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Author Topic: Never ever want to get to the Premier league  (Read 7778 times)

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BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #30 on February 20, 2019, 04:57:39 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Dickos.
In 2016/17 Cardiff City made a loss of £21m. In May 2017, their accounts showed an overall debt of £115m, the majority owed to lifelong fan and Cardiff lad...checks notes...err...Vincent Tan.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cardiff-citys-debt-stands-115m-14381088.amp

Not sure what you're idea of spending obscene amounts of money is, but if you're going to the bar, mine's a pint of liquid gold.



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BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #31 on February 20, 2019, 05:03:22 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Rigo.

That year Brentford made the playoffs.

They had an income of £10m and expenditure of £27.5m. Their wage bill alone was 77% higher than their entire income.

If you're going to the bar with Dickos, I'll have a bag of scampi flavoured Nik-Naks.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 05:07:30 pm by BillyStubbsTears »

roversontheup

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #32 on February 20, 2019, 05:59:36 pm by roversontheup »
I know I’m in the minority and going to get shot down but I despise the Premier League.  I know the standard of football is or can be amazing but I detest with a passion all that goes with that. I chose not to watch it but understand why many do.

For me watching Rovers is far, far more than just the quality of the football or the opposition. They are my team, my club. I have so many memories tied up in Rovers. I love the values of the club and I love that being a supporter of a smallish club means I have a personal connection with them. I don’t want to see the heart and soul torn out of the club by the obscene financial demands of the Premier League.


DonnyBazR0ver

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #33 on February 20, 2019, 07:19:58 pm by DonnyBazR0ver »
For me, the big challenge is whether we could do it with our present owners, who I trust implicitly to do it the right way and for the right reasons. I trust them to manage the finances to give the club the best opportunity without jeopardising our existence.

The notion of attracting other investors who have no emotional or community commitment fills me with horror. Always beware of so called investors who allegedly have a potful of money and promise the earth. As said, there's great danger in ripping the heart and soul out of the club.

In a number of cases, certain clubs successes have been based on funds from money laundering although the source of those funds are carefully hidden in a web of multiple overseas registered companies.

Stick with what and who we know.

Colemans Left Hook

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #34 on February 20, 2019, 07:32:52 pm by Colemans Left Hook »
For me, the big challenge is whether we could do it with our present owners, who I trust implicitly to do it the right way and for the right reasons. I trust them to manage the finances to give the club the best opportunity without jeopardising our existence.

The notion of attracting other investors who have no emotional or community commitment fills me with horror. Always beware of so called investors who allegedly have a potful of money and promise the earth. As said, there's great danger in ripping the heart and soul out of the club.

In a number of cases, certain clubs successes have been based on funds from money laundering although the source of those funds are carefully hidden in a web of multiple overseas registered companies.

Stick with what and who we know.

and others have "allegedly" effectively taken out an "inverted life insurance policy"  so that their high profile status means they literally "stay alive"  they might not have been bourne with a silver spoon in their mouth but a certain bee gees song comes to mind 

RedRover

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #35 on February 21, 2019, 04:23:55 pm by RedRover »
I would have thought most fans of every club who's not been there would want just one season in the Premier League mixing it with the big boys. If the team survives? Brilliant - that'll be at least two years - a bit like Huddersfield now!

If you want great stories to tell the kids about, I'm sure 'that one season where we won at Liverpool, drew at Man City, and nearly stayed up' is more interesting than endless tales about not winning at Walsall in so many years.

Getting into Europe - possible for a relatively small club like Bournemouth nowadays - will also bring about stories when the inevitable 'dropping back down a couple of divisions' becomes a reality!

Agreed. You must be mental if Prem isn't your dream being a Rovers fan. England to win the World Cup and Rovers to get in the Prem are the two football dreams for me

What gets me to attend games on a Saturday is the belief that we have an equal chance of competing and beating the team we're up against.  Being in the PL would do nothing, absolutely nothing to soften the misery of seeing my team arseholed week in and week out.

Between the two of us, Move DRFC, I'm damned sure I know who is mental on this matter.

But if we got to the Prem, we would be an attractive proposition to international players, investors etc, enabling us to massivley improve our team and club and thus giving us a chance to stay up. It would be massive for the club. Look at Huddersfield and Bournemouth. Huddersfield stayed up and Bournemouth have kept on improving. Burnley as well are now established in the Prem.

Not to mention the quality of football on show every week - plus the euphoria of getting promoted from the Championship. If I'm mental for wanting that, then shoot me down!

