Sir john

[silent majority]

Drover,

You seem to be having a problem with what I write. Let me be clear, I have never, ever, put on this forum or anywhere else the true story of any of the takeover bids that JR initiated. I have kept that to myself for all kinds of reasons. If I wanted to backstab, like you accuse me of, then I would have made everything public, including all the documentation I have in my possession. But I haven't done that.

As BRR has already pointed out to you I only ever talk about those takeover bids because I was involved at that time, the previous incidents have nothing to do with me. I described John, in one of my very first meetings with our new CEO, as somebody who could walk on water, such was the high regard I had for him.

So, to suggest I diss him every time someone praises him is also false. But people like you, who claim that JR was reckless, even desperate (as you put it) in his hopes to reach the Premiership have completely the wrong end of the stick. JR lied. He lied to you, me and every other Rovers supporter. He lied to the media, and others that were part of his plans. That, for me, is unforgivable. I won't be taken in. You can believe what you want to believe, I don't have that luxury.

[Lifelong supporter]

So, if you're saying JR made it personal first you must be agreeing it is personal for SM now.
As I said, glad we got that one sorted out.
I've already stated I think JR made big mistakes towards the end but I'm not aware of Louis saying he lied to him.
Perhaps you could provide chapter and verse.

You really need to study logic more, it doesn't mean that at all. I have no idea if SM is being personal, I'm just pointing out that he has every right to take it personally if he wants to.

If that's anything to do with logic I really must be Dave Parker!
You probably got it right with the first four words of your second sentence.

[Lifelong supporter]

So, if you're saying JR made it personal first you must be agreeing it is personal for SM now.
As I said, glad we got that one sorted out.
I've already stated I think JR made big mistakes towards the end but I'm not aware of Louis saying he lied to him.
Perhaps you could provide chapter and verse.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers/i-was-misled-claims-pop-star-tomlinson-over-failed-doncaster-takeover-1-6735649

And JR specifically told the fans that the Crowdfunder initiative was NOT the source of funds for the takeover. When it was all along. Using your own distorted view of logic, that must mean you're happy with him coming out with that whopper to everybody.

Thanks for the link but nowhere there does Louis say that JR had lied to him.
I think this ought to be my last comment on the subject.
I made the point with my first post that SM takes every opportunity to blacken JR's name and it seems to be personal.
I don't think that's right.
If you do that's your prerogative.

[redarmy82]

Drover,

You seem to be having a problem with what I write. Let me be clear, I have never, ever, put on this forum or anywhere else the true story of any of the takeover bids that JR initiated. I have kept that to myself for all kinds of reasons. If I wanted to backstab, like you accuse me of, then I would have made everything public, including all the documentation I have in my possession. But I haven't done that.

As BRR has already pointed out to you I only ever talk about those takeover bids because I was involved at that time, the previous incidents have nothing to do with me. I described John, in one of my very first meetings with our new CEO, as somebody who could walk on water, such was the high regard I had for him.

So, to suggest I diss him every time someone praises him is also false. But people like you, who claim that JR was reckless, even desperate (as you put it) in his hopes to reach the Premiership have completely the wrong end of the stick. JR lied. He lied to you, me and every other Rovers supporter. He lied to the media, and others that were part of his plans. That, for me, is unforgivable. I won't be taken in. You can believe what you want to believe, I don't have that luxury.

Unless you prove, then I will take that with a very large pinch of salt.

[johnny rovers]

So, if you're saying JR made it personal first you must be agreeing it is personal for SM now.
As I said, glad we got that one sorted out.
I've already stated I think JR made big mistakes towards the end but I'm not aware of Louis saying he lied to him.
Perhaps you could provide chapter and verse.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers/i-was-misled-claims-pop-star-tomlinson-over-failed-doncaster-takeover-1-6735649

And JR specifically told the fans that the Crowdfunder initiative was NOT the source of funds for the takeover. When it was all along. Using your own distorted view of logic, that must mean you're happy with him coming out with that whopper to everybody.

Thanks for the link but nowhere there does Louis say that JR had lied to him.
I think this ought to be my last comment on the subject.
I made the point with my first post that SM takes every opportunity to blacken JR's name and it seems to be personal.
I don't think that's right.
If you do that's your prerogative.

Well it wasn't the tooth fairy that lied to him!!

[silent majority]

Drover,

You seem to be having a problem with what I write. Let me be clear, I have never, ever, put on this forum or anywhere else the true story of any of the takeover bids that JR initiated. I have kept that to myself for all kinds of reasons. If I wanted to backstab, like you accuse me of, then I would have made everything public, including all the documentation I have in my possession. But I haven't done that.

As BRR has already pointed out to you I only ever talk about those takeover bids because I was involved at that time, the previous incidents have nothing to do with me. I described John, in one of my very first meetings with our new CEO, as somebody who could walk on water, such was the high regard I had for him.

