Parliament to be prorogued

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BFYP.

Read that tweet form Robert Peston. A Senior No10 adviser (read: Cummings) has said that if Johnson loses a VONC, they will just refuse to leave Downing Street or recommend an alternative PM to the Queen. Just count down the clock for a fortnight then call an Election. So Parliament wouldn't have to chance to stop No Deal.

Quite unbelievable that we're even discussing this, but that's the sort of rules that Cummings plays by. It would be a coup. Nothing less.

I get that, I totally do, but that's a very toxic option that will harm Johnson massively.  He isn't playing this game to harm himself, if there's one thing we know of him is that will not be his strategy, he will not ever harm himself intentionally.  Equally much of the bluster is about maximising the opposite strategy to make him look pretty bad.

[BillyStubbsTears]

But it won't harm him will it? Because there's 30-35% of the population that are signed up to the No Deal death cult, and will support him doing this. They don't CARE that he's lied to the country. They don't CARE about this affront to the entire concept of our democracy. They are just slavering to stick it to the EU and the Remainers, and if that means ignoring Parliament, that's fine.

Look at some of the comments in here.

And 30-35% in the GE in November will give him a landslide.

[DonnyOsmond]

Well done Boris, doing what the majority of the people voted for, getting this country out of The EU

Well said

Why are certain people so keen on ruining the economy of the country? When we end up in a recession and end up with food being stockpiled it'll be all your f*cking faults.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Depends who you mean DO.

Johnson is just in it for Johnson. He just wants to be the Head Boy, even if the school is on fire.

Cummings is the really scary one. He's decided that we need a total restructuring of the way we govern ourselves. That can only come about  through a major crisis. Like...err..No Deal Brexit. And because he just KNOWS that he is the most intelligent and far-sighted person in the country, he won't listen to anyone who says that is the most dangerous thing you could do, and real people will get really hurt.

By the way, if you think I'm exaggerating about Cummings being a batshit megalomaniac, you ain't heard the half of it. Go read his blog or even better, his aborted PhD thesis that used to be on line. It's a terrifying insight into a hyoer-intelligent, deranged mind. And he's now inside No10 making policy for Johnson to sell to the gullible.

[BillyStubbsTears]

For what it's worth.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/269157

Not that this f**ker would listen...

[DonnyOsmond]

Depends who you mean DO.

Johnson is just in it for Johnson. He just wants to be the Head Boy, even if the school is on fire.

Cummings is the really scary one. He's decided that we need a total restructuring of the way we govern ourselves. That can only come about  through a major crisis. Like...err..No Deal Brexit. And because he just KNOWS that he is the most intelligent and far-sighted person in the country, he won't listen to anyone who says that is the most dangerous thing you could do, and real people will get really hurt.

By the way, if you think I'm exaggerating about Cummings being a batshit megalomaniac, you ain't heard the half of it. Go read his blog or even better, his aborted PhD thesis that used to be on line. It's a terrifying insight into a hyoer-intelligent, deranged mind. And he's now inside No10 making policy for Johnson to sell to the gullible.

I mean the public, people on here. Surely it's career suicide for Johnson? He'll kill off the Brexit party and UKIP but he'll have part of his own party against him more than ever. The public seem to just be putting fingers in their ears saying it'll be fine because Farage said so but let's ignore the experts. It's like if your car is broke you don't listen to Dave the guy who works in Aldi stacking shelf's who says it's the clutch without looking, you listen to the professional mechanic of 30 years who says it's the brake pads, who has looked at the car.

[TommyC]

Serious question without angle or agenda.

Does anyone think there is any possibility whatsoever that given the scenario of a no-deal Brexit appears to be looming ever closer, that the EU may offer some last minute concessions? Is that a totally unrealistic prospect?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tommy.

What concessions could they give?

Tear up the backstop? That would mean hanging an EU member out to dry to satisfy the swivel-eyed nutters on the Right of the UK.

There is a zero chance of them doing that.

[GazLaz]

Serious question without angle or agenda.

Does anyone think there is any possibility whatsoever that given the scenario of a no-deal Brexit appears to be looming ever closer, that the EU may offer some last minute concessions? Is that a totally unrealistic prospect?

Could they be trying to make the EU blink first knowing the original deal will always be on the table?

[DonnyOsmond]

Return of the IRA and riots coming?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Blink about what?