Through your logic you'd rather us be in League Two than the Premier League then I assume? Sorry just having a giggle at that thought.
Crystal Palace were a side full of highly paid international players. Did you enjoy watching them? They struggled to string more than a couple of passes together and not a single Palace player stood out above ours in terms of technical ability, not one. There were all physically bigger either in height or build (in most cases both) and some were fast runners but despite what the media tells you being "blessed"with pace doesn't make you a good footballer. That's your "quality of football on show every week" shot down in flames!

You say LOOK at Huddersfield and Bournemouth and cite how "they've kept on improving" but you're the only who isn't LOOKing or he isn't capable of seeing the reality. Both teams have lost more games than they've won in every season they've spent in the EPL! Hows that an improvement and more importantly whats the point of spending loads of money on staff, players and facilities to lose more games than you win? So fans can watch you play "the big boys"? Losing to Man City is the same as losing to Bury, it's still losing! To go to Old Trafford, Anfield and the Emirates and alike every other week? They're only football stadiums! Unique but essentially just a place to watch football were if you sit close to the pitch you'll get wet if it rains, the toilets will likely still be a state, and the food is still substandard and overpriced. Then there's the cost to the supporter. Spending the sort of money you have to for a ticket to a EPL game to watch your team lose more than it wins is frankly retarded!

Personally I'd rather win League 2 than finish 1 place above relegation in the Premier League. I think you need to be careful what you wish for or go and find another club to 'support'.

Oh and don't mistake or misinterpret what I've written as a lack of ambition as nothing could be further from the truth and I will remind and ban anyone who suggests as much when I make it onto the board/become chairman of Doncaster Rovers! It's worth pointing out at this point I won't be chucking all my hard earned money at the club when I do achieve my goal either!

I want to see Doncaster Rovers doing as well as they possibly can, winning games, winning leagues and playing attractive football but not at any price. It's far more important to me that Doncaster Rovers is around and stays around for as long as enough people continue to want to watch professional football in Doncaster. Afterall professional sport is entertainment and if nobody wants entertaining then sadly there's no need for a professional team. If we achieved promotion to the top division of English football then of course I'd be pleased, more so if we'd done so by actually winning the Championship as the only goal/target for every professional football club every season should be to win the league. If you finish runner up you get promoted as a reward but you still failed as the aim is to win and it's important to remember that. When a manager comes out and says his aim for the season is promotion, he should be sacked immediately, as who the f*%^k sets out to finish 3rd? The way EPL is currently I'd be quite content with a single season of getting thumped knowing the money made from promotion and parachute payments would ensure the club was financially secure in the immediate and medium term. The next season I'd expect us to target winning the Championship again! 

« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 04:29:08 pm by RedRover »

sha66y

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #36 on February 21, 2019, 06:46:08 pm by sha66y »
Agree with all of that, RedRover....

The premiership is not even entertaining to watch....
And my footballing ambition is;

to live to witness the premiership imploding
to see an England team without a millionaire playing
to see Forest green Rovers in the Championship
and
to watch good old Donny beat more teams than they lose to....

and only watch them in the Premiership if we keep the same team that gets us there, then I would know we are just a pub team having a laugh in the berry red faces of the p**s poor pundits...

Pundit....“ Grant,!  so Doncaster got beat 6 nil by Chelsea today...what are your feelings?
Grant..... fe*k off

scawsby steve

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #37 on February 21, 2019, 08:21:43 pm by scawsby steve »
I would have thought most fans of every club who's not been there would want just one season in the Premier League mixing it with the big boys. If the team survives? Brilliant - that'll be at least two years - a bit like Huddersfield now!

If you want great stories to tell the kids about, I'm sure 'that one season where we won at Liverpool, drew at Man City, and nearly stayed up' is more interesting than endless tales about not winning at Walsall in so many years.

Getting into Europe - possible for a relatively small club like Bournemouth nowadays - will also bring about stories when the inevitable 'dropping back down a couple of divisions' becomes a reality!

Agreed. You must be mental if Prem isn't your dream being a Rovers fan. England to win the World Cup and Rovers to get in the Prem are the two football dreams for me

What gets me to attend games on a Saturday is the belief that we have an equal chance of competing and beating the team we're up against.  Being in the PL would do nothing, absolutely nothing to soften the misery of seeing my team arseholed week in and week out.

Between the two of us, Move DRFC, I'm damned sure I know who is mental on this matter.

But if we got to the Prem, we would be an attractive proposition to international players, investors etc, enabling us to massivley improve our team and club and thus giving us a chance to stay up. It would be massive for the club. Look at Huddersfield and Bournemouth. Huddersfield stayed up and Bournemouth have kept on improving. Burnley as well are now established in the Prem.