So, to suggest I diss him every time someone praises him is also false. But people like you, who claim that JR was reckless, even desperate (as you put it) in his hopes to reach the Premiership have completely the wrong end of the stick. JR lied. He lied to you, me and every other Rovers supporter. He lied to the media, and others that were part of his plans. That, for me, is unforgivable. I won't be taken in. You can believe what you want to believe, I don't have that luxury.

Unless you prove, then I will take that with a very large pinch of salt.

Prove what exactly? That JR lied about his source of funds, or that JR lied about the partnership between him and LT leading the takeover? All proven, hence failing the EFL's Owners and Directors test.

[silent majority]

So, if you're saying JR made it personal first you must be agreeing it is personal for SM now.
As I said, glad we got that one sorted out.
I've already stated I think JR made big mistakes towards the end but I'm not aware of Louis saying he lied to him.
Perhaps you could provide chapter and verse.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers/i-was-misled-claims-pop-star-tomlinson-over-failed-doncaster-takeover-1-6735649

And JR specifically told the fans that the Crowdfunder initiative was NOT the source of funds for the takeover. When it was all along. Using your own distorted view of logic, that must mean you're happy with him coming out with that whopper to everybody.

Thanks for the link but nowhere there does Louis say that JR had lied to him.
I think this ought to be my last comment on the subject.
I made the point with my first post that SM takes every opportunity to blacken JR's name and it seems to be personal.
I don't think that's right.
If you do that's your prerogative.

Yes it should be your last comment.

If you and your compatriots had done their job properly instead of sucking up to him and helping mislead the Rovers supporters into believing what they were being fed then none of this would have played out the way it did. The blackening of JR's name was done by JR himself, not me.

By the way, you should go back and read that article and take particular note of the final paragraph. Says it all really.

[Drover]

Drover,

You seem to be having a problem with what I write. Let me be clear, I have never, ever, put on this forum or anywhere else the true story of any of the takeover bids that JR initiated. I have kept that to myself for all kinds of reasons. If I wanted to backstab, like you accuse me of, then I would have made everything public, including all the documentation I have in my possession. But I haven't done that.

As BRR has already pointed out to you I only ever talk about those takeover bids because I was involved at that time, the previous incidents have nothing to do with me. I described John, in one of my very first meetings with our new CEO, as somebody who could walk on water, such was the high regard I had for him.

So, to suggest I diss him every time someone praises him is also false. But people like you, who claim that JR was reckless, even desperate (as you put it) in his hopes to reach the Premiership have completely the wrong end of the stick. JR lied. He lied to you, me and every other Rovers supporter. He lied to the media, and others that were part of his plans. That, for me, is unforgivable. I won't be taken in. You can believe what you want to believe, I don't have that luxury.

And there we have it,JR lied to you and you took it personally!

Isn't lying something some people do when they are desperate then?

You can say you have this document,that document,this proof,that proof,JR did this,JR did that,BUT we have all read what you continually post about him on here,and when many of us continue to appreciate alot of what he has done,we do so taking into account what you say too.
P.s. Your ARE blackening JR by your continously commenting about him on here.Icve never seen JR  post or saying anything about you.

[silent majority]

Drover,

You seem to be having a problem with what I write. Let me be clear, I have never, ever, put on this forum or anywhere else the true story of any of the takeover bids that JR initiated. I have kept that to myself for all kinds of reasons. If I wanted to backstab, like you accuse me of, then I would have made everything public, including all the documentation I have in my possession. But I haven't done that.

As BRR has already pointed out to you I only ever talk about those takeover bids because I was involved at that time, the previous incidents have nothing to do with me. I described John, in one of my very first meetings with our new CEO, as somebody who could walk on water, such was the high regard I had for him.

So, to suggest I diss him every time someone praises him is also false. But people like you, who claim that JR was reckless, even desperate (as you put it) in his hopes to reach the Premiership have completely the wrong end of the stick. JR lied. He lied to you, me and every other Rovers supporter. He lied to the media, and others that were part of his plans. That, for me, is unforgivable. I won't be taken in. You can believe what you want to believe, I don't have that luxury.

And there we have it,JR lied to you and you took it personally!

Is'nt lying something some people do when they are desperate then?

You can say you have this document,that document,this proof,that proof,JR did this,JR did that,BUT we have all read what you continually post about him on here,and when many of us continue to appreciate alot of what he has done,we do so taking into account what you say too.
P.s. Your ARE blackening JR by your continously comments about him on here.Ive never seen JR  post or saying anything about you.

That's just ridiculous.

I didn't take his lies personally. I did something about it, just like anybody responsible for running a supporters trust should do.

Grow up.

[donny dave]

For crying out loud Everyone just give it a rest now.

[graingrover]

Well done SM then and now and thankyou !

