Parliament to be prorogued

[DonnyOsmond]

Fascinating insight into Cummings today.

Apparently, as a bunch of Tory rebels were waiting in a corridor to see Johnson, Cummings turned up and screamed at  them for an extended period, finishing off buly saying "Who ARE you anyway. I don't recognise any of you."

Dominic old lad, if you're reading this, they are MPs. Elected by the public. Question is, who the flying f**k are YOU?

He can't know much on politics if he doesn't know who Hammond is.

[SydneyRover]

it's all going tits up for boris at the moment his 'man' management skills appear to be lacking as foxbat has pointed out

[Bentley Bullet]

Elected by the public? Does that matter any more?

[SydneyRover]

if you have to ask ...................

[SydneyRover]

Turns out Johnson is a bullshitter and a coward as well as a liar.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MaryCreaghMP/status/1168944830048874507

Who'd have thought it?

yeh well even boris isn't that stupid, is he?

[DonnyOsmond]

I quite like how they're being referred to as the Rebel Alliance, as that would make the Government the Empire.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Turns out Johnson is a bullshitter and a coward as well as a liar.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MaryCreaghMP/status/1168944830048874507

Who'd have thought it?

yeh well even boris isn't that stupid, is he?

Scrap that. I misunderstood that tweet. I thought it was staying that Johnson had said he wouldn't kick the rebels out.

I'll save calling him a coward and a bullshitter till tomorrow, when he doesn't kick them out.

[DonnyOsmond]

Boris has lost tonight. Good stuff.

[bpoolrover]

To be fair personally I would rather no brexit and another term with tories in power this way I think this will be the result that we get

[DonnyOsmond]

To be fair personally I would rather no brexit and another term with tories in power this way I think this will be the result that we get

But why?

They're the reason we're in this mess. They called the ref to kill off UKIP and appease the ERG. They wrote lies on the side of a bus which appealed to people because of austerity which was their idea. They called an GE in 2017 to get a majority and failed. They just shot themselves in the leg last night by losing 21+1 MPs.

It's clearly time for a different strategy.

[Donnywolf]

Fascinating insight into Cummings today.

Apparently, as a bunch of Tory rebels were waiting in a corridor to see Johnson, Cummings turned up and screamed at  them for an extended period, finishing off buly saying "Who ARE you anyway. I don't recognise any of you."

Dominic old lad, if you're reading this, they are MPs. Elected by the public. Question is, who the flying f**k are YOU?

He can't know much on politics if he doesn't know who Hammond is.

Maybe he was saying "I dont recognise you" meaning you have no standing within the Party and certainly no influence in the future

However they are duly elected MPs where he is (or appears to be) a jumped up unelected bully boy

[SydneyRover]

After last nights debacle it looks like Johnson needs a new SPAD ................ so he can keep digging

[DonnyOsmond]

To be fair personally I would rather no brexit and another term with tories in power this way I think this will be the result that we get

But why?

They're the reason we're in this mess. They called the ref to kill off UKIP and appease the ERG. They wrote lies on the side of a bus which appealed to people because of austerity which was their idea. They called an GE in 2017 to get a majority and failed. They just shot themselves in the leg last night by losing 21+1 MPs.

It's clearly time for a different strategy.

Replying to myself but imagine if we went for Chaos with Ed Milliband.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

To be fair personally I would rather no brexit and another term with tories in power this way I think this will be the result that we get

But why?

They're the reason we're in this mess. They called the ref to kill off UKIP and appease the ERG. They wrote lies on the side of a bus which appealed to people because of austerity which was their idea. They called an GE in 2017 to get a majority and failed. They just shot themselves in the leg last night by losing 21+1 MPs.

It's clearly time for a different strategy.

Replying to myself but imagine if we went for Chaos with Ed Milliband.

Or May's deal, or Cameron had stuck around etc.  Hindsight eh!

Utterly stunned with the amount of support for Boris Johnson on the radio from the public this morning.  It amazes how a confident outward persona makes a huge difference.

I have no idea where it will go next, but it does surprise me to some extent how much another extension appears to be unfavourable to the general public in some ways, brexit fatigue?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fascinating times.

Jacob Rees-Mogg has voted against his own Govt 100 times. Including twice on May's Brexit deal.