[TommyC]

Well obviously the issue is the backstop and has been all along. And by concessions, something to do with the backstop is obviously what I am referring to.  I get your point that it is highly unlikely that anyone's position will change on that but the EU do have history for making the very latest of late concessions don't they. I have no idea what such a concession might look like and clearly neither do the Government (still no evidence of these technological solutions etc) but would it take very much by way of a "concession" for this Government to snap it up as an 11th hour victory, get it through Parliament (when it next sits), leave the EU and then go win an election by a landslide? Or do you genuinely believe that BJ actually wants no-deal for the reasons you have already put forward rather than a compromise?

[DonnyOsmond]

Well obviously the issue is the backstop and has been all along. And by concessions, something to do with the backstop is obviously what I am referring to.  I get your point that it is highly unlikely that anyone's position will change on that but the EU do have history for making the very latest of late concessions don't they. I have no idea what such a concession might look like and clearly neither do the Government (still no evidence of these technological solutions etc) but would it take very much by way of a "concession" for this Government to snap it up as an 11th hour victory, get it through Parliament (when it next sits), leave the EU and then go win an election by a landslide? Or do you genuinely believe that BJ actually wants no-deal for the reasons you have already put forward rather than a compromise?

Wouldn't taking out the backstop tear up the Good Friday Agreement?

[wing commander]

  it's a strange feeling for me..Even as a Tory I don't believe what has happened today and for once I am in total agreement with you all that this is very wrong...The only plus side for me  personally is that I've had a short open on the pound since last week and a long open on Gold bullion at the same time..Of course that was based on the technical charts rather than being tipped off by Boris...

Still a sad day for democracy...

[Glyn_Wigley]

BFYP.

Read that tweet form Robert Peston. A Senior No10 adviser (read: Cummings) has said that if Johnson loses a VONC, they will just refuse to leave Downing Street or recommend an alternative PM to the Queen. Just count down the clock for a fortnight then call an Election. So Parliament wouldn't have to chance to stop No Deal.

Quite unbelievable that we're even discussing this, but that's the sort of rules that Cummings plays by. It would be a coup. Nothing less.

If it can be shown to the Queen that someone else can command a majority in the Commons - and that therefore Boris can't - what's to stop her inviting that someone else to form a government, and also if Parliament show that there's a majority for reversing the prorogation, can she possibly ignore that?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tommy

Agreed with most of your post.

Personally, I've said all along that this was never about us leaving the EU. It was always and totally about Johnson's career.

He KNOWS that the EU won't flip on the backstop. Because, however much a No Deal might hurt them, backing down on this would do FAR more damage to the EU's credibility and long term cohesion.

Johnson knows all that. He knows there's zero chance of negotiating a deal when he's set such a high bar.

But this isn't about a deal. It's about throwing red meat to the 30-35% of the electorate that he needs to win the election in the Autumn.

So he's setting himself up as the Champion of The Will of The People against these evil bas**rds in Parliament and the EU.

That's my take anyway. I can't see any other take that makes sense. Certainly, if you start from the position that Johnson is acting in good faith, you'll never make any sense out of it. He's never acted in good faith in his life.

[albie]

FYI.

What happens next:
http://www.democraticaudit.com/2019/08/28/threat-of-prorogation-what-can-the-commons-do/

[BillyStubbsTears]

Glyn.

How do you show it to the Queen. Traditionally, she takes advice from the PM who is assumed to be representing the will of Parliament.

What do you do when the PM flatly refused to represent the will of Parliament?

[wing commander]

The thing is Glyn..Just who could command a majority in the house??? I'm not sure anybody could...

[Glyn_Wigley]

Well obviously the issue is the backstop and has been all along. And by concessions, something to do with the backstop is obviously what I am referring to.  I get your point that it is highly unlikely that anyone's position will change on that but the EU do have history for making the very latest of late concessions don't they. I have no idea what such a concession might look like and clearly neither do the Government (still no evidence of these technological solutions etc) but would it take very much by way of a "concession" for this Government to snap it up as an 11th hour victory, get it through Parliament (when it next sits), leave the EU and then go win an election by a landslide? Or do you genuinely believe that BJ actually wants no-deal for the reasons you have already put forward rather than a compromise?

Boris doesn't care whether it's a Deal or a No Deal, he just wants any Brexit he can so he can emasculate the Brexit Party before a General Election. And if the country has to crash and burn to get that for him, tough.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Interesting stuff Albie. There's some explosive possibilities there. Like Parliament passing a law to make it illegal for Johnson to act as PM.

