The points from the Bolton game

[TheFunk]

Forgive if i'm wrong, but how come it's ok for our kids to play multiple games in a week. Albeit they are on loan.

[VikingRich]

Bolton committed to the league at the start of the season so that includes turning up for the games on the fixture list. They cannot unilaterally pick and choose which games to play when.

[DRNaith]

If we have to replay it i guess we can just cancel the game at short notice and rearrange it when it suits us better. If Bolton are allowed to get away with it then why not us. The precedent it sets is very dangerous so can't see any logic for the EFL allowing a replay. Unfortunately i can't help feeling like we will have to replay

You will be able to call off the re-arranged game if you so wish.
As long as you are willing to accept the points deduction that will come with it, as it will come to us.
And thats the deterrent to stop others doing it.

Of course, we wouldnt expect to be rewarded because you called off the game ........

Every post you make is just filled with more shite trying to justify what your club did, theres no justification for it, a precident was set last season when Brentford were awarded the points after you failed to fulfill that fixture

If you have actually read anything I have posted, you will see that in every post I have said that the administrators were wrong to call off the game. You will see that I think it was disgusting in the way that they did not inform either yourselves or the league before announcing it publically.
You will see that I think that the club should be hit with a massive points deduction as punishment.

The precedent was actually set with Middlesboro/Blackburn - points deduction for boro , match replayed. Brentford were awarded the points as the EFLs own rules state that all league games must be played no later than the Tuesday after the final scheduled league game, which in this case was impossible.(* reasons below.) Hence the awarding of the points. It also had no material difference on any clubs final position, so there was no-one wronged (except, I guess, the season ticket holders who were deprived of a game).

The only question is whether every other club in the league, who all have to play us at least once more, would think it fair that one club were awarded 3 points without having to play the game. The answer, in any sense, would be no. And thats why it will be replayed.

Should Gillingham be awarded the 3 points for tomorrow, as the EFL will now allow us to register players ? It is, after all, not their fault they play us after the takeover has been completed.
Would it be fair to replay all the games we have already played (Coventry would also certainly say so).
Should we be forced to finish the season with only the squad we currently have ?
From an outsiders point of view, the impression that one gets from most, not all, of the comments here is that Doncaster were victimised. That it was all about them. That it was a continuation of 97-98 when the EFL didnt do to you what they did to Bury, and almost to ourselves. That it was personal.

Ask yourself this, if it had been lincoln we called the game off against, would you be happy that they got the 3 points, and you played 2 games against a better team. And then you played them on the Saturday, after they had a week of rest whilst you played, and lost.

I'm not the one calling for unilaterally calling of games with no punishment, as you obviously are above.

* We could not play on the Saturday, as the EFL would not allow us to play the kids, due to the rule of not playing the kids in any game twice in any 4 day period - sound familiar?)
   We could not play in the midweek as the Council would not allow as a certificate.
   We could not play after the final game as the Brentford players had gone on holiday.

We will quite rightly be hit with a points deduction for our players going on strike.

Enjoy the rest of the seaon, I wish you all the best , and hopefully may bump into some for a pint when we play you later, either at your place, or ours.

You've gone from one initial post that gave-off some level of humility to now just being somewhere between muddying the waters and a downright WUM, I couldn't care less what you have to say, I agree with Rovers' stance, we should be awarded the three points as Bolton failed to field a team for the arranged fixture. It was postponed, Bolton didn't even act with any respect to the other parties involve. You need to be grateful that you still have a club and stop acting like you have a right to another home fixture with us this season.

DRNaith, the fixture wasn’t postponed.
Bolton refused to play.
There is a difference.

Yeah, I meant wasn't postponed. My post makes sense then!

[JonWallsend]

i think we just need to accept that we won't be getting the points and get on with it. Wait until the game is replayed and hopefully win and then we have the points anyway.
 