He's on the front bench.

Last night, several Tory MPs voted against the Govt for the first time and were booted out.

The Tory party is now a hard-line, uninclusive, far-right, nationalistic cabal. It's not remotely close to the party that it was even under Thatcher.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP.

And there's the problem with democracy.

There are millions of people who want a flash-bang showman, because the day to day drudge of politics (which is the important but) bores them shitless.

Decision time for the country coming up. Do we really want a showman.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BFYP.

And there's the problem with democracy.

There are millions of people who want a flash-bang showman, because the day to day drudge of politics (which is the important but) bores them shitless.

Decision time for the country coming up. Do we really want a showman.

Some will yes.

I actually like how Boris comes accross when he speaks and I actually the approach he speaks about with the EU to be fairly solid (if admittedly difficult).

But if we get an election (which really has to happen now), it'll be policies not people I will go for and at the moment I don't know enough.  I've never been a one party person so it will be a tough choice.  If we get an election that'll be a good thread....

[Hounslowrover]

BYFP, I assume you didn't watch his appearance at the despatch box yesterday, it was woeful with evasion and waffle. He had no response to Hammond or Gauke etc, etc. He can only perform on his own terms, note his avoidance of scrutiny by the press in the run uo to his election as leader.  The tv only shows snatches, you need to see the whole picture.

[BillyStubbsTears]

He was shocking yesterday. Utterly out if his depth. It's all front with him. There's nothing underpinning it, because he doesn't believe in anything. He's spent a career gaming opportunities to push his own advancement. You can't do that as PM.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BYFP, I assume you didn't watch his appearance at the despatch box yesterday, it was woeful with evasion and waffle. He had no response to Hammond or Gauke etc, etc. He can only perform on his own terms, note his avoidance of scrutiny by the press in the run uo to his election as leader.  The tv only shows snatches, you need to see the whole picture.

I saw some of it and agree he isn't always 100% on it, I have no issue with that.  None of it is that relevant, it's the substance of their actions that matter.  However, many do not see it that way, Ed Milliband will tell you that.  Corbyn on the other side has done very well out of being a good speaker and campaigner even if you question his policies you cannot knock the way he speaks and campaigns.

[albie]

Two Labour rebels voted against the Letwin motion – Kate Hoey and John Mann – as well as ex-Labour MPs Ian Austin and Ivan Lewis.

Hoey is standing down at the GE, but somebody needs to explain to John Mann what his options are.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I guess back to the original point, the Scottish courts today ruled the government has acted legally in proroguing parliament.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Caroline Lucas got it spot on last night.

She said that our constitutional arrangements are hopelessly out of date for this situation. They rely upon Govts being honest and playing by the rules. And this Govt, more than any previous one ever, is prepared to rip up the unspoken rule book.

So, they can technically prorogue Parliament on the subterfuge that it is what happens before a Queen's Speech. But everyone knows that is not the reason they've done it, and done it for this unprecedented length of time.

That Kitson Cummings is doing untold damage to the fabric that underpins our system of Govt. He, unelected nobody that he is, has taken it upon himself to smash our systems and conventions.

Well so be it then. He WILL be defeated and he'll not like what is re-built in its place.

[wing commander]

So just to have a little break from everybody's favorite hobby of Tory bashing ;-).. Were do we go from here??? Whatever the reasons,The Tory's who didn't want a GE suddenly see this as a great opportunity to have one.And thats not because they think they can then delay it and push through Brexit but because they see a opportunity to make life a lot more comfortable..

    They know Labour are in as much shambles as they are,and with all the recent polls somehow showing Boris extending the lead over Labour they would feel confident of having one and going into some kind of coalition with the Brexit party giving them a much better majority than the one they now haven't got now

    Labour and Libs on the other hand have spent the last year screaming for a election and now they can have one suddenly true to Labour form they flip flop and decide they wont vote for one.That of course is under the pretext that they are sacrificing that for their beliefs (depending what day it is) so the dates are not pushed back forcing a no deal brexit through.Reality is i'm not sure they want one regardless tbh...They are not worried about losing seats to the Tory's but they are worried about losing marginals to the Brexit party in leave areas and the Libs in remain...

