Parliament to be prorogued

[SydneyRover]

Will you be so enthusiastic to support this rabble when the economy dives further and those that support us are forced to turn the taps off?

[Herbert Anchovy]

Whether anyone likes it or not, Johnson is playing a blinder here.

He knows that those MP’s who wish to stop a No Deal have their price. There aren’t enough Tory MP’s who will support a vote of no confidence, there remains a minority of Labour MPs who are very uncomfortable with doing anything to help Corbyn become PM and for the Liberals and Independents, Corbyn in Number 10 is a step too far. Those politicians who claim that they’ll do anything to prevent a no deal are struggling to walk the walk. Johnson knows this.

 Right through the Brexit debacle the ‘Remain’ members of the house have been unable to create a united front and to put party politics to one side and Johnson is doing what he can to use this to his advantage.

[Donnywolf]

This will seriously damaged Johnson and if he fails it will be the end of his public pubic life, if he succeeds then I think his party will use him and then turf him out hoping that it removes the stain as he goes.

He has been called the most proficient, proven liar ever to become PM and even today the wry smile(s) when saying this has nothing to do with blocking the opportunities to stop No Deal - moreso its about the NHS / Crime and punishment etc etc said it all

So even if disgraced over this he will reinvent himself. After all he only jumped on the Leave campaign at the very last minute having written speeches in favour of remain

He is a t**t of the highest order 

[SydneyRover]

Whether anyone likes it or not, Johnson is playing a blinder here.

He knows that those MP’s who wish to stop a No Deal have their price. There aren’t enough Tory MP’s who will support a vote of no confidence, there remains a minority of Labour MPs who are very uncomfortable with doing anything to help Corbyn become PM and for the Liberals and Independents, Corbyn in Number 10 is a step too far. Those politicians who claim that they’ll do anything to prevent a no deal are struggling to walk the walk. Johnson knows this.

 Right through the Brexit debacle the ‘Remain’ members of the house have been unable to create a united front and to put party politics to one side and Johnson is doing what he can to use this to his advantage.

This is Cummings and Crosby, boris has the concentration of a small rodent and would struggle to put a lunch order together.

[DonnyOsmond]

How is the EU worse than this Government?!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well, here's three Cabinet Ministers who, one assumes, will be resigning.

(From the BBC website)

At his own leadership campaign launch on 10 June, Matt Hancock, who has stayed on in Mr Johnson's cabinet as health secretary, said the idea (proroguing Parliament) "goes against everything that those men who waded onto those beaches [on D-Day] fought and died for - and I will not have it.”

Work and Pensions Secretary Amber Rudd told BBC News that it was "outrageous to consider proroguing Parliament".

While Culture Secretary Nicky Morgan said "it would lead to a constitutional crisis."

[RedJ]

I love how to Selby this is hilarious cos he's "lib baiting". Yep, top banter, totally ignoring the country's legislative body and making yourself a de facto dictator.

[Colemans Left Hook]

It'd be fascinating to know how many of Johnson's spiv mates were shorting the Pound before this morning's announcement.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cx250jmk4e7t/pound-sterling-gbp

more profits in the bible than shorting today sorry mate

[DonnyOsmond]

Hancock only cares about his own career.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Well, here's three Cabinet Ministers who, one assumes, will be resigning.

(From the BBC website)

At his own leadership campaign launch on 10 June, Matt Hancock, who has stayed on in Mr Johnson's cabinet as health secretary, said the idea (proroguing Parliament) "goes against everything that those men who waded onto those beaches [on D-Day] fought and died for - and I will not have it.”

Work and Pensions Secretary Amber Rudd told BBC News that it was "outrageous to consider proroguing Parliament".

While Culture Secretary Nicky Morgan said "it would lead to a constitutional crisis."

I doubt it. As we’re seeing right now, all politicians have their price.

[wilts rover]

I thought Johnson was supposed to be a student of history? Because if he knows enough about British history he will know that when leaders attempt to avoid the scrutiny of those they are governing it rarely ends well.

In that case Wilts, as I've said in another thread, Labour should p*ss the forthcoming election.

Are you confident of that?

Well Steve he appears to be on around 30-35% support at most. I think this move today has increased the possibility of the opposition parties getting together in a formal (or most likely informal) 'Stop Boris' alliance - whenever the next election is.

What I am confident of is that the Tories will loose most of their 12 seats in Scotland and around 20-30 to the Lib Dems in the south west - Welsh borders. So they will need to take at least 30 from Labour to be back whee they are now.

I wonder how confident Johnson is of being PM after the election? He has a small majority in a remain seat where he let the electorate down by lying about his opposition to the Heathrow extension that will blight their lives...

[wilts rover]

Snap poll. People disagree with proroguing parliament by 47% to 27%.

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1166717448118296576

[scawsby steve]

If all this is unconstitutional and outrageous, then why has the Queen signed it?

[BillyStubbsTears]

If all this is unconstitutional and outrageous, then why has the Queen signed it?

You have to know how our constitution works.

Most of it is not written down explicitly. It's based on precedent. It's based on what has been generally agreed to be reasonable in past times.

And, crucially, it's based on the concept that the Monarch doesn't make political decisions about right or wrong.