The arrogance that Bolton demonstrated towards Rovers in not having the courtesy to consult, or even inform the club they didn't intend to fulfil the fixture is the main problem but demonstrating a lack of respect and only caring about yourselves, which has been synonymous with Bolton since Gartside and his premiership closed shop vision, doesn't warrant us being awarded 3 points. It is simply one of those things. They do need to be punished with a points deduction but I can't see why we will be awarded the game.

Had it been Rotherham in our position would there be this clamour for the the game to be awarded to them. I doubt it.

Awarding the game sets a dangerous precedent. You could, back end of the season-comfortably in the play offs, decide you want a week off in preparation and thus give 3 points to the relegation threatened opposition, ensuring they stay up at someone else's expense. That is why the punishment and points deduction has to impact on Bolton and can not be to our benefit.

It isn't fair and I will not forget or forgive their founder members, ex-premier league, arrogance and contempt they demonstrated towards another club but as for getting the game it won't happen and I don't think it should.

[MartinBWFC]

Bolton fan in peace, it wasn't the club that cancelled the game, it was the admins, they rightly thought that a group of 16 and 17 year olds could not possibly get through 180 minutes of football against bigger and more professional clubs, now we've averted the crisis no more need for postponements, and how you come to the conclusion you deserve the 3 points and a 5-0 win is beyond the most sane persons mind.

[drfc1951]

Bolton fan in peace, it wasn't the club that cancelled the game, it was the admins, they rightly thought that a group of 16 and 17 year olds could not possibly get through 180 minutes of football against bigger and more professional clubs, now we've averted the crisis no more need for postponements, and how you come to the conclusion you deserve the 3 points and a 5-0 win is beyond the most sane persons mind.

The admins cancelled because you couldn't afford to stage 2 home games in a week.

[IDM]

Thanks for your input..

However until the other day, the administrator was Bolton wanderers. Also, your ex manager tried to get the Tranmere game called off and was refused permission, so no one asked about our game and Bolton called it off unilaterally.

That is the argument for the game being forfeit.. it is irrelevant that the game was against Doncaster or any other league one side.

I agree the default score for a forfeit fixture should not be 5-0, maybe 2-0 is fairer.

The issue is that regardless of the reasons, Bolton refused to play without notifying us nor the league.  That action in itself is not acceptable.

[dickos1]

Bolton fan in peace, it wasn't the club that cancelled the game, it was the admins, they rightly thought that a group of 16 and 17 year olds could not possibly get through 180 minutes of football against bigger and more professional clubs, now we've averted the crisis no more need for postponements, and how you come to the conclusion you deserve the 3 points and a 5-0 win is beyond the most sane persons mind.

There were no 16 year olds in the side for the game before and most of the players were 18 or over.
The reason given was nonsense

[Cbrover24]

Personally I don’t think there’s any chance we will be awarded 3pts, EFL will make us rearrange the game, this might not be fair, but everyone demanding we get the 3pts is just insane!  I just can’t see that happening one bit, with how week the EFL is!! This will be what happens, just you wait!!

[Filo]

Bolton fan in peace, it wasn't the club that cancelled the game, it was the admins, they rightly thought that a group of 16 and 17 year olds could not possibly get through 180 minutes of football against bigger and more professional clubs, now we've averted the crisis no more need for postponements, and how you come to the conclusion you deserve the 3 points and a 5-0 win is beyond the most sane persons mind.

Over half the team that played Tranmere were 20 years old and over

[bobbymax]

Bolton fan in peace, it wasn't the club that cancelled the game, it was the admins, they rightly thought that a group of 16 and 17 year olds could not possibly get through 180 minutes of football against bigger and more professional clubs, now we've averted the crisis no more need for postponements, and how you come to the conclusion you deserve the 3 points and a 5-0 win is beyond the most sane persons mind.

Over half the team that played Tranmere were 20 years old and over

I think that pretty much blows out the water any pretence that the match was cancelled to save the legs of youngsters. Take Copps out of the team and our average age would not have been much higher.

[scawsby steve]

We now know from this thread that Bolton supporters are as arrogant as their club.

We know that we'll have to replay the game. How I wish we had Rob Jones and Alan Little in the side to dish some out. This has become personal now.