[redarmy82]

Well done SM then and now and thankyou !

Jeez.

[roversdude]

Drover,

You seem to be having a problem with what I write. Let me be clear, I have never, ever, put on this forum or anywhere else the true story of any of the takeover bids that JR initiated. I have kept that to myself for all kinds of reasons. If I wanted to backstab, like you accuse me of, then I would have made everything public, including all the documentation I have in my possession. But I haven't done that.

As BRR has already pointed out to you I only ever talk about those takeover bids because I was involved at that time, the previous incidents have nothing to do with me. I described John, in one of my very first meetings with our new CEO, as somebody who could walk on water, such was the high regard I had for him.

So, to suggest I diss him every time someone praises him is also false. But people like you, who claim that JR was reckless, even desperate (as you put it) in his hopes to reach the Premiership have completely the wrong end of the stick. JR lied. He lied to you, me and every other Rovers supporter. He lied to the media, and others that were part of his plans. That, for me, is unforgivable. I won't be taken in. You can believe what you want to believe, I don't have that luxury.

And there we have it,JR lied to you and you took it personally!

Isn't lying something some people do when they are desperate then?

You can say you have this document,that document,this proof,that proof,JR did this,JR did that,BUT we have all read what you continually post about him on here,and when many of us continue to appreciate alot of what he has done,we do so taking into account what you say too.
P.s. Your ARE blackening JR by your continously commenting about him on here.Icve never seen JR  post or saying anything about you.

I must have missed all of those JR slagging comments in the past.
Yeah we can all be thankful for what JR did for the club and these are my personal views, great that he saved us but certainly lost the plot towards the end, god forbid we could now be in the same position as Bolton or Bury

[donny dave]

Enough now.

[DonnyOsmond]

f**king hell let's move on.

[Bollinger]

Moving off in a slightly different tangent it strikes me that Pete Wetzel's part in Rovers' recovery from the abyss gets forgotten. JR may have been the energetic driving force initially but it certainly wasn't a one man job behind the scenes.

[Al4475]

It wasn't just wetzel though was it - there were others (clear and not so clear) throughout all of JR's time that never got the credit they deserved.

That's one of the things that makes a few people upset - it was never a one man show yet JR wanted people to believe it was always all him.

Even the early days when things were going great it was all about what he was doing for the club - not what others were - take the KMS - so much of that particular success was down to Andy Liney but he barely got credit from JR.

The money folk were putting in - John's demanded an agreement with the other big two in the triumvirate heydey that despite being infinitely wealthier than he they weren't able to pump in more than he could get his hands on (admittedly they could've said 'no' to that but as chairman I s'pose he had the final sway and perhaps it was the only way he's allow them on board) - he needed to be the be all and all in his eyes - that may have meant less of a spend than Rovers wanted/needed.

Before anybody jumps down my throat about this - John took me to task on that particular issue when I was in the middle of half-time announcing one year - that in itself said lots to me - there was I trying to do a job I'd volunteered for being argued the toss with in the middle of the pitch one half-time by the then chairman of the club! Crackers!

The whole Willie McKay palaver - that cost the club so much money - and we were told it was costing us next to nowt - the accounts show that wasn't the case.

Tax bills that tb/dw ended up paying out for from their own pockets, talk of very dodgy monetary dealings and bonuses, the hedge fund takeover bids etc etc etc - at one of the mto events just after john left - tb told the audience very clearly that john had spent 17m of their money needlessly on sorting administrative stuff out. Even Billy Sharp's wages came directly from dw's pockets.

The list goes on of the sad end to JR's reign and how it came about. In fact I am sure that (tho I can't remember where - radio sheff perhaps) didn't SO'D once say in an interview that if it ever became a power struggle to run DRFC between JR and TB that there's only be one winner - and it wouldn't be the one fan's thought?
Being aware of all of this - makes me question how much of the earlier successes may have been built on other people's monies in the background without any major acknowledgment from JR himself that this was the case.

I've been waiting a long time to be able to put some of this in writing - not because of any hatred of JR - just because for too long, in my opinion, he became in his eyes the sole saviour and white knight of DRFC - that wasn't the case.

[Drover]

Thank you for that Al.Finally a post with some but not all,information that I was'nt aware of.Not a repeated rebuff everytime JR was mentioned.We all have our own opinions of individuals and will do with all the information provided taken into account.Like Rigo says,I like to remember the good memories of the ride,and have many fond ones.Please realise though,Im too,supremely grateful for what TB and DW and all there collegues including Martin,who help them run/invest/improve the club like they currently do and extremley grateful they never walked away,when many others would have in the past.
RTID

[DonnyBazR0ver]

There was a long list of shareholders in Patienceform available for all to see, who contributed to that success. Yes JR sold the dream to those too and we all benefitted. There's no doubt his ambition drove the club forward.

