Who Wants Boris To Fail?

[SydneyRover]

What a daft question. Who on earth wants our country to fail.

Anyone who assumes that is what other people want should stop and reflect on their own values.

I absolutely knew what your response would be. So, so predictable...... And out of touch with reality, as usual!

I absolutely knew that you'd put up such a predictable topic. So, so predictable...... And out of touch with reality, as usual!

[Donnywolf]

Well Boris?

Ah but as a (supposed) Politician he will either fail to answer that particular question or more likely say something like that was then this is now. Different scenario / horses for courses blah blah f*****g blah

I want to live in a sucessful country but like RTR posted above #61, I (as Kevin Keegan once said) would LOVE it absolutely LOVE it if he was finally exposed as the chancer he looks to be.

I mean COME ON he has angled for the top job since he wanted to be "World King" so much so he did not know which way to position himself in the EU debate and so had 2 speeches / letters written and awaited to see which way to jump that being the one that would bring him closer to his dream job

For the sake of clarity I DO hope he fails spectacularly - however the UK I want to muddle through this current mess and come out of the other side and flourish, though the latter looks less likely that the former

[Bentley Bullet]

DW. I suppose when it comes to decision making it's good to weigh up the pros and cons. If it means writing out two essays, one in favour of one side and one in favour of the other so be it. I bet some of the most dedicated Remainers/Brexiters could declare good points on either side.

Perhaps Jezza Corbyn might have given more of an indication of his stance if he'd done the same.

Which squeaky clean politician do you have in mind to replace Boris?

[DonnyOsmond]

Filo, are you one of those people who keep saying people have changed their minds in the last three years therfore we should have another referendum.
   But will not let give Boris Johnson credit for changing his mind when it suits.

No, I’m one of those that will chage my mind when presented with the facts that proves I was wrong, not a chancer that sits on the fence and waits to see which way the wind blows

is that not what the Labour Party are doing filo, first they backed brexit, then were unsure now that the Lib Dem’s and greens have took there vote they now want a 2nd referendum, if somehow boris can get a deal thru the house(which I doubt) they would then no doubt change there mind again

They're following the line from their Conference Hun x

[Donnywolf]

BB - I have no faith in any current Politician (other than those who dont have the power to do anything as they are not "career" Politicians). So I dont favour anyone because none of the "career" Politicians tell the truth as you and I are old enough to know and / or have seen

I also have no faith in the FPTP system of voting either - and desperately hope we ditch it soon

[Herbert Anchovy]

I guarantee that over the next few weeks we’ll see a huge PR campaign to try and convince us that BJ is a reliable and safe PM. Of course,  This will totally ignore the fact that he’s utterly ignorant to the reality of life for the vast majority of people in the U.K.

[bobjimwilly]

I want Boris to fail because if he "succeeds" it means lower taxes for the rich, privatisation of the NHS and possibly a big step towards a reliance on medical insurance, fewer opportunites for the working class, greater barriers to social mobility, a stronger voice for the far right, a greater reliance on imports from the US, and potentially a catastrophic no deal brexit.

He stands for nothing apart from himself, he is a proven liar, a genuine charlaton, and will vote for whichever side is winning an argument.

I want him to fail big time.

[i_ateallthepies]

I want Boris to fail because if he "succeeds" it means lower taxes for the rich, privatisation of the NHS and possibly a big step towards a reliance on medical insurance, fewer opportunites for the working class, greater barriers to social mobility, a stronger voice for the far right, a greater reliance on imports from the US, and potentially a catastrophic no deal brexit.

He stands for nothing apart from himself, he is a proven liar, a genuine charlaton, and will vote for whichever side is winning an argument.

I want him to fail big time.

Bang on the money, BJW.  Anyone who cannot see that deserves him to succeed.

[bobjimwilly]

in his speech he says he wants to restore trust in his democracy. how about a peoples votes and/or a general election then, Boris?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I think the fundamental problem with BB's original question is becoming clear.

By "fail", it's unclear whether we take that as "fail to implement his policies" or "fail to produce the best outcome for the country."

