Brexit - Enough is enough !

[Herbert Anchovy]

BST,

Yes you’re right. However there’s a deeper issue at play here. The centre ground of UK politics really needs to take a long hard look at itself and question just why people are moving to the more ‘extreme’ left & right. I read a book about Harold Wilson and he had a view that centrist politics is always in danger of leaving sections of society behind and it should always be looking over its shoulder to ensure the populace is on the same journey. This is where Labour went wrong, so many people felt disenfranchised by it. Similarly with the Cameron Government.

[BillyStubbsTears]

HA.

I'm not sure that "people" are moving to the extremes. "Parties" are, but that's a very different thing.

[IDM]

Too many people it seems to me, follow “headlines” when deciding political views.. short term reactionism to sensationalist reporting.

I am sure that for Brexit, many thousands of folks will have voted to leave simply - and understandably - with the belief that the UK would be better off alone, irrespective of any knowledge of the detail of what Brexit would actually mean..

That’s not unusual as I wouldn’t expect the vast majority of the populace to understand the details of political issues - I certainly don’t..

But the reactionism seems to be worse in the current age of social media influence and the I want it now generation..

[idler]

How many leave voters wanted or expected no deal.??

I did.

I didn't and neither did the wife.

[Herbert Anchovy]

HA.

I'm not sure that "people" are moving to the extremes. "Parties" are, but that's a very different thing.

BST,

I’d disagree. I’m seeing many people shift their political persuasion to a more extreme perspective. Brexit is responsible for polarising these views to a large degree

[i_ateallthepies]

You are right ldr.
I've been a Corbyn supporter but he is unelectable.
He's given the Right and Tory press too much ammunition and now the man in the street thinks he's a dangerous Marxist anti Semite terrorist supporting nutcase.
Most of which is b*llocks of course but hey the power of social media.
So he has to go, but he won't and that is s tragedy for the Country as well as the Labour party, as things stand they won't get elected in the forthcoming election.

I'd agree with that sentiment tommy toes but I don't do social media and I haven't bought a newspaper of any kind for 30 years but I certainly view Corbyn pretty much in the way you describe.  I have been centre-left in my views all my life, never voted Conservative in my life and never will but I couldn't vote for labour if it meant there was the slightest chance it could bring Corbyn to power.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Pies. I understand exactly what you are saying. But I'd suggest you need to consider that there is near zero chance of Labour winning a majority in any election soon. Whereas there's a big chance of the Tories winning a majority.

So the question is very simple.

Do you want Johnson off the leash, leading a majority Tory Govt, or Corbyn, constrained, leading a Lab/LD/SNP coalition?

[i_ateallthepies]

I understand perfectly what you're saying BST but living in such a staunch labour constituency I could vote LD in the full knowledge that it didn't change the outcome but I hadn't voted for Corbyn or the Tories.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Understood.

But think hard about it if the Brexit party make a stand. I don't know where you live, but I'm expecting a pact between Farage and Johnson that the former will target Northern post-industrial seats and the latter will pull no-hope candidates there.

[bobjimwilly]

Corbyn aside, which labour party manifesto policies are people against?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I have very few gripes with Labour's policies. Their economic policy in particular is precisely what is needed.

My concern with Corbyn, always, has been his approach to foreign affairs. It is childishly simplistic in the extreme. He published an essay in the Morning Star not long before he became leader, about NATO and the Soviet Union. It was embarrassing to read. The sort of cliche-ridden, half-baked claptrap a middling Year 10 student would come up with. Fascinatingly,it's no longer up on the Morning Star website.

The fact that he and his inner circle bend over backwards to avoid ever criticising Putin is, frankly, frightening and I do worry about him being in power if a major incident developed in Eastern Europe.

Not as much as I worry about a Boris Johnson premiership though.

But that's politics. You make choices from imperfect alternatives. I passionately wish Corbyn wasn't Labour leader (McDonnell is both far more intelligent and far more hard headed) but faced with the choice between him and Johnson, it's a no brained.

Just like it was a no brained to vote for Blair against Major, Hague and Howard, and to vote for Brown against Cameron. If a few more people on the Left had done the latter, instead of indulging their precious consciences, we'd be in a very different world now.

[bobjimwilly]

I like McDonnell but I quite like Keir Starmer too; would prefer either to Corbyn

[BillyStubbsTears]

As I was saying.

Clear evidence of a war crime committed by Russia in Syria.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-49528495/idlib-double-tap-air-strike-russia-says-never-was

Utter silence from Corbyn.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Quite astonishing that neither Labour nor the Govt have said a word about this apparent war crime by the Russians in Syria. That seems to be the world we're in at the moment.

Labour won't criticise Russia because that goes against the 4Ms' principles

Tories won't criticise Russia unless they absolutely have to, because Russian oligarchs are bankrolling them.

So Russian jets are free to drop a couple of bombs in a marketplace, wait for civilians to come out to attend to the wounded, then return and massacre the lot of them.

And no f**ker cares.

[foxbat]

another example

Michael Lambert‏ @MichaelLamberta · 17h17 hours ago 

My small business has been selling to hundreds of customers in Europe since 1997
On 31st October it will close because none of my customers are prepared to register as importers and complete import paperwork for every little invoice
THE END OF MY BUSINESS

[Donnywolf]

Quite astonishing that neither Labour nor the Govt have said a word about this apparent war crime by the Russians in Syria. That seems to be the world we're in at the moment.

Labour won't criticise Russia because that goes against the 4Ms' principles

Tories won't criticise Russia unless they absolutely have to, because Russian oligarchs are bankrolling them.

So Russian jets are free to drop a couple of bombs in a marketplace, wait for civilians to come out to attend to the wounded, then return and massacre the lot of them.

And no f**ker cares.

It IS quite extraordinary. I have never known a time when our Parliament was so vexed and transfixed by the one central overarching issue and ignore or look the other way on international crises and / or domestic issues

Unprecedented.

HS2 should be debated endlessly - to cost 20 Billion pounds more than originally estimated and likely to be 7 years late ? 20 BILLION - because they had underestimated how much it would cost to put the line through built up areas ? I cant get my head round that BUT the HOC should be doing

BUT they are not - too busy chasing / trying to defeat b****t

[foxbat]

just in from Sweden :

Henrietta W M  🎪 🇪🇺 🇸🇪 🇬🇧 #RevokeA50‏ @henrietta_22 · 2h2 hours ago 


What the bloody hell is wrong with some of you Brits. Do you honestly think the likes of de Pfiffelt**t and the Victorian toff have your best interest at heart? You might not like the idea of EU or even understand it but honestly the alternative looks pretty damn grim.

[SydneyRover]

Another from Henrietta:

''I know, it should be fairly obvious to anyone with a brain. The Empire is long gone. Europe is stronger together not divided. I feel like banging my head against a wall sometimes''

[Axholme Lion]

Quite astonishing that neither Labour nor the Govt have said a word about this apparent war crime by the Russians in Syria. That seems to be the world we're in at the moment.

Labour won't criticise Russia because that goes against the 4Ms' principles

Tories won't criticise Russia unless they absolutely have to, because Russian oligarchs are bankrolling them.

So Russian jets are free to drop a couple of bombs in a marketplace, wait for civilians to come out to attend to the wounded, then return and massacre the lot of them.

And no f**ker cares.

Why do you hate the Russians for defending us?