Mike Dean after The Keepmoat he referees Burnley v The "Cry Babies"

[Colemans Left Hook]

I saw the cry babies  "throwing their toys out of the pram" post match after their defeat today and thought I recognisd that referee 

Perhaps Rovers could develop another revenue stream with Grant McCann giving courses for managers on how to "handle" losing a football match.

ironically in the reverse fixture the "babies" got an injury time winner.

SAT 15 Dec 2018 Premier League
Tottenham Hotspur 1 Burnley 0

    Eriksen (90'+1 minutes) FT   what comes around goes around.

[drfchound]

Watching the highlights of Leicester v Palace on MOTD, I noticed that Palace employed the offside striker ploy again.
For the second goal, Batshuai is stood three or four yards beyond the last defender as the ball is crossed to Zaha.
Zaha put the ball in the net.
However, if Schmeicel had saved it, Batshui would have had a simple second phase of play tap in.
Alternatively, if Zaha had pulled the ball back to Batshuai he would have had a different second phase tap in.

[selby]

  Hound I noticed that, the first thing that came to mind was the fixture they have against Manchester United this Wednesday, and was just wondering what the interpretation of the law would be if they try that stunt in that game?
 I will watch with interest.

[drfchound]

  Hound I noticed that, the first thing that came to mind was the fixture they have against Manchester United this Wednesday, and was just wondering what the interpretation of the law would be if they try that stunt in that game?
 I will watch with interest.

Ha, I wondered whether anyone else has picked up on it.
It is too much of a coincidence for it not to be something they have worked on.

However, as you say, if they do it against Manure they will probably not get away with it.

[selby]

  The thing was hound when he was in the offside position he was directly in front of the keeper in his vision.

[donnievic]

  The thing was hound when he was in the offside position he was directly in front of the keeper in his vision.

he wasn’t and it wasn’t a shot at goal either the ball didn’t end up going to him and zags was well onside

[drfchound]

  The thing was hound when he was in the offside position he was directly in front of the keeper in his vision.

he wasn’t and it wasn’t a shot at goal either the ball didn’t end up going to him and zags was well onside

Zags? wasn’t offside, we agreed on that.
The point being that if he had pulled it back then Batshuai would have been deemed to be onside (second phase) as he would have been if Smikes (Schmicael)had saved Zahas shot and it had rebounded to Bats (Batshuai).

[selby]

   Let's see on Wednesday, it is 50/50 whether it is the same against Manchester United although it might be Ok at the other end.

[VivaRovers]

  The thing was hound when he was in the offside position he was directly in front of the keeper in his vision.

he wasn’t and it wasn’t a shot at goal either the ball didn’t end up going to him and zags was well onside

Zags? wasn’t offside, we agreed on that.
The point being that if he had pulled it back then Batshuai would have been deemed to be onside (second phase) as he would have been if Smikes (Schmicael)had saved Zahas shot and it had rebounded to Bats (Batshuai).

There isn't anything about 'phases of play' in the offside law. The difference between a shot and a cross that's played square or pulled back is that the shot is played forwards. For a player to be offside, the ball needs to be played forwards.

[drfchound]

  The thing was hound when he was in the offside position he was directly in front of the keeper in his vision.

he wasn’t and it wasn’t a shot at goal either the ball didn’t end up going to him and zags was well onside

Zags? wasn’t offside, we agreed on that.
The point being that if he had pulled it back then Batshuai would have been deemed to be onside (second phase) as he would have been if Smikes (Schmicael)had saved Zahas shot and it had rebounded to Bats (Batshuai).

There isn't anything about 'phases of play' in the offside law. The difference between a shot and a cross that's played square or pulled back is that the shot is played forwards. For a player to be offside, the ball needs to be played forwards.

Viva, I know as much about the offside rule as anyone else.
However your description is not 100% correct.
A player could hit a shot, forwards obviously, that rebounds back into play, either off the keeper or a post.
Another player could put the ball into the net legally as long as he was behind the player who hit the original shot, as he actually did so.