When the shit hit the fan with the first takeover, people forget about the co-ordinated slur campaign against TB & DW, with the VSC being caught in the crossfire. When S_M defended their true posituon, there were those who took this as an attack on JR. When someone was under attack and came under great personal stress you can understand why S_M occasionally challenges comments that paint an untrue picture of events at the time.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I agree, no one doubts the relationship JR had with mangers and players...until things went sour for a number of reasons.. And as repeated, we all benefited and were extremely grateful to JR for pulling us up from the abyss. They were great times. You may remember a phrase that JR used in the media to describe the relationship of the "Three Musketeers' when he said “The three ducks are not quite in a row“. Which ultimately signalled changing of the guard.

All good things come to an end and thankfully, the club has gone through those uncertain times and we are now in a good position compared to some other clubs.

Ideally, I think we all would have wished for the three muskateers to have continued to work together.

[silent majority]

John made Andy Liney a director? You do realise the VSC had to pay for that benefit?

[Drover]

John made Andy Liney a director? You do realise the VSC had to pay for that benefit?

So if I get someone to pay for me,I can become a Director?

[silent majority]

Circa August 2007, yes, he did - director/board member of DRFC.

It had nowt to do with the VSC at that time as it was in the aftermath of Andy resigning as VSC Chairman. That position was vacant and eventually took up by that bloke from Reading or Maidenhead or somewhere that way on, whose name I can’t recall now.

I know as I was in regular contact with all parties at the time, given it was at pretty much exactly the same time as Nigel Wroe off Yaurs was trying to take myself, Filo and others to court.

Rigo,

Give it a rest, I have the paperwork here in my office which was signed by both parties.

[silent majority]

John made Andy Liney a director? You do realise the VSC had to pay for that benefit?

So if I get someone to pay for me,I can become a Director?

I'm sure if you're willing to cough up a few million a year I can't see why not.

[Dr Fundlekrotch]

The VSC were promised a seat on the board to represent the fans in return for £50k of investment, which was what it took to become a director at the time.

Rigo - you are misremembering.  We had a director on the board within 18 months of becoming active and it was always Andy (I stood against him in the election, but always knew he would beat me).  John Ryan had expressed a hope that I would win because he thought Andy was a bit mouthy at the time but I'm glad he got the role (I could never have done what he did) and it didn't take John long to realise what an asset Andy was.

[Dr Fundlekrotch]

You are right - He got the 'honorary' directorship in recognition of what he'd achieved previously and that was separate to the VSC

[Nudga]

Well i don't like JR. In the league 2 championship celebrations at the Mansion House, i was invited in by one if my then Councillor friends.
JR spotted me and my other mate who came and said "who the f**k are these? How did they f**kin get in here?

He was furious. Never understood why as we were stood out of the way not bothering anyone.
I left after a couple of minutes because i was sick of the Kitson giving me evils.

[Drover]

John made Andy Liney a director? You do realise the VSC had to pay for that benefit?

So if I get someone to pay for me,I can become a Director?

I'm sure if you're willing to cough up a few million a year I can't see why not.

So the VSC coughed up a few million for Andy to be a director?Think you misunderstood,I think rigo was refering to Andy being appreciated by being made a director,when a previous post indicator he was possibly unappreciated.But hey lets use it to have another dig.

[Drover]

Well i don't like JR. In the league 2 championship celebrations at the Mansion House, i was invited in by one if my then Councillor friends.
JR spotted me and my other mate who came and said "who the f**k are these? How did they f**kin get in here?

He was furious. Never understood why as we were stood out of the way not bothering anyone.
I left after a couple of minutes because i was sick of the Kitson giving me evils.

Well i don't like JR. In the league 2 championship celebrations at the Mansion House, i was invited in by one if my then Councillor friends.
JR spotted me and my other mate who came and said "who the f**k are these? How did they f**kin get in here?

He was furious. Never understood why as we were stood out of the way not bothering anyone.
I left after a couple of minutes because i was sick of the Kitson giving me evils.

I met him once in passing and he gave me a look of,who are you,I've no time for you,but there are lots of people like that,especially businessmen,but It sounds like he went over the top with you and your mate Nudga.Shame and I can see why you don't like him.I guess you don't want to friend request him on Facebook?

[silent majority]

John made Andy Liney a director? You do realise the VSC had to pay for that benefit?

So if I get someone to pay for me,I can become a Director?

I'm sure if you're willing to cough up a few million a year I can't see why not.

So the VSC coughed up a few million for Andy to be a director?Think you misunderstood,I think rigo was refering to Andy being appreciated by being made a director,when a previous post indicator he was possibly unappreciated.But hey lets use it to have another dig.

Dig, what dig?

I was suggesting if you wanted to become a director today then it would cost you a few million, as it does our current owners/directors.