Jihadi bride

[roversdude]

Absolute disgrace that one of these wants to come home (back to UK) to have a child

[Filo]

She says she has no regrets, so for me she’s made her bed now lie in it, let her husband provide for here not the state and way of life she rejected

[drfchound]

Brazenly says she wasn’t fazed by seeing heads in bins after people had been beheaded.

[roversdude]

I’m sure there will be some who will try and put an argument together to back her up.

[tommy toes]

I'd like to put up an argument for the girl.
She's lost two kids already, but her attitude stinks so leave her there.

[RobTheRover]

Have a heart, lads. The poor lass is going home to Bethnal Green

[BillyStubbsTears]

It comes to something when Jacob Rees-Mogg tonight on QT is speaking sense on this.

As he said, when she was radicalised and went  to ISIS, she was 15. She was "married" immediately.  In normal circumstances, we'd call a 15 year old that experienced grooming and then was raped by an older man a "victim".

[roversdude]

So suddenly finds the strength to break free
In my opinion should not be allowed back, I’m sure we will go all out and she will jump the queue get a house and possibly a new identity

[Axholme Lion]

She went to join a cult who want to kill us all and wipe normal society from the face of the earth.
How many executions and torturing has she happily witnessed? How much compassion has she shown for IS victims? She was happy to go with the flow while they were on the up, but now the tide has turned she wants to come crawling home. Well i'm sorry love but you no longer have a home here, you made your own bed, so lie in it. Let the Kurds sort her out.

[rich1471]

She only wants to come back because he first 2 children died and is scared the soon to be born child will die as well which i understand , but she has no regrets about going out their or seeing the heads of the victims after they have been beheaded , listen to the interview she gave to the times news paper , prison is to good for her let her rot out their forever.   

[Dn11]

She made a decision to join ISIS knowing full well what they were about, now their plan to kill all non Muslims has failed she would like to come back doesn’t work like that, we should accept the baby and leave her there

[Bentley Bullet]

It's a wonderful and admirable thing doing right by deserving and desirable people, but like in many other instances, the problem is undeserving and undesirable people want the same privileges. This often leads to genuine people losing out to the frauds.

That's the biggest reason why socialism doesn't work.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fascinating responses. Make JRM on QT last night sound like a bleeding heart liberal.

I thought a key feature of why we were better than IS is that we believe in man-made laws, not some perverted interpretation of what some "prophet" is supposed to have had revealed to him by God 1400 years ago.

As JRM said last night,

1) She was legally a child who was groomed into joining IS.
2) Under international law, we are duty bound to accept her back to the UK.
3) If she has committed a crime, we should then prosecute her.

She may well have done horrific things. But it's not your right or my right to say that our revulsion of what she has done means we break international law.

Unless you want to become the sort of society that IS want us to become. One where blood lust and revenge trump's the law.

[Axholme Lion]

Fascinating responses. Make JRM on QT last night sound like a bleeding heart liberal.

I thought a key feature of why we were better than IS is that we believe in man-made laws, not some perverted interpretation of what some "prophet" is supposed to have had revealed to him by God 1400 years ago.

As JRM said last night,

1) She was legally a child who was groomed into joining IS.
2) Under international law, we are duty bound to accept her back to the UK.
3) If she has committed a crime, we should then prosecute her.

She may well have done horrific things. But it's not your right or my right to say that our revulsion of what she has done means we break international law.

Unless you want to become the sort of society that IS want us to become. One where blood lust and revenge trump's the law.

BST. I know we agree on virtually nothing, however i'm always happy to listen to your opinions, but in this case I think you are just plain WRONG. IS is a despicable death cult and there is clearly something seriously wrong with anyone who could claim to support their atrocities. They make the worst of Stalin and Hitler's work look like childish frolics. Everyone knows the difference between right and wrong. She has chosen her pathway and now must be made to pay the price. This is no time for do-gooders.

[roversdude]

BST this forum was much poorer whilst you were in exile, however can’t agree with you on this one, for me she rescinded the right to be a UK citizen

[RobTheRover]

No she hasn't. She was radicalised and went out there following the belief she was i doctrinated to follow. She's still a UK citizen. What this does highlight however is that the UK and other countries don't have a real plan on what to do with our citizens who have done this.

I blame Brexit. Utter smokescreen for other real policies.

[wilts rover]

Genuine question.

I understand that this girl is high profile because The Times decided to put her on the front page, but given that there are already over 400 former IS jihadis who have returned to the UK without any comment, why are concerned about this particular one?

ttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/isis-british-jihadis-return-uk-iraq-syria-report-islamic-state-fighters-europe-threat-debate-terror-a8017811.html

[selby]

  Well, I agree with BST. she should be dealt with by British laws in this country. We have the laws to deal with this here, and if she gets to one of our embassies we must take her in, or a president would be set to ignore others who are innocent of wrong doing.
  A whole life sentence would be appropriate.