[IDM]

To be honest, no we don’t..

We only saw a couple of Bolton fans and the EFL hasn’t made a decision yet..

[Bristol Red Rover]

i think we just need to accept that we won't be getting the points and get on with it. Wait until the game is replayed and hopefully win and then we have the points anyway.
 
The arrogance that Bolton demonstrated towards Rovers in not having the courtesy to consult, or even inform the club they didn't intend to fulfil the fixture is the main problem but demonstrating a lack of respect and only caring about yourselves, which has been synonymous with Bolton since Gartside and his premiership closed shop vision, doesn't warrant us being awarded 3 points. It is simply one of those things. They do need to be punished with a points deduction but I can't see why we will be awarded the game.

Had it been Rotherham in our position would there be this clamour for the the game to be awarded to them. I doubt it.

Awarding the game sets a dangerous precedent. You could, back end of the season-comfortably in the play offs, decide you want a week off in preparation and thus give 3 points to the relegation threatened opposition, ensuring they stay up at someone else's expense. That is why the punishment and points deduction has to impact on Bolton and can not be to our benefit.

It isn't fair and I will not forget or forgive their founder members, ex-premier league, arrogance and contempt they demonstrated towards another club but as for getting the game it won't happen and I don't think it should.

Good to hear a different view, however I will take issue with your point about the precident being set. Precidents are a myth in general. They can reasonably be used as a short cut to a decision where almost identical circumstances are in place, whereas what you are describing there as dangerous is a very different scenario so doesn't apply.

The EFL must take action here on the situation that occured. That is what would happen in a court of law. The significant points are that BWFC, manager and admin, tried to do this previously, were refused, and then went about it in an underhanded way deliberately undermining the rules of the EFL in a way that the EFL could not do anything about at the time. That in itself warrents a significant fine and points deduction (6 points would be fair). That some fans of DRFC have been robbed of various costs makes it worst.

Further, DRFC were disadvantaged in that they had prepared for the game which if it had taken place would almost certainly resulted in a significant win - the 5-0 results either side of the game make it clear what the realm of the result would have been. If a replay is to be ordered, that will again disadvantage DRFC in fixture pile up. It also appears clear that a rearranged fixture has to be agreed by both clubs and the EFL within 10 days - ie today. They are the rules.

The reasoning for the cancelling of the fixture is flakey at best, and as previously demonstrated with the non postponement of the Tranmere game, was not in line with the EFL. If anything, there is your precendent.

[Retdon1]

First signing through the door for them, Jack Hobbs from forest. Decent defender for league 1

[Bristol Red Rover]

Bolton fan in peace, it wasn't the club that cancelled the game, it was the admins, they rightly thought that a group of 16 and 17 year olds could not possibly get through 180 minutes of football against bigger and more professional clubs, now we've averted the crisis no more need for postponements, and how you come to the conclusion you deserve the 3 points and a 5-0 win is beyond the most sane persons mind.

I appreciate you posting here. Your claim is evidently wrong in terms of the ages you cite. There were also players in those games that were on the bench and ones not playing for the full 90. Further, the reason was not that they couldn't physically play but that they'd be mentally/emotionally harmed. Sure not nice to lose so many games, but hardly mentally scarring. Overall, it was nothing but a cavalier attempt to get a game delayed to try and salvage some points and avoid League 2, a way of attempting to increase the value of the club for the sale.

I've lost respect for your club in this, and with some of your fans too. Good luck with the venture capitalist owners.

[drfchound]

If we are good enough to have another FACup run this season that will inevitably mean we have to defer league games.
They will have to be played midweek, after a Christmas.
Having to play Bolton midweek as well will impact on our players.

How is that fair.

[drfc1951]

First signing through the door for them, Jack Hobbs from forest. Decent defender for league 1

I bet hes on a decent wage as well.

[Al4475]

I reckon it'll simply be another points deduction for bolton and a game rescheduled.

Fair or not? I dunno. But probably the way it'll be.

[IDM]

No, it wouldn’t be fair.  Why should the other 21 league clubs get a points advantage over Bolton, when it was Doncaster Rovers who were wronged.?