Not to mention the quality of football on show every week - plus the euphoria of getting promoted from the Championship. If I'm mental for wanting that, then shoot me down!

Through your logic you'd rather us be in League Two than the Premier League then I assume? Sorry just having a giggle at that thought.
Crystal Palace were a side full of highly paid international players. Did you enjoy watching them? They struggled to string more than a couple of passes together and not a single Palace player stood out above ours in terms of technical ability, not one. There were all physically bigger either in height or build (in most cases both) and some were fast runners but despite what the media tells you being "blessed"with pace doesn't make you a good footballer. That's your "quality of football on show every week" shot down in flames!

You say LOOK at Huddersfield and Bournemouth and cite how "they've kept on improving" but you're the only who isn't LOOKing or he isn't capable of seeing the reality. Both teams have lost more games than they've won in every season they've spent in the EPL! Hows that an improvement and more importantly whats the point of spending loads of money on staff, players and facilities to lose more games than you win? So fans can watch you play "the big boys"? Losing to Man City is the same as losing to Bury, it's still losing! To go to Old Trafford, Anfield and the Emirates and alike every other week? They're only football stadiums! Unique but essentially just a place to watch football were if you sit close to the pitch you'll get wet if it rains, the toilets will likely still be a state, and the food is still substandard and overpriced. Then there's the cost to the supporter. Spending the sort of money you have to for a ticket to a EPL game to watch your team lose more than it wins is frankly retarded!

Personally I'd rather win League 2 than finish 1 place above relegation in the Premier League. I think you need to be careful what you wish for or go and find another club to 'support'.

Oh and don't mistake or misinterpret what I've written as a lack of ambition as nothing could be further from the truth and I will remind and ban anyone who suggests as much when I make it onto the board/become chairman of Doncaster Rovers! It's worth pointing out at this point I won't be chucking all my hard earned money at the club when I do achieve my goal either!

I want to see Doncaster Rovers doing as well as they possibly can, winning games, winning leagues and playing attractive football but not at any price. It's far more important to me that Doncaster Rovers is around and stays around for as long as enough people continue to want to watch professional football in Doncaster. Afterall professional sport is entertainment and if nobody wants entertaining then sadly there's no need for a professional team. If we achieved promotion to the top division of English football then of course I'd be pleased, more so if we'd done so by actually winning the Championship as the only goal/target for every professional football club every season should be to win the league. If you finish runner up you get promoted as a reward but you still failed as the aim is to win and it's important to remember that. When a manager comes out and says his aim for the season is promotion, he should be sacked immediately, as who the f*%^k sets out to finish 3rd? The way EPL is currently I'd be quite content with a single season of getting thumped knowing the money made from promotion and parachute payments would ensure the club was financially secure in the immediate and medium term. The next season I'd expect us to target winning the Championship again!

A very good post, mate; the only thing I disagree with is the technical ability comparison; I thought their passing ability looked light years ahead of ours.

sheffield exile1

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #38 on February 21, 2019, 08:37:08 pm by sheffield exile1 »
Sustainability post premiership- Bradford City down to L2, Barnsley similar, lets see where Huddersfield fare and even "big clubs" in free fall such as Wolves and Sunderland 2 successive relegation's after crashing out - buying over inflated wage earners on silly contracts to maintain/return t the promised land....even Villa/Forest European Cup winners mediocre in the Championship or at best "challengers". Its a massive business being in the PL unless  you are savvy/lucky like Burnley and little old Bournemouth.. oh their Bulgarian (?) trillionaire is not exactly cash strapped to support his latest plaything... I rest my case...

drfchound

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #39 on February 21, 2019, 10:54:41 pm by drfchound »
Red rover, I have read your post a few times now and I am still not sure whether you want us to get to the PL or not.

As for finishing third, I reckon i know someone who will disagree with you on that point.

My own view on the PL is that , generally it is three divisions in one.
The top six, the bottom six or seven, which very often includes the three that came up the previous season and then the rest of the mid table clubs, which are almost always the same few clubs.

If we ever got there I would be happy to just avoid relegation.
It would be much the same as when we were in the Championship, staying up was a good result really.

As for going to the Emirates, Old Trafford or Anfield every other week, well we wouldn’t would we.
It would just be once a season unless we got them in a cup game.

