HS2 - Could be scraped

[drfchound]

And you're wrong again Hound.

Like I say. Engage with the arguments instead of (badly) trying to guess a hidden agenda.

We only have your word that I am wrong though.
You would say that anyway.
You are so in favour of HS2, more so than anyone else on here and jump on any posts that say otherwise.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Is this how you operate Hound? Assume that everyone is lying to you?

That's very telling.

[drfchound]

Is this how you operate Hound? Assume that everyone is lying to you?

That's very telling.

Not everyone.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just people who say things you disagree with then eh?

[RedJ]

Is this how you operate Hound? Assume that everyone is lying to you?

That's very telling.

In fairness 70% of the main forum appear to operate this way if you read their reaction to anything said by Martin or the club itself.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm just fascinated by Hound. He's an intelligent, rational person. I'm assuming he's got some reason for assuming I'm lying. Me, I assume people are liars if I see evidence of them lying. I wonder what Hound's reason is here.

[drfchound]

I'm just fascinated by Hound. He's an intelligent, rational person. I'm assuming he's got some reason for assuming I'm lying. Me, I assume people are liars if I see evidence of them lying. I wonder what Hound's reason is here.

BST, thanks for your kind words.
Lying is a strong and emotional word and I would prefer not to use it in the context of our conversation about what you do or do not do.
My thoughts on your occupation are brought about by the way in which you strongly reject any points of view that objectors to HS2 have.
Also in the way you write with considerable knowledge about Parliamentary procedure.
You told me that you are a member of the Labour Party but don’t agree with all of their policies.
In my working life, at the times when I wasn’t working for my own Company, I didn’t always agree with Company policy  (of the businesses that I was working for) but in the senior roles that I held I cracked on and did my job despite that.

It crossed my mind that you could actually be an MP or someone quite high up in the Labour Party but would not want to own up to that on this forum for many reasons.
On every thread on this forum which is connected to a political theme you are very prominent and have very strong, and anti government, views.

If you were and chose not to tell us then I would totally understand why you would do so.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.

I'm not an MP. I'm not high up or a five in the Labour party. I just pay my subs because, on balance, I prefer them to the others.

I'm very interested in politics and economics so I read voraciously on both topics, although my profession isn't connected with either.

I take back my comment about you accusing me of lying. It's just frustrating when honest discussion provokes that sort of response.

[Metalmicky]

HS2 railway to be delayed by up to five years...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49563549

[SydneyRover]

I like the option of HS2 but only if it could have a route that benefited the North and the route was not decided by politicians but by independent transport planners.

Public transport has to be the answer in an increasingly overcrowded world, but I don't comment too much about it as I'm not across any of the detail

[albie]

HS2 railway to be delayed by up to five years...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49563549

I expect the costs will continue to rise upwards, alongside the timeframe to delivery.
There needs to be a discussion on how a new government looks to assess the cost benefit analysis of major projects. The current rules tempt bidders to creative accounting in the manner of the HS2 project.

Perhaps Jonathan Pie got it right in his satirical take:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQUglnEmhOc

[drfchound]

Great news.
I find it hard to believe that the original plans did not account for building through densely populated areas.

[SydneyRover]

I like the option of HS2 but only if it could have a route that benefited the North and the route was not decided by politicians but by independent transport planners.

Public transport has to be the answer in an increasingly overcrowded world, but I don't comment too much about it as I'm not across any of the detail

Speaking of fast trains I'm on the SJ fast train from Copenhagen to Stockholm which is about 325 miles takes around 5hrs 15mins and is costing 56 Euro, fast trains have to be the answer.

[Bentley Bullet]

That's slower than Kings cross to Edinburgh!

[SydneyRover]

That's slower than Kings cross to Edinburgh!

And your point is?

[foxbat]

I've been on a train to  Stockholm :
it was fast , a good quality carriage ,plenty of room and relatively cheap
 - how it should be.
we need more capacity, HS2 and re-nationalisation

[SydneyRover]

I've been on a train to  Stockholm :
it was fast , a good quality carriage ,plenty of room and relatively cheap
 - how it should be.
we need more capacity, HS2 and re-nationalisation

I think there would be few that could disagree with you there fb, bad service and high prices despite public money still being put in. It's like get first get hold of a franchise and then get the lawyers and accountants in to work out a way to extract money from the public purse to give you a profit.