[i_ateallthepies]

Her closing remark on last night's news was something to the effect that ISIS is a busted flush and expressed disappointment at that.  In spite of what she has seen these people do and probably been on the receiving end of their ways I have to agree that international law must be complied with and she allowed to return but given that she's a UK citizen her ISIS husband could be granted the right to join her here and then in 20 yrs time (or sooner) her soon to be born child would be an open goal for radicalisation and all of them a threat to UK citizens.  Sticking in my craw this one.

[BillyStubbsTears]

A little historical side note by the way AL.


I assume you don't know much about the bestiality of Hitler's regime. I'm not really sure there's a league table to rank mass murderers, but if there was, I think the industrial genocide is on a par with anything IS has done.

But if it's the means of their murders that marks them out, I suggest you have a little look at what the (fanatical right wing and Christian) Ustase did in Croatia under the protection of the Nazis, within living memory. I think you'll find that in terms of both numbers and sheer unadulterated horror, IS pales by comparison..

And before the usual suspects rush in with their half-formed opinions, this is NOT to in any way justify or support IS. They are abhorrent and need to be stamped out. But we need a bit of perspective. There's the propensity to do horrific things in every society. What marks us out as better than IS and the Ustase, is that we control the impulse to lash out.

PS. Word of warning. Do NOT go looking for stuff about Ustase atrocities if you are easily upset. They are some of the most horrific mass murders imaginable.

[SydneyRover]

It's a wonderful and admirable thing doing right by deserving and desirable people, but like in many other instances, the problem is undeserving and undesirable people want the same privileges. This often leads to genuine people losing out to the frauds.

That's the biggest reason why socialism doesn't work.

And who decides where to draw the the line BB, you? you're already clouding the the water with politics.

[keith79]

She will be back before the end of June

[Filo]

It comes to something when Jacob Rees-Mogg tonight on QT is speaking sense on this.

As he said, when she was radicalised and went  to ISIS, she was 15. She was "married" immediately.  In normal circumstances, we'd call a 15 year old that experienced grooming and then was raped by an older man a "victim".

How does Rees Mogg know she was raped?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Because if she was "married" at 15 to an older man and they had sex (which they highly likely did as she's now only 19 and pregnant for the third time) that, legally, is rape

[RobTheRover]

Should add the "offence" didn't happen in our country where the age of consent is 16. Without checking (I'm tired and half watching a film) I doubt it's as high as that in an IS stronghold.

[Filo]

Because if she was "married" at 15 to an older man and they had sex (which they highly likely did as she's now only 19 and pregnant for the third time) that, legally, is rape

Given that she left the juristriction of the UK of her own free will, and joined a caliphate, namely Islamic State and the fact that in those comunities child brides are common place and legal in their culture, the age of consent would not come into and the only way she was raped is if she didn’t give consent. So Rees Mogg cannot be sure she was raped and she hasn’t made any allegation that she was raped

[BillyStubbsTears]

So let me get this right.
If you had a daughter at 15, who was groomed and convinced to travel to another country, where an older man had sex with her, and in that country, child brides were ten a penny.

That'd be cool?

[drfchound]

Because if she was "married" at 15 to an older man and they had sex (which they highly likely did as she's now only 19 and pregnant for the third time) that, legally, is rape

Given that she left the juristriction of the UK of her own free will, and joined a caliphate, namely Islamic State and the fact that in those comunities child brides are common place and legal in their culture, the age of consent would not come into and the only way she was raped is if she didn’t give consent. So Rees Mogg cannot be sure she was raped and she hasn’t made any allegation that she was raped

I don’t think she would have been going over there to make the tea and sandwiches for when the fighters came home after a tough day beheading people.

[Bentley Bullet]

So let me get this right.
If you had a daughter at 15, who was groomed and convinced to travel to another country, where an older man had sex with her, and in that country, child brides were ten a penny.

That'd be cool?

Of course, it's dreadful, but would, if the government gave out the message that 'trying it, and even if you don't like it you can come back' help solve the problem? Wouldn't that make it easier for young girls to be persuaded to take that route?

[Filo]

So let me get this right.
If you had a daughter at 15, who was groomed and convinced to travel to another country, where an older man had sex with her, and in that country, child brides were ten a penny.

That'd be cool?

I had a daughter that was 15 once, 15 years ago, she was brought up to know right from wrong, she wasn’t stupid enough to be brainwashed, and her father (me) didn’t try to brainwash her. This young women was taken to extremist rallies by her father, if she was brainwashed it was by members of her own family. The only reason Rees Mogg is saying she was raped is because she was below the age of consent in this Country, she rejected the values and laws of this Country and went to join something she believed in, she married an ISIS fighter, most probably with her consent, so in this case I don’t think the allegations of rape apply in the sense that how we in this Country see rape