However, what myself and selby were discussing was the fact that twice in recent matches we have noticed that Palace appear to have a tactic of leaving a player in the box, three yards beyond the last defender.
They then play a diagonal ball to a runner in a wider position, who is legally onside.
That player then has the option of cutting the ball back across goal to the first player who then has an unchallenged tap in.

We are both well aware that he isn’t offside in that situation.

[VivaRovers]

I'm not describing anything and there isn't anything I've written that isn't correct.
There isn't anything in the law of offside about phases of play.
For a player to be offside the ball needs to be played forwards.

[selby]

  Hound, do you ever think that we don't see what is happening on a football field after Over 60 Yrs of watching and playing?

[VivaRovers]

Apologies, have just checked the offside law again and there are two versions. If you've watched and played the game for over 60 years then it does mention "phases of play"; it's just the one for people who are under 40 that doesn't have any reference to "phases of play". My mistake, carry on gents.

[selby]

  Viva, pull your horns in, neither Hound or I said that he was offside to the current interpretation of the law, just that the Palace had repeated how they had manufactured their second goal at the Keepmoat, with a player purposely going beyond the defensive line in the area while play continues and he  is eventually on side behind the player with the ball but in both instances free of a marker.
  And by the way the manager who looks as though he has introduced it is over 70 years old and can probably like myself remember Romario doing it for Brazil in some World Cup games  years ago. The old ones are still the best it seems.

[DaveDRFC]

A lot of teams do this now, it is within the laws of the game so why wouldn't they? I watched a rerun of Man City vs Burton (the 9-0 game) the other day, Gabriel Jesus did it for 2 of his goals. For one of them they even used VAR to see if the original pass to another player was onside, he was stood about 6 yards offside at that time then just side-footed into an empty net when it was squared to him.

Not really sure why it has become such a heated discussion on here, it used to be offside but isn't anymore because the law has changed, not that difficult to understand. Do some people still wonder why the keeper doesn't pick the ball up when a defender passes back to him?

[IDM]

This is why you don’t see the linesman (or woman) raising the flag until the player who was in the offside position receives or challenges for the ball, leading to fan frustration..

[selby]

  Dave DRFC, No to the not picking a back pass up, but YES to the length of time they hold it in their hands over the 6 seconds when they do pick it up.

[donnievic]

I'm not describing anything and there isn't anything I've written that isn't correct.
There isn't anything in the law of offside about phases of play.
For a player to be offside the ball needs to be played forwards.

it has also got to be played to that person or he go to make attempt to play the ball,or in a offside position when sumone is shooting at goal

[VivaRovers]

Yes donnievic, there are more specifics to the law than the two I mentioned. I was just reiterating the two points I'd made in the previous post.

[VivaRovers]

  Viva, pull your horns in, neither Hound or I said that he was offside to the current interpretation of the law...

Likewise yourself. I didn't at any point suggest you had. I was just pointing out that there is nothing in the offside law about "phases of play".

[drfchound]

A lot of teams do this now, it is within the laws of the game so why wouldn't they? I watched a rerun of Man City vs Burton (the 9-0 game) the other day, Gabriel Jesus did it for 2 of his goals. For one of them they even used VAR to see if the original pass to another player was onside, he was stood about 6 yards offside at that time then just side-footed into an empty net when it was squared to him.

Not really sure why it has become such a heated discussion on here, it used to be offside but isn't anymore because the law has changed, not that difficult to understand. Do some people still wonder why the keeper doesn't pick the ball up when a defender passes back to him?

Dave, I also don’t know why the discussion got heated.
Selby and I were talking about how Palace appear to have scored a couple of goals and before you know it, well you have read the other posts.

I used the phrase “second phase of play” because it had been used extensively on the thread about the Palace game and particularly about their second goal against us.

Both selby and myself know very well that the said phrase isn’t mentioned in the laws of the game but it is used by “expert analysts” on the tv.