What depressed and worries me is that every step of this situation further divided and enrages and alienates people. It's going to take decades to heal the wounds in society that this f**ker has opened up.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The thing is Glyn..Just who could command a majority in the house??? I'm not sure anybody could...

The best chance is a short-term candidate who has the respect of the House and no ambition past the current crisis, such as Ken Clarke who has been mooted. No chance of it happening under Corbyn - you will probably get enough rebel Tories to vote AGAINST Boris to stop No Deal via a VONC but they won't then vote FOR Corbyn to make him PM.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Glyn.

How do you show it to the Queen. Traditionally, she takes advice from the PM who is assumed to be representing the will of Parliament.

What do you do when the PM flatly refused to represent the will of Parliament?

The Speaker is the official representative of the House of Commons to the Monarch, not the PM. He can do it. The PM only represents the Government, not Parliament, and only then when he can command a majority in the Commons.

[albie]

"Humble address" anyone?

See the link to Democratic Audit.

High risk strategy from Cummings and his yapdog.
No Tory who supports the democratic values of the HoC can support this, and now need to act in the national interest.

Interesting quote from Craig Murray;

"Johnson has been able to take over without facing the electorate because of the polite constitutional fiction that it is the same Conservative government continuing and nothing has changed. Yet he justifies the prorogation of parliament by the argument that it is a new government and a new Queen’s Speech is thus needed."

Quite so!

[Glyn_Wigley]

Tommy

Agreed with most of your post.

Personally, I've said all along that this was never about us leaving the EU. It was always and totally about Johnson's career.

He KNOWS that the EU won't flip on the backstop. Because, however much a No Deal might hurt them, backing down on this would do FAR more damage to the EU's credibility and long term cohesion.

Johnson knows all that. He knows there's zero chance of negotiating a deal when he's set such a high bar.

But this isn't about a deal. It's about throwing red meat to the 30-35% of the electorate that he needs to win the election in the Autumn.

So he's setting himself up as the Champion of The Will of The People against these evil bas**rds in Parliament and the EU.

That's my take anyway. I can't see any other take that makes sense. Certainly, if you start from the position that Johnson is acting in good faith, you'll never make any sense out of it. He's never acted in good faith in his life.

Funnily enough, he needs those evil bas**rds in Parliament to enable him to call a General Election. If he manages to force through Brexit through all this chicanery, I'd love to see all the opposition parties abstain every time he tries to win enough votes to be able to call an election, just for long enough that all the shit from the Brexit fallout sticks to Boris and his bunch of incompetents and no-one else and then hold an election.

[wilts rover]

I thought Johnson was supposed to be a student of history? Because if he knows enough about British history he will know that when leaders attempt to avoid the scrutiny of those they are governing it rarely ends well.

[scawsby steve]

I thought Johnson was supposed to be a student of history? Because if he knows enough about British history he will know that when leaders attempt to avoid the scrutiny of those they are governing it rarely ends well.

In that case Wilts, as I've said in another thread, Labour should p*ss the forthcoming election.

Are you confident of that?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've dug out Cummings' aborted PhD.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=19&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiqnczp96XkAhVTi1wKHeh6C704ChAWMAh6BAgJEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdominiccummings.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F11%2F20130825-some-thoughts-on-education-and-political-priorities-version-2-final.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0UJI34olkrZiiYYruT5xuI

f**king terrifying that he is now effectively running the country. That is a random word salad of "things that have impressed me in science and HEY! wouldn't it be great if we could destroy society and re-build it better with those principles" nonsense.

He has the sort of brain that should be locked up in academia. He might come up with a world changing idea. He might turn out to be just mentally unstable and full of himself. But either way, he couldn't affect the real world without layers and layers of other people and systems in between to rein him in.

Instead, he's worked himself into a position where he has almost untrammeled power to force his maniacal babblings into policy.

[selby]

WOW, Boris has really got you going now lads.

[selby]

It's a right comedy play, off they go on their summer jollies, then when they come back all the chuckle brothers and sisters get together and have a day thinking how clever they are banding together against the bogie man Boris, now they think they have him on the run and all the world is Rosie.
  The next day Boris comes up with a plan that causes mayhem, even the no mark Saubry even had a couple of minutes of fame as leader of her ( are there enough members to call it a party?).
 Well on it goes, everyone getting upset, and the real king maker Farage dipping in and out just waiting for a general election, when he can get centre stage, and bury all the minnows on prime time TV when it suits him.
   Most of this lot are digging their own graves, and the funny thing is I don't think they realise it.