Donnywolf

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #40 on February 22, 2019, 07:02:25 am by Donnywolf »
I completely agree Rigo

Its irrational to support a Team - especially your home town Team - and NOT want them to get Promoted and NOT get as high in the pyramind as possible

Anyway for once I will say na more except  :that:

sha66y

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #41 on February 22, 2019, 10:54:23 am by sha66y »
If getting to the premiership means totally dismantling the team that got you there and all the pleasures and frustrations that goes with supporting Donny,...
to then replace a large percentage of these players with either over priced over paid journeymen or unpronounceable foreigners , then to watch your team be beaten week in week out with the occasional 3 points won , but always knowing you were gonna get relegated with a team cobbled together .......pahhhhh, you primo premiership dreamers are dreaming

You would sell us out for glory coins ......


BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #42 on February 22, 2019, 11:15:14 am by BillyStubbsTears »
If it came down to it, I don't think that many people would be wanting promotion not to happen.

Lets say this current squad gets promoted and somehow, with a few acquisitions, hits the ground running and ends up in a promotion battle in the Championship this time next year.



You might as well say "Let's say I jumped really hard and hit my head on the moon."

Name me one club that has made it to the Premier League in the past 20 years, since the finance disparity  was really bedded in, without either having far bigger crowd capacity or having run up very large debts in doing so.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #43 on February 22, 2019, 11:56:13 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Blackpool lost £7m the year they went up. And that particular story didn't pan out too well did it.

By the way. The other examples that have been suggested if how you can get, or nearly get to the PL on the cheap.

Huddersfield lost £17m the year they went up, taking their total debts to £65m.

Bristol City, having lost in the play-offs in 2007/08, had debts so high that Deloitte Touche Ross, their auditors said they "may cast significant doubt on the ability to continue as a going concern."

Then there was the very special case of Bournemouth, whose foreign owner bankrolled them by covering losses to the tune of £48m in the two years before they joined the PL.

It doesn't happen. This lovely wet dream fantasy of a pub team getting to the highest level through their spirit and ability on the pitch.

It doesn't happen.

You make it to the PL by being a big club, having a sugar daddy pour tens of millions into the club, or by taking the most outrageous of financial risks.

The dream is dead. It was throttled off over the past 25 years while folk were buying into Murdoch's vision of football.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #44 on February 22, 2019, 12:58:15 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Blackpool's journey was a dream, was it? I'd hate to live in one of your nightmares.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #45 on February 22, 2019, 01:00:55 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
The rest of your post is irrelevant to what we were talking about.

I'll repeat. No club gets to the PL without
a) Being big already
b) Running up huge losses that are covered by a sugar daddy
c) Running up huge losses that aren't covered and run the risk of finishing the club off.


adamtherover

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #46 on February 22, 2019, 01:16:13 pm by adamtherover »
The rest of your post is irrelevant to what we were talking about.

I'll repeat. No club gets to the PL without
a) Being big already
b) Running up huge losses that are covered by a sugar daddy
c) Running up huge losses that aren't covered and run the risk of finishing the club off.



WHAT HE SAID!!!!!

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #47 on February 22, 2019, 01:28:05 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Nowt personal Rigo, but I REALLY don't want you in my dreams. I think you'd probably feel a bit uncomfortable there an all if you were watching what was going off.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 01:34:06 pm by BillyStubbsTears »

sha66y

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #48 on February 22, 2019, 02:13:35 pm by sha66y »
I fancy that all those wishing a premiership journey for Doncaster Rovers, are already affiliated to premiership teams by birth...
dazing doe-eyed from Friday to Tuesday, mesmerised at the skill of the beautiful game.......wishing and dreaming that Messi pulled on a Rovers shirt for a giveaway million a week...

as their Skysports subscription multiplies to the tune of Murdoch rubbing his gnarly greedy Aussie hands.....

zzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Colemans Left Hook

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #49 on February 22, 2019, 03:36:06 pm by Colemans Left Hook »
Sustainability post premiership- Bradford City down to L2, Barnsley similar, lets see where Huddersfield fare and even "big clubs" in free fall such as Wolves and Sunderland 2 successive relegation's after crashing out - buying over inflated wage earners on silly contracts to maintain/return t the promised land....even Villa/Forest European Cup winners mediocre in the Championship or at best "challengers". Its a massive business being in the PL unless  you are savvy/lucky like Burnley and little old Bournemouth.. oh their Bulgarian (?) trillionaire is not exactly cash strapped to support his latest plaything... I rest my case...