[OneandOnly]

Bolton fan in peace, it wasn't the club that cancelled the game, it was the admins, they rightly thought that a group of 16 and 17 year olds could not possibly get through 180 minutes of football against bigger and more professional clubs, now we've averted the crisis no more need for postponements, and how you come to the conclusion you deserve the 3 points and a 5-0 win is beyond the most sane persons mind.

Over half the team that played Tranmere were 20 years old and over

I think that pretty much blows out the water any pretence that the match was cancelled to save the legs of youngsters. Take Copps out of the team and our average age would not have been much higher.

bwfc v tranmere - starting XI - avg 21.18 - 5 @ 19 or under. match squad avg 19.55 ( 12 @ 19 or under)
Doncaster v fleetwood (same day) - Starting XI - avg 24.5 - 11 @ 20 or older) - match squad Avg 24.5 (18 @ 20 or over)

Consider that 24.5 is considered young for a squad, then think about one averaging 5 years younger.

[IDM]

Bolton fan in peace, it wasn't the club that cancelled the game, it was the admins, they rightly thought that a group of 16 and 17 year olds could not possibly get through 180 minutes of football against bigger and more professional clubs, now we've averted the crisis no more need for postponements, and how you come to the conclusion you deserve the 3 points and a 5-0 win is beyond the most sane persons mind.

Over half the team that played Tranmere were 20 years old and over

I think that pretty much blows out the water any pretence that the match was cancelled to save the legs of youngsters. Take Copps out of the team and our average age would not have been much higher.

bwfc v tranmere - starting XI - avg 21.18 - 5 @ 19 or under. match squad avg 19.55 ( 12 @ 19 or under)
Doncaster v fleetwood (same day) - Starting XI - avg 24.5 - 11 @ 20 or older) - match squad Avg 24.5 (18 @ 20 or over)

Consider that 24.5 is considered young for a squad, then think about one averaging 5 years younger.

That. Is. Not. The. Point..

It is the unilateral refusal to play without consent that is the issue.. it couldn’t be put much simpler, really..

[Bristol Red Rover]

bwfc v tranmere - starting XI - avg 21.18 - 5 @ 19 or under. match squad avg 19.55 ( 12 @ 19 or under)
Doncaster v fleetwood (same day) - Starting XI - avg 24.5 - 11 @ 20 or older) - match squad Avg 24.5 (18 @ 20 or over)

Consider that 24.5 is considered young for a squad, then think about one averaging 5 years younger.

Will you be crying off when you play against teams where the wages are higher? Oh, wait.... 

[OneandOnly]

Bolton fan in peace, it wasn't the club that cancelled the game, it was the admins, they rightly thought that a group of 16 and 17 year olds could not possibly get through 180 minutes of football against bigger and more professional clubs, now we've averted the crisis no more need for postponements, and how you come to the conclusion you deserve the 3 points and a 5-0 win is beyond the most sane persons mind.

Over half the team that played Tranmere were 20 years old and over

I think that pretty much blows out the water any pretence that the match was cancelled to save the legs of youngsters. Take Copps out of the team and our average age would not have been much higher.

bwfc v tranmere - starting XI - avg 21.18 - 5 @ 19 or under. match squad avg 19.55 ( 12 @ 19 or under)
Doncaster v fleetwood (same day) - Starting XI - avg 24.5 - 11 @ 20 or older) - match squad Avg 24.5 (18 @ 20 or over)

Consider that 24.5 is considered young for a squad, then think about one averaging 5 years younger.

That. Is. Not. The. Point..

It is the unilateral refusal to play without consent that is the issue.. it couldn’t be put much simpler, really..

misdirection. nice.
Someone said that your team was not much older. I pointed out that this was wrong. You have another pop about something different. I was offering no opinion of the rights or wrongs. But as you obviously thought i did ....

What more do you want ?

The League, quite rightly, will not award you (or anyone else) 3 points for a game that can still be played.
The League, quite rightly, will deduct points from the team that deserves points to be deducted.

