Seeing a shrink

[Bentley Bullet]

BB
Our Govt has spent the past three years trying to implement that vote and running into precisely the practical difficulties that some of us were predicting 3 years ago.

The current Govt is now saying none of that ever happened and we're going to repeat the process at 78 rpm over the next ten weeks, in the expectation that something else will happen.

By October, we'll have spent 40 months trying to implement the Will of the People and after that, apparently, we're going to implement a policy that everyone on the Leave side in
2016 said was Project Fear, no-one seriously discussed then and no majority in the country, then or now, wants. And that decision has been made by a PM put into place by 66% of the votes of a group of people who comprise 0.35% of the electorate, advised by an unelected guru who is under criminal investigation for breaking electoral law.

And the possibility that, in light of this, it might make sense to ask the electorate if this is what they still want is, apparently, an outrageous betrayal.

Odd concept of democracy you have there.

BST. Any deal struck with the EU should have been done after we'd left and not as part of the deal to leave.

[Bentley Bullet]

The majority of the voters in the referendum believed that the UK is being deceived by the EU, who convinced us to hand over £9 Billion every year. They might feel that the EU is getting enriched by playing on Remainers beliefs.

They might have changed their minds though, I mean you did...

I'm thinking of changing my mind because I don't want to be on the same side as the Remoaners. They have conducted themselves disgracefully and I don't want to be associated with them.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Go on BB.

Which bits did they feel we were being deceived about?

[tommy toes]

BB

So we agree that relying on faith and hope and belief when there are factual analyses to be had is not a good policy.

Glad we've sorted that one out. It's another rabbit hole we won't have to wander down in future.

BST, when we agree that carrying out a democratic vote is good policy then we'll have gone a long way towards sorting our differences out.

The 2016 referendum was anything but a democratic vote.
The vast majority of those who voted had no idea about the machinations of leaving.
The main sticking point ie the NI Issue certainly wasn't something I was aware of, and I'll bet not many were.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB.

But things don't work like that do they? You don't jump off a cliff and then design a parachute.

And in any case, the scenario you are proposing (leave and THEN sort out a deal) is explicitly NOT what the Leave campaign told us would happen. So I assume you accept that your expectation is an outlier?

[Bentley Bullet]

But that comparison is only a good analogy in the minds of those who actually think we are jumping off a cliff before we've designed a parachute. Most people would think it's a ridiculous analogy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Right.

So this thing about the Govt planning for 20 mile queues on the M20, for us not having access to chemicals to clean water at treatment works, for the special fund set up to deal with the fall out of companies going bust, for the issues that will arise at the Irish border on the day we left with an arrangement? That's all business as usual then is it?

And if we left without arranging anything with the EU, then sorted it all out afterwards, what would happen to the importation of radioactive medical products? To the exportation of livestock? To the 5bn quids worth of research contracts paid by the EU that our universities and high tech companies are involved in? What about UK drivers who need to drive in Europe after we left - would their insurance and licences be valid?  Etc, etc, etc...

What WOULD your definition of jumping off a cliff be then?

[Bentley Bullet]

The problem is I only personally know two people who have changed their mind about Brexit and they would now vote to leave. I reckon fewer people take the scaremongering seriously since previous scaremongering proved to be just that, and because of the determination of Remoaners to stop Brexit, they deem democracy to be more serious a loss than leaving the EU.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So which bit of current scaremongering are you talking about?

[Bentley Bullet]

If any of them read this forum they'd probably say your latest bit of scaremongering in your last post!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Is it the National Farmers' Union who are trying to pull the wool over your eyes?
https://www.nfuonline.com/news/latest-news/why-a-no-deal-brexit-is-catastrophic-for-british-farming/

Or is it the BMA that are pissballing you?
https://www.bma.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/2018/august/no-deal-brexit-could-be-catastrophic-for-health

CBI?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49142762

TUC?
https://www.napo.org.uk/blogs/brexit-tuc-view

What about the Road Haulage industry? Are they in on the act of trying to scare you?
https://www.rha.uk.net/news/press-releases/2018-07-july/brexit-and-the-uk-haulage-industry-%E2%80%93-no-deal-no-jobs-no-food

Airlines? Are they in on it as well?
https://www.aerotime.aero/zivile.zalagenaite/23777-ryanair-to-fire-900-pilots-and-cabin-crew-blames-max-and-brexit
https://www.ft.com/content/4de95ff8-4419-11e9-a965-23d669740bfb

Or what about the Govt itself, pissing £2.5bn up the wall in preparation for No Deal...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49183324

...and setting up a fund to bail out the companies that will go bust after Brexit?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bailout-fund-to-prop-up-businesses-after-brexit-8w2883fz2

Wow! That's quite a bunch of people to be involved in a conspiracy to scare you.

Tell me. Who are the ones telling you it'll be just fine?

[Bentley Bullet]

Nobody's pissballing me owd lad, including you. Like I've said all along, it's not what I think that matters, it's what the majority of people think. And if the majority of people democratically vote for summat, it is the duty of the government to deliver it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Right.