So. If the PM advises the Monarch to take a course of action, the Monarch will ALWAYS take that action. Because the Monarch assumes that the PM is acting with the agreement of Parliament, which itself is answerable directly to the electorate in any election.

THAT's how the system works.

What has happened today is that Johnson and Cummings have ridden a coach and horses through it. They have advised the Queen to suspend Parliament precisely because Parliament DOES NOT agree with their plan of action over Brexit. Johnson has destroyed the concept that the PM will advise the Queen in good faith, with the backing of Parliament.[1]

But the Queen CANNOT get involved in questioning the good faith of the PM, because to do so, she would be actively engaging in making a political judgement.

So, she has signed the document. There was zero chance of her doing otherwise.

[1] Just read that sentence again and stop and think. What the reaction of the Establishment would be if Corbyn was PM and was trying to force through the most controversial legislation in 350 years. And to do so, he basically tore up the concept of how our constitution works. What you have just witnessed today is the single most revolutionary act by the leader of the country against Parliament since the time of the Civil War. I'm not exaggerating. It is THAT big a deal. And they day Corbyn is a danger to the country...

[scawsby steve]

In that case Billy, as I've said in other threads, Labour should p*ss the forthcoming election; but they won't, will they?

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS

No. Because a frighteningly large proportion of our population seem to think that lib-baiting is great and it doesn't matter if you f**k all over democracy.

[scawsby steve]

We didn't start it.

[Filo]

The Privy council decide on behalf of the Queen, there are over 400 privy council members, it only needs 3 to make a quora, todys privy council meeting was attended by three people, one of those was Jacob Rees-Mogg, that tells you everything you need to know

[albie]

Gina unleashes the lawyers;
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-miller/legal-campaigner-miller-asks-courts-to-block-uk-parliament-suspension-idUKKCN1VI2EY?rpc=401&

This is as well as the challenge brought in the Scottish courts.
Straining the chain like scrapyard dogs!

[BillyStubbsTears]

These are the mendacious bas**rds who are in the Cabinet now
https://mobile.twitter.com/annaturley/status/1166976091602464774

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well this could be a game changer.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49509275

Davison was instrumental in de-toxifying the Tories in Scotland. Without the 12 seats they won there in 2017, the Tories would have been hoyed out of office. This changes the arithmetic for an Autumn election.

I wonder if Cummings has programmed THAT f**ker into his algorithm?

[Ldr]

Playing devils advocate here. Would we have got to this stage if parliament had respected the result and worked to get the country the best deal possible and then voted it through rather than what has transpired?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

We'll never know.

Parliament never had a chance to do that.

May decided in Jan 2017 that the narrow result in 2016 was a mandate for a very hard Brexit that meant us leaving the SM and CU.

She did that to pander to the slavering Europhobic wing of her party that never represented more than a small fraction of the nation. She did that because she was scared that they would turf her out otherwise.

From that moment on, it was impossible to expect Labour, the SNP or LDs to support May's deal. They had been frozen out of any discussion on what Brexit meant, and their interpretation of Brexit was always softer, involving at the very least us staying in the SM and very close to the CU.

So, from Jan 2017, at May's own choice, she could only get a deal through Parliament by satisfying the rabid Right of the Tory party. And she forgot the oldest truism. If you feed the tiger, it will eat that then come for you afterwards.

That is EXACTLY what has happened. The Tory Right rejected her deal, ate her up, spat her out, and took over the party. And it's now effectively ruled out ANY sort of deal.

Disastrous decisions every single step of the way from May. A weak, weak PM pretending to be a strong one, and in doing so, destroying herself and horribly harming the country.

It didn't have to be like that. But that's her legacy.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Playing devils advocate here. Would we have got to this stage if parliament had respected the result and worked to get the country the best deal possible and then voted it through rather than what has transpired?

Parliament could only do what May allowed it to do. Which was vote on the shit she put in front of it. What else do you think Parliament could have done to work on a deal that they could agree on in those circumstances?

[BillyStubbsTears]

The fatal mistake that May made was in failing to understand what Brexit was about for the Tory right.

It was never about what kind of Brexit we got. That line has changed on a daily basis.

It was ALWAYS about them using the issue to take over the party.


If May had realised this 3 years ago (and it wasn't f**king rocket science - I was saying it then) she could have realised that she could never defeat the Tory right on their ground.

She could have been the nationally unifying PM who found a deal that would have been grudgingly accepted by a majority.

She failed spectacularly on that decision. And that's why we are in this shite heap, and why she will be remembered as THE worst PM in history.

[Ldr]

Glyn, re read the question, its theoretical

[BillyStubbsTears]

The point is though, Ldr, that only the Govt could shape the form of Brexit.

May COULD have reached out across party lines to find an acceptable compromise Brexit. I suspect that would have worked, in that Labour under Corbyn was itching to put Brexit to bed.

My gut feeling is that a Norway type deal would have got through Parliament with support from 2/3rds of Labour and 2/3rds of the Tories. But it would have left the Right of the Tory party spitting venom. So it would have taken a very strong and strategic PM to do it.

[Ldr]

I get that BST, my question though was the hypothetical what if scenario, not the clusterf**k actual happening

[BillyStubbsTears]

Then I've said. I think a Norway-type soft Brexit deal would have got through.

[Axholme Lion]

Is everybody happy today?