Its. That. Simple.

There really seems to be a feeling that we called the game off to benefit somehow points wise. Even if we win the replayed game (for instance) 77-0 we woyld be worse off than if we had played and lost by a cricket score. It really is that simple. You were the unfortunate team that it immediately affected, but that, in no shape or form, entitles you to claim the points by default, because football doesn't work like that. Wherever, and whenever possible, the game gets played. Even if thats not on the original date.

See the last time a team called a game off, and it was possible to be replayed, points deduction for Middlesboro, replayed later in the season.

There was nothing personal in the decision, I apologise on behalf of the administrators to anyone who has taken it personally (and there appears to be many).

Once again, I wish you luck for the remainder of the season.

[dickos1]

Bolton fan in peace, it wasn't the club that cancelled the game, it was the admins, they rightly thought that a group of 16 and 17 year olds could not possibly get through 180 minutes of football against bigger and more professional clubs, now we've averted the crisis no more need for postponements, and how you come to the conclusion you deserve the 3 points and a 5-0 win is beyond the most sane persons mind.

Over half the team that played Tranmere were 20 years old and over

I think that pretty much blows out the water any pretence that the match was cancelled to save the legs of youngsters. Take Copps out of the team and our average age would not have been much higher.

bwfc v tranmere - starting XI - avg 21.18 - 5 @ 19 or under. match squad avg 19.55 ( 12 @ 19 or under)
Doncaster v fleetwood (same day) - Starting XI - avg 24.5 - 11 @ 20 or older) - match squad Avg 24.5 (18 @ 20 or over)

Consider that 24.5 is considered young for a squad, then think about one averaging 5 years younger.

I see you haven’t quoted Wimbledon’s average age, would that be because it’s lower than Bolton’s was?
I think so

[dickos1]

Bolton fan in peace, it wasn't the club that cancelled the game, it was the admins, they rightly thought that a group of 16 and 17 year olds could not possibly get through 180 minutes of football against bigger and more professional clubs, now we've averted the crisis no more need for postponements, and how you come to the conclusion you deserve the 3 points and a 5-0 win is beyond the most sane persons mind.

Over half the team that played Tranmere were 20 years old and over

I think that pretty much blows out the water any pretence that the match was cancelled to save the legs of youngsters. Take Copps out of the team and our average age would not have been much higher.

bwfc v tranmere - starting XI - avg 21.18 - 5 @ 19 or under. match squad avg 19.55 ( 12 @ 19 or under)
Doncaster v fleetwood (same day) - Starting XI - avg 24.5 - 11 @ 20 or older) - match squad Avg 24.5 (18 @ 20 or over)

Consider that 24.5 is considered young for a squad, then think about one averaging 5 years younger.

That. Is. Not. The. Point..

It is the unilateral refusal to play without consent that is the issue.. it couldn’t be put much simpler, really..

misdirection. nice.
Someone said that your team was not much older. I pointed out that this was wrong. You have another pop about something different. I was offering no opinion of the rights or wrongs. But as you obviously thought i did ....

What more do you want ?

The League, quite rightly, will not award you (or anyone else) 3 points for a game that can still be played.
The League, quite rightly, will deduct points from the team that deserves points to be deducted.

Its. That. Simple.

There really seems to be a feeling that we called the game off to benefit somehow points wise. Even if we win the replayed game (for instance) 77-0 we woyld be worse off than if we had played and lost by a cricket score. It really is that simple. You were the unfortunate team that it immediately affected, but that, in no shape or form, entitles you to claim the points by default, because football doesn't work like that. Wherever, and whenever possible, the game gets played. Even if thats not on the original date.

See the last time a team called a game off, and it was possible to be replayed, points deduction for Middlesboro, replayed later in the season.

There was nothing personal in the decision, I apologise on behalf of the administrators to anyone who has taken it personally (and there appears to be many).

Once again, I wish you luck for the remainder of the season.