I watched that Brighton Burnley match on Bt sports and it dawned on me The Burnley players all had either traditional names or European -- and realised they have no Africans (remember Egypt Tunisia Morocco is Africa)  nor iran iwalk etc players
and i think Bournemouth might be the same anyone fancy checking this fact .  COINCIDENCE ??

https://www.skysports.com/burnley-squad

https://www.skysports.com/bournemouth-squad

in fact i am sure Burnley must have the most British players in their squad ?  If we didn't have this "pollution" of foreign players they must be in the top six squad wise

by the way the bloke at Bournemouth is a Russian -  no comments about him necessary HERE.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 03:41:32 pm by Colemans Left Hook »

Bristol Red Rover

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #50 on February 22, 2019, 04:14:27 pm by Bristol Red Rover »
Blackpool's journey was a dream, was it? I'd hate to live in one of your nightmares.
Change your profile pic then  :evil:

dickos1

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #51 on February 23, 2019, 06:37:17 am by dickos1 »
Cardiff city and Burnley have both reached the premier league without spending a fortune or putting themselves in debt.
Cardiff has one of the lowest wage bills in the championship last season

NickDRFC

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #52 on February 23, 2019, 08:13:24 am by NickDRFC »
Cardiff city and Burnley have both reached the premier league without spending a fortune or putting themselves in debt.
Cardiff has one of the lowest wage bills in the championship last season

 at May 2017, Cardiff has a net deficit of £108m, including £115m of debt to their shareholders. They then had a net spend of £10m on players, and assuming a similar loss to that year (£27m) they were probably about £135m+ in debt by the time they reached the Premier League.

Burnley is a better example but they still ran up a small amount of debt in getting promoted the first time.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #53 on February 23, 2019, 03:14:14 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Cardiff city and Burnley have both reached the premier league without spending a fortune or putting themselves in debt.
Cardiff has one of the lowest wage bills in the championship last season

Dickos

Do you actually look at numbers before you post these claims?

Cardiff, as several of us have pointed out, ran up debts of over £100m getting to the PL.

Burnley lost nearly £13m in the two years leading up to their 2013/14 promotion, despite getting parachute payments.

dickos1

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #54 on February 24, 2019, 10:31:41 pm by dickos1 »
Aye the first time maybe,
But last season they had the third smallest wage bill in the division and got promoted.
Therefore they reached the premiership without spending millions and bankrupting themselves.
The first time Burnley went up they did so on a shoestring,

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #55 on February 24, 2019, 10:56:01 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Dickos.

No. Not the first time Cardiff were promoted to the PL. THIS most recent time.

In their audited, publicly available accounts up to June 2017, they had an overall debt of £108m. They lost £20m that season.

If you're claiming they had the 3rd lowest wage bill in the Championship last season, I'd love to see where you got  your figures from, seeing as how most clubs won't file their accounts for last season until this summer. But bearing in mind that their wage bill for 2016/17 in their audited accounts was £21m, it'd be some effort for them to have got it down into the lowest 3 the following season.

I'll be fascinated to see your numbers.

dickos1

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #56 on February 24, 2019, 11:17:17 pm by dickos1 »
Neil warnock said it on the radio, may not be correct but he would be a bit silly to make numbers up that anyone can view further down the line.
They were signing players like mandez Laing on free transfers from Rochdale,
They were amongst the favourites to go down that season similar to Huddersfield the year before, yet both reached the prem.
almost all clubs lose money each year not just the ones getting promoted

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #57 on February 25, 2019, 12:02:53 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Neil Warnock said it...?

Right. Well we'll see this summer then, won't we, when the accounts are published?

Two possibilities.
1) Warnock reduced the wage bill by £10m and got them promoted last season.
2) Warnock was talking ba-baa.

Do you want to go all-in on which one it was?

And then there's the issue about all clubs being in debt. Do all clubs end up with a £110m debt? Which you dismiss as not a very big debt?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 12:07:08 am by BillyStubbsTears »

NickDRFC

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #58 on February 25, 2019, 07:06:32 am by NickDRFC »
Neil warnock said it on the radio, may not be correct but he would be a bit silly to make numbers up that anyone can view further down the line.
They were signing players like mandez Laing on free transfers from Rochdale,
They were amongst the favourites to go down that season similar to Huddersfield the year before, yet both reached the prem.
almost all clubs lose money each year not just the ones getting promoted


Wouldn’t be like Neil Warnock to try and over-egg his achievements would it?


We can revisit it when the accounts are released over the next few months, but I bet you a £20 charity bet that Cardiff’s wage bill wasn’t in the lowest 3 for the division. I’ll even double your chances and offer you a win if it was in the bottom 6.

dickos1

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Re: Never ever want to get to the Premier league
« Reply #59 on February 25, 2019, 07:27:48 am by dickos1 »
Maybe
But even if he is exaggerating they certainly won’t have had a wage bill in the top 3.
Most of the championship clubs will be in debt, sides like Rotherham even. You’ve got to spend just to survive in that league, doesn’t mean getting promotion always destroys the club.

 

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