Clearly, it's possible to succeed in terms of implementing ones policies, while failing the country (think: Chamberlain and Appeasement) and vice versa (think: Cameron promising a Brexit Referendum). So the original question is too simplistic to elicit definitive responses.

Who'd have thought it eh? A simple question could hide all manner of complexity in the answer!

[Bentley Bullet]

What a daft question. Who on earth wants our country to fail.

Anyone who assumes that is what other people want should stop and reflect on their own values.

Wasn't such a daft question after all, eh, Billy lad? It appears I assumed right, doesn't it?

Does this thread make you proud?

[wilts rover]

To date Mr Johnson has appointed as:

Chancellor - a man who was personally involved in the financial crash

Home Secretary - a woman who supports the re-introduction of hanging, starving Ireland to get a deal and who was sacked by the previous PM for a secret plot for British taxpayers to fund the Israeli Army

Foreign Secretary - a man who didn't realise the importance of Dover as a port

Senior Advisor - a man who has been charged with contempt of parliament

and has begun his campaign to unite the country by sacking anyone who didn't agree with him. Welcome to your new PM people

[BillyStubbsTears]

Unfortunate timing BB, that last post.

[Bentley Bullet]

I think all your posts on this thread have been unfortunate, BST, not just your last one.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It is truly like talking to a precocious 12 year old who's never had a clip round the ear hole.

[Bentley Bullet]

I find it is truly like talking to a bitter and twisted old lefty who has immatured with age.

[Bentley Bullet]

Quick......Where's your handful of disciples? They should be queueing up by now!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bizarre. Utterly bizarre.

[Bentley Bullet]

What's not bizarre is your refusal to answer my questions.

[Donnywolf]

To date Mr Johnson has appointed as:

Chancellor - a man who was personally involved in the financial crash

Home Secretary - a woman who supports the re-introduction of hanging, starving Ireland to get a deal and who was sacked by the previous PM for a secret plot for British taxpayers to fund the Israeli Army

Foreign Secretary - a man who didn't realise the importance of Dover as a port

Senior Advisor - a man who has been charged with contempt of parliament

and has begun his campaign to unite the country by sacking anyone who didn't agree with him. Welcome to your new PM people

Complete w****r

Him not you of course Wilts

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just seen Johnson's speech outside No10.

Once you get past the stupid, vacuous bombast, it's possible the most frightening speech I've ever heard from a British PM.

He hammers on about how the backstop cannot be accepted and how he will strike a new deal. But he KNOWS there's no new deal to be had without the backstop. He KNOWS. So what he's doing, is, once again, deceiving people into thinking Brussels is the baddy.

And then, this is where it gets really worrying.

He says, if by some vanishingly small chance, Brussels doesn't give him his better deal (totally undefined...sound familiar...?) then we'd have no option but to leave with no deal. That's the Bulldog Spirit! Whipping up the easily fooled into a frenzy of patriotism.

But.

He KNOWS what the effect of No Deal would be. He was reported to be "visibly shaken" by a briefing on the problems that we'd face in the event of No Deal. He has no intention of taking us to No Deal because that would be a calamity.

But he DOES have the intention of forcing Parliament to stop him. Thereby making MPs the baddies again. The ones who will have the ire of the 15m people that he's deceived for 3 years turned on them.

He's a Kitson. A self-serving, amoral Kitson who will rip this country apart to further his aims.

[albie]

Reasonable summary by John Rentoul in the Indy;
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-reshuffle-cabinet-patel-raab-general-election-a9019661.html

Drive towards the cliff at a reckless speed, force opponents to put the brakes on, call a "back me or sack me" GE on the Brexit pledge, get Nige to oppose Labour in Leave areas......and maybe get 5 years to run riot.

Cabinet chosen for loyalty to Brexit and dedication to personal advancement.
So maybe the answer to the OP is that Boris wants to fail....in the first instance, in order to dig in deeper for the long haul?