You keep failing to see the point
Nobody cares about how it’s effected you, it’s us. We’re bothered about.
If we play you later in the season and draw and then miss out on the play offs by a couple of points behind Ipswich then it will mean the ridiculous behaviour of Bolton has effected the integrity of the league in a big way

[IDM]

Not misdirection at all, just pointing out that the age issue is irrelevant to what may follow with with the subsequent EFL action..

If Bolton get a points deduction as a punishment, all other league one clubs benefit to the value of those points..  it was however DRFC who were wronged, so why should 21 other clubs benefit.?

[Bristol Red Rover]

... I apologise on behalf of the administrators...

You can apologise on behalf of yourself, but that's it. We're still waiting for a full unreserved apology from the club, so far just whinging and whining and poor me. Nice try at making out it was the evil administrators who are responsible for this. It was at least also the medical staff and the manager ie the club.

[JonWallsend]

Bolton fan in peace, it wasn't the club that cancelled the game, it was the admins, they rightly thought that a group of 16 and 17 year olds could not possibly get through 180 minutes of football against bigger and more professional clubs, now we've averted the crisis no more need for postponements, and how you come to the conclusion you deserve the 3 points and a 5-0 win is beyond the most sane persons mind.

Over half the team that played Tranmere were 20 years old and over

I think that pretty much blows out the water any pretence that the match was cancelled to save the legs of youngsters. Take Copps out of the team and our average age would not have been much higher.

bwfc v tranmere - starting XI - avg 21.18 - 5 @ 19 or under. match squad avg 19.55 ( 12 @ 19 or under)
Doncaster v fleetwood (same day) - Starting XI - avg 24.5 - 11 @ 20 or older) - match squad Avg 24.5 (18 @ 20 or over)

Consider that 24.5 is considered young for a squad, then think about one averaging 5 years younger.

That. Is. Not. The. Point..

It is the unilateral refusal to play without consent that is the issue.. it couldn’t be put much simpler, really..

misdirection. nice.
Someone said that your team was not much older. I pointed out that this was wrong. You have another pop about something different. I was offering no opinion of the rights or wrongs. But as you obviously thought i did ....

What more do you want ?

The League, quite rightly, will not award you (or anyone else) 3 points for a game that can still be played.
The League, quite rightly, will deduct points from the team that deserves points to be deducted.

Its. That. Simple.

There really seems to be a feeling that we called the game off to benefit somehow points wise. Even if we win the replayed game (for instance) 77-0 we woyld be worse off than if we had played and lost by a cricket score. It really is that simple. You were the unfortunate team that it immediately affected, but that, in no shape or form, entitles you to claim the points by default, because football doesn't work like that. Wherever, and whenever possible, the game gets played. Even if thats not on the original date.

See the last time a team called a game off, and it was possible to be replayed, points deduction for Middlesboro, replayed later in the season.

There was nothing personal in the decision, I apologise on behalf of the administrators to anyone who has taken it personally (and there appears to be many).

Once again, I wish you luck for the remainder of the season.

I agree with you. I think we need to let it go now. Should Bolton not incur a points deduction then it will need to be revisited but we should not be awarded the points.

I think the experiences of 97/98 and to a certain extent the relegation on goals scored the season we had the Charlton abandonment does make us a little more weary as a fanbase when dealing with the Footballing authorities and all too aware of what can happen when a game (albeit different circumstances) has to be replayed some months after the original fixture.

We might not have won, Coventry didn't beat Bolton. We might have won 6-0. You just don't know. Anyone who has followed us for any period of time will know better than to take anything for granted. As such you can't come up with an arbitrary score line, we just have to play the game.

[IDM]

Have to agree to disagree..  we may not have won at Bolton but we were denied the chance to play when the EFL fixtures determined we should have, by means of the opposition refusing to play.

Until the EFL make a judgement on this, I believe we should - and I think the club are - be pressing to be given the points for a forfeit game..

If this had been in the FA Cup with 3 or 4 weeks to the next round, and one team not bothered to turn up, the other would probably get through to the next round.  Shouldn’t be different for a league fixture..

What happened at Charlton is irrelevant, as the abandonment was correct, if badly handled at the time..