So you accept that there are a lot of very responsible and serious organisations who are extremely concerned about the situation that we as a nation are tipping ourselves into, but you prefer to duck about talking about scaremongering.

And around the wheel we go again.

[Bentley Bullet]

No doubt there are responsible organisations that are serious about their concerns, but because of irresponsible scaremongerers who simply want Brexit to fail, it is not surprising that a lot of people refuse to take legitimate concerns seriously. 

[scawsby steve]

No snap on the shelves; no strikers for the Rovers.

We're all doomed, I tell ye, all doomed.

[SydneyRover]

''They did so because they felt we were being deceived - cheated, conned, fooled, ripped off by what we get out of the EU for the cost of being in it''

But now we know that this was totally incorrect and we in fact get a dividend by being part of the EU and that people's live are better because of the EU especially those less well off and have better employment and human rights protections you would think that at least the smart ones would change their minds and consider staying within the EU. And especially knowing that the racist cheat and liar that now occupies No 10 spread a lot of those lies himself and that some of his cohort are before the courts because of their deception.

And again absolutely zero answers, no information about what will be improved by leaving nor what outcomes you want, no answer about who was scaremongering about what or why, nada, but a vague naive statement that we should have negotiated a plan after having left????????

[Bentley Bullet]

What do you mean we know now that was totally incorrect? How do you arrive at that hypothesis?
Don't tell me, the Guardian said!

[SydneyRover]

What do you mean we know now that was totally incorrect? How do you arrive at that hypothesis?
Don't tell me, the Guardian said!

The only people doing the deceiving is the leave camp and you deceiving yourself

[Bentley Bullet]

Who told you that? The Guardian?

[SydneyRover]

Who told you that? The Guardian?

Is that all you have left bb?

[Bentley Bullet]

I have nothing left SR.

I'm more to the right.

[SydneyRover]

As BB and BJ move into final negotiations, ang on a minnit, they won't negotiate with the EU? oh that's probably because the EU have intimated after 3 years of faffing around BB and BJ are out of ideas and especially as the EU have said ''no more'' the doubtless dynamic duo move on to renegotiate the backstop despite being told on many occasions that unless you offer a viable alternative there is nothing to talk about and Ireland tell them point blank there are ''no negotiations'' undeturd the double entendre move on to discuss what they will say to the Mercans about a beautiful trade deal except that the USA has told them trade deals are no-go if you f#ck with the backstop, despite all the setbacks bb says to bj ''why don't we just leave no-deal now! show everyone our cards, paint ourselves into a corner, hang ourselves out to dry, shoot ourselves in the kneecaps and then demand the best deals from them all, high fives all around yeh, whoop, 

[Bentley Bullet]

.....That was a party political broadcast by the Britain Surrendering Together Party.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Followed by a lack of comment by the Britain Shrugging Its Shoulders Party.

[Bentley Bullet]

It's great when you've actually got shoulders to shrug.

[scawsby steve]

The greatest decade ever for working class people was the 60s. I know because I lived through it; and I'm not just talking about the Beatles, Muhammad Ali, and England winning the World Cup; I'm talking about zero unemployment, safe streets, and working class pleasures such as beer, fish and chips, and football being ridiculously cheap; and guess what? we weren't even in the f*cking EU, or Common Market, or whatever it called itself then.

So forgive me if I don't see this wonderful Utopia we're supposed to be living in now.

 

[tommy toes]

The greatest decade ever for working class people was the 60s. I know because I lived through it; and I'm not just talking about the Beatles, Muhammad Ali, and England winning the World Cup; I'm talking about zero unemployment, safe streets, and working class pleasures such as beer, fish and chips, and football being ridiculously cheap; and guess what? we weren't even in the f*cking EU, or Common Market, or whatever it called itself then.

So forgive me if I don't see this wonderful Utopia we're supposed to be living in now.

 

Aye them wot days. I were there n'all.


Thing is we did join the EU and for the last 40 years we've enmeshed ourselves in its laws, finances, customs and practices.
I'm not saying the EU is perfect but it's a hundred times better that what this government is planning.
The latest shrinkage in our economy is nothing compared to what we're in for further down the line.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS
You DO know why we were so desperate to join the EEC by 1970 don't you?

Because the EEC countries had been dramatically out-performing us economically for the past decade.

And you do know that we matched or out-performed them all from 1975 onwards?

I assume you do know that?

I assume you also know that Brexit isn't going to make you 20 again?

[Bentley Bullet]

Before we joined the EU in 1973 I had dark brown hair and was bloody gorgeous. Now, because of the strain of being in the EU, I'm a wrinkly, grey-haired, stressed out ugly looking bas**rd.

It simply wasn't worth it.

[scawsby steve]

Before we joined the EU in 1973 I had dark brown hair and was bloody gorgeous. Now, because of the strain of being in the EU, I'm a wrinkly, grey-haired, stressed out ugly looking bas**rd.

It simply wasn't worth it.

Exactly the same as my transformation from a Mungo Jerry lookalike to a f*cking gargoyle.