, judging their Party's policies.

But here's the odd thing

Flint consistently supported Hard Brexit policies which her party opposed. If electoral logic held, she shouldn't have been swept aside by the swing against Labour. Yet she was.

That seems to me to be a huge problem with the democratic process. And I say that as someone who would not have voted for her.

[Axholme Lion]

Not only is Flint now facing a court case, she's out of work and looking for a new job - and so is her husband as she employed him.  I really do feel sorry for her.... NOT!
 
Maybe stacking shelves at ASDA would be a better line of work for her.

An MP who stood up for her constituents opinions. Although I am not a Labourite, she has my greatest respect.

No she didn't.  She stood up for herself, as do many politicians.  All she was doing was looking to keep her and her husbands well paid jobs by pandering to her electorate instead of looking to their best interests IMO.

'Pandering to her electorate'. I don't know about you but I expect my MP to do what I voted them in to do, not to go off and do their own thing because 'they know better'.

I expect my MP to look to the best interests of ALL the constituents he/she represents, neither more nor less.  Your view appears to be a Me,Me,Me and stuff everyone else attitude; which I find very sad but typical of the way the country is going at the moment.

Or putting things another way if there are two sides to an argument go with the majority view of the electorate. In Don Valley the majority voted Leave so it is right that she took the view that she did, equally I would expect an MP in a remain constituency to take the opposite view.

No, go with what you KNOW to be best for ALL your constituents, and explain it to them - in detail.
 
She didn't.  They voted her out.

Kato, I would say it is impossible for an MP to KNOW what is best for ALL their constituents.

This thread shows a depressing lack of understanding about how our democracy works.

When you vote for an MP, you vote for someone who will apply their own judgement as to what policies to support or oppose.

They have no "duty" to represent anyone.

If you disagree with their choices, you have the right to vote against them at the next Election.

MPs are not delegates who are supposed to "represent" their constituents.

In practice, of course, many MPs toe a party line, so when constituents judge them, they are, in practice, judging their Party's policies.

But here's the odd thing

Flint consistently supported Hard Brexit policies which her party opposed. If electoral logic held, she shouldn't have been swept aside by the swing against Labour. Yet she was.

That seems to me to be a huge problem with the democratic process. And I say that as someone who would not have voted for her.

I take your point but I wouldn't vote for a candidate with vastly differing views to myself. My local MP, Andrew Percy, regularly sends out questionaires to find local opinion and ask what matters most to people in the area.

[BillyStubbsTears]

That's the worst sort of populism.

"Dear constituent. What do YOU think we should have as a national policy on neo-Keynsian macroeconomics".

"Dear MP. We elected YOU to make these tough decisions. If you need us to tell you what to do, why the f**k are you drawing your salary?"

[drfchound]

Not only is Flint now facing a court case, she's out of work and looking for a new job - and so is her husband as she employed him.  I really do feel sorry for her.... NOT!
 
Maybe stacking shelves at ASDA would be a better line of work for her.

An MP who stood up for her constituents opinions. Although I am not a Labourite, she has my greatest respect.

No she didn't.  She stood up for herself, as do many politicians.  All she was doing was looking to keep her and her husbands well paid jobs by pandering to her electorate instead of looking to their best interests IMO.

'Pandering to her electorate'. I don't know about you but I expect my MP to do what I voted them in to do, not to go off and do their own thing because 'they know better'.

I expect my MP to look to the best interests of ALL the constituents he/she represents, neither more nor less.  Your view appears to be a Me,Me,Me and stuff everyone else attitude; which I find very sad but typical of the way the country is going at the moment.

Or putting things another way if there are two sides to an argument go with the majority view of the electorate. In Don Valley the majority voted Leave so it is right that she took the view that she did, equally I would expect an MP in a remain constituency to take the opposite view.

No, go with what you KNOW to be best for ALL your constituents, and explain it to them - in detail.
 
She didn't.  They voted her out.

Kato, I would say it is impossible for an MP to KNOW what is best for ALL their constituents.

This thread shows a depressing lack of understanding about how our democracy works.

When you vote for an MP, you vote for someone who will apply their own judgement as to what policies to support or oppose.

They have no "duty" to represent anyone.

If you disagree with their choices, you have the right to vote against them at the next Election.

MPs are not delegates who are supposed to "represent" their constituents.

In practice, of course, many MPs toe a party line, so when constituents judge them, they are, in practice, judging their Party's policies.

But here's the odd thing

Flint consistently supported Hard Brexit policies which her party opposed. If electoral logic held, she shouldn't have been swept aside by the swing against Labour. Yet she was.

That seems to me to be a huge problem with the democratic process. And I say that as someone who would not have voted for her.

BST,     Your first line in the above post will no doubt upset some of our resident political “experts” because some of their posts on the duties of an elected MP contrast with your version of what they are expected to do during their term of office.

[Axholme Lion]

That's the worst sort of populism.

"Dear constituent. What do YOU think we should have as a national policy on neo-Keynsian macroeconomics".

"Dear MP. We elected YOU to make these tough decisions. If you need us to tell you what to do, why the f**k are you drawing your salary?"

 Or someone who listens to the wishes of the people, which is a welcome contrast to some other MPs who have only been to university and have never had a proper job in the real world. His majority is now over twenty thousand!