   I've long since thought that it's all fine and Dandy lambasting the Tory's pitiful performance over the last four years and even as a tory i don't dispute that..However if you dont persuade the voters that you are the alternative then eventually you will finish up weaker than you started,and i would argue with anyone that Corbyn just doesn't and never will have enough support or trust to be sat in no10 with his own majority..

Whatever your political persuasions how this plays out and what the house will look like in 3 months is frankly anybody's guest but interesting times that for sure..

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wing Co

There is close to zero chance of Labour getting a majority. There is a moderate chance of a Lab/SNP/LD Govt.

What's going to happen now is good, old fashioned political positioning in advance if the inevitable Election.

The reason the Tories have been pulling away in the polls was entirely predictable (and predicted by me) 3 months back. It's because Johnson has moved the Tories very sharply to the Right and is pulling votes back from Farage.

Johnson desperately wants a GE before 31 Oct, so he can promise that if he gets a majority, we will leave on that date as he promised. That will neutralise Farage.

The Opposition want to delay a GE until after 31 Oct because then Johnson will have failed in his promise and the more rabid Brexit supporters are likely to bleed back to Farage and pull the Tories down.

There is another reason why the Opposition want a delay. Looking at the current economic figures, we are almost certainly already in recession. That'll be officially confirmed in late Oct/early Nov. That's the final argument in the Stop Johnson's Brexit campaign.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Wing Co

There is close to zero chance of Labour getting a majority. There is a moderate chance of a Lab/SNP/LD Govt.

What's going to happen now is good, old fashioned political positioning in advance if the inevitable Election.

The reason the Tories have been pulling away in the polls was entirely predictable (and predicted by me) 3 months back. It's because Johnson has moved the Tories very sharply to the Right and is pulling votes back from Farage.

Johnson desperately wants a GE before 31 Oct, so he can promise that if he gets a majority, we will leave on that date as he promised. That will neutralise Farage.

The Opposition want to delay a GE until after 31 Oct because then Johnson will have failed in his promise and the more rabid Brexit supporters are likely to bleed back to Farage and pull the Tories down.

There is another reason why the Opposition want a delay. Looking at the current economic figures, we are almost certainly already in recession. That'll be officially confirmed in late Oct/early Nov. That's the final argument in the Stop Johnson's Brexit campaign.

Disagree on your last point, Boris will play up to it further, the uncertainty is fuelling this downturn and we'd be better off out.  Subjective it is but an easy narrative, with some truth to it aswell as the uncertainty for some (not all) is a big problem.  There is a strong argument that pushing it back and back achieves nothing.  Then they will jump on the - it's just more money going out of the country to the EU line - simplistic and not at all correct in totality but plays up well.

Plus after all this, if it is delayed (again) do we just spend the first third of the delay in election mode achieving nothing?  Don't underestimate how many people are properly pissed off with another delay, people want it done one way or the other.

[GazLaz]

He was shocking yesterday. Utterly out if his depth. It's all front with him. There's nothing underpinning it, because he doesn't believe in anything. He's spent a career gaming opportunities to push his own advancement. You can't do that as PM.

That sums him up well. Johnson, JRM et al are not idiots by any means. They are very intelligent men, but like you say there is no integrity. They don’t channel their intelligence into anything for the right reason therefore it just becomes a web of shite they are always scrambling around in.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP

SOME people want it done one way or the other. There is no evidence that a majority of people do.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Gaz

It's Government by upper class spivs and wide boys. It's important to be clear about this. The old Tory party that claimed to be on the side of business and hard work has gone. It's been gutted.

Whatever you thought about their policies, they had a consistency to them and a philosophical guide. You knew more or less what they were trying to do, even if you thought it was wrong.

The current set have jettisoned that. There is no philosophical guide to them. It's about power and only power. They will ditch any principle, drop any policy, tell any lie they need to in order to secure power.

Hence, after a decade of saying that Austerity was vital, and after only last year voting for Austerity budgets right through to the mid-2020s, and after a decade of saying Labour's spending plans were unfeasible, whaddya know? They've suddenly found the Magic Money Tree this morning. Spending will be lavishly increased across the board.

Because there's an election coming and they want to buy votes.

[Ldr]

The Eton  brigade and the Momentum bully boys represent everything wrong and divisive within politics atm