The arrival of Cummins is ominous...... a big beast among a retinue of low grade under achievers.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So Albie. You're now seeing the summer/autumn I was describing back in the spring. What does Labour do now? Twiddle its thumbs, mumble stuff about maybe-this, maybe-that and wait for Conference?

[SydneyRover]

The blue touch paper has been lit, I just hope it's boris that explodes and not the country.

[albie]

BST,

I sometimes think that you don't really get politics!

You have argued for months that Ref2 should be the aim.
That was what your main argument was back in the spring. It was never a front runner.

The idea that the opposition could have changed the geometry with a policy change is away with the faeries.

That was never going to be an attraction to a Borump administration.....only risks to handle, a potentially indecisive outcome,
and no change in the HoC numbers to make the government viable.

Borump knows that his only chance is to get a mandate which gives him authority to continue, if he fails to bully the HoC with the "No Deal" default.
Even if he did manage to push through "No Deal", a GE would be required to shift the power blockage.
Farrago will need to be fed with an interest in the outcome beyond the rejection of "No Deal" by the HoC.

What does Labour do.....move a vote of confidence in September, after the Party conference.
That is realistically all it can do.

I have more faith than you in Labour going into an election, once Borump has shown his true colours.

[bahrain rover]

To be honest I am glad I am well out of this mess. Only thing connecting me to the UK is my passport. The fact that Iran is just over the water from me is worrying me less than being back in the UK in this calamity would be.

[Donnywolf]

Very good point bahrain rover - and sad that I am the polar opposite

Sat in Thorne watching, seeing and listening as our Country "goes to the dogs" and like some on here old enough to have seen most things in the past and yet the current mess (not exclusively leaving the EU either) is really for me totally unprecedented

I try not to read and certainly NOT to write anything in the politicised section of the Forum because as the Referendum and other issues are so divisive no argument could ever be won

.... here I am again though lol. Good luck with Iran and I am sure the Passport will (one day) probably be back to its near best 

[turnbull for england]

And labour seize on the opportunity and  steam in  decisively https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1154005372753129474?s=19 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie.

There's a General Election coming up in Sept/Oct.

Labour are polling at levels unseen by anyone under 100 years old. They have lost several million Remain supporters to a LD party which has been ressucitated by Labour's Brexit policy. The party leader has the worst approval figures of any LotO since records began but is untouchable.

All of that was predictable and predicted. (It was predicted by me two years ago actually, but you crack on lecturing me about what I don't know about politics.) And it was clear 8 months ago that Labour's only sensible electoral strategy was unequivocal support for Ref2. Not because they could implement Ref2 in this Parliamentary environment. But because it was the least bad electoral stance. But Labour has f**ked that up. They have zero credibility on the Ref 2 stance now because it is clear to everyone that the leader, controlled by his tiny group of ideological guardians, doesn't want that.


 You assume the people who have deserted Labour on a matter of profound principle will come flocking back, yet you yourself didn't vote Labour in 2010, thus facilitating this decade of Tory rule. Why were your principles so sacrosanct while everyone else's are malleable?

[albie]

BST,

Labour are not behind in the polls.....on average of recent polls they are in the lead, albeit on a 4 way split.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
Check the moving average.

Only YouGov polls for Murdoch, which have been the most inaccurate, show Labour lower than the others.

Whether the recent pattern persists is highly doubtful. The last 7 days before a vote is the crucial period for moving opinion.
Polling in this environment has a wide margin of error.

The Ref2 debate is a sideshow in terms of the run up to a GE.
Your inability to recognise that you have been chasing a rabbit down a hole is the most depressing episode in the discussion on here.
Any consideration of Ref2 only comes into play if Cummins chooses that in preference to a GE....which seems to me very unlikely.

The idea Labour should take "the least bad electoral stance" so far away from an election, and in opposition to policy agreed at conference, is plain silly.
The time to finesse an election strategy is through the manifesto, once a date is finalised.

A GE is unlikely in September IMO. Late October/November more likely I think.

You missed the key point that Cummins is now in charge....Borump is just the song and dance man for the media circus.

How I vote is none of your business, btw.
Please do not make claims about how others vote that you cannot possibly know.