[Sprotyrover]

What I fail to comprehend is why whilst ripping up half of Mexborough they haven't considered building a station there, you wouldn't need the Sheffield loop either

[Axholme Lion]

The damage caused to the countryside is a price too high to pay for this project for me.
We have the lowest amount of trees in Europe and yet they want to destroy more ancient woodlands to facilitate this. What about the lost wildlife habitats? Surely there is more to life than business meetings and profits?

[drfchound]

Well apparently is it more important to get to London a few minutes quicker.

[bobjimwilly]

I'm all for railway modernisation and nationalisation, but HS2 should never had been a go for me, and the amount the budget was underestimated by, and is now currently predicted to be, is staggering 

[roversdude]

HS2 have assigned ecologists to the enabling works, not sure why as the established trees are being felled regardless, only thing that delays it is trying to rehome wildlife

[drfchound]

HS2 have assigned ecologists to the enabling works, not sure why as the established trees are being felled regardless, only thing that delays it is trying to rehome wildlife

Yeah, as if badgers, foxes and other animals will know that they are being rehomed.
They will more than likely continue to use the same routes that they have always done.

[Axholme Lion]

HS2 have assigned ecologists to the enabling works, not sure why as the established trees are being felled regardless, only thing that delays it is trying to rehome wildlife

Yeah, as if badgers, foxes and other animals will know that they are being rehomed.
They will more than likely continue to use the same routes that they have always done.

This kind of thing makes me so angry. Don't even get me started on fracking! Who needs earth tremors under their home?

[silent majority]

I'm currently on a Bullet train between Tokyo and Osaka. The infrastructure this country has is literally breathtaking, and it all works. We can only dream of having something similar as no government, or, it seems, people on this forum would want it.

If you were to experience it I'm sure you would all change your minds. The impact on quality of life would be immense.

[Pancho Regan]

I don't think it's necessarily a case of people not wanting it SM, it's a case of whether we can afford it given other spending needs.

Enjoy Japan by the way!

[drfchound]

I'm currently on a Bullet train between Tokyo and Osaka. The infrastructure this country has is literally breathtaking, and it all works. We can only dream of having something similar as no government, or, it seems, people on this forum would want it.

If you were to experience it I'm sure you would all change your minds. The impact on quality of life would be immense.

I’m sure that the people of the UK would object if they had to pay Healthcare Insurance like the working people of Japan do.
How many working UK residents have had to use or will make use of the NHS and it is free for them to do so.
Given the choice of having free use of the NHS or being able to get somewhere a few minutes quicker at the risk of not having free healthcare, which would people prefer.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Once again.

There is no link between the current budget and the capital investment budget. Not only CAN we pay for capital investment while still paying for current budget items like the NHS, we HAVE TO spend on capital investment if we're to be able to pay for current budget items in the future.

Here's the thing Hound.

You DON'T get "free healthcare". You get healthcare that is free at the point of use. But it still costs the country to provide it. And although you might not be here in 40 years, the country will still have to pay for it then. And if our productivity decline continues because of a massive failure to invest in capital projects, my kids and your grandkids will curse us when their generation can't find the services that ours can.

[drfchound]

BST, very obviously I know that the NHS costs country money to provide healthcare, you are using words to suit your argument when you pick out the fact that I said free healthcare.

As you will be aware, the money tree doesn’t exist and we don’t have a big pile of money sat doing nothing.

I am not against money being spent on capital investment but it has to be on things that are totally necessary.
HS2 isn’t totally necessary.

Our NHS is on its arse, every day we hear about cuts in funding and people not being able to access services and medication that would make their quality of life better.


I am sure that riding on a fast train isn’t any consolation to them at all.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well I'm glad we've established that you're not against capital investment, but you still refuse to acknowledge the fact that investing in capital projects does not in any way change our ability to pay for the NHS today.

You do the first by borrowing. At effectively zero interest rate today it is bone-headed stupidity not to do. It pays back immediately through the multiplier effect and long term through improvements in productivity and lower future capital costs. In the case of HS2, that would be through replacing thousands of flights and millions of car journeys over the next century by faster, better and far less environmentally damaging transport.

You pay for the NHS through tax income.

You've consistently supported a party that is wedded to reducing the tax take as a proportion of GDP, and has massively slashed capital spending this decade. Who do you think is responsible for the NHS being on its knees. And how do you propose we develop a more productive economy for our grandkids to inherit?