Jeremy Corbyn

[Ldr]

I'll go out on a limb and say it. If labour dump him, they win.

I feel there will be a lot like me, who identify as centre right who currently couldn't consider voting for the bat shit craziness that is Boris nor could we ever consider voting for a party led by Corbyn (and Abbott or McDonnell ) goes back to my posts about personalities being more important than policies

It must be a decent pool of potential voters

[drfchound]

Labours best option would be Kier Starmer.

[BillyStubbsTears]

These are fair points but they won't get a hearing in the Labour party at the moment. There's an unshakable conviction that Labour got 40% in 2017 because Corbyn was wildly popular, rather than because there wasn't a realistic anti-Tory alternative then. And an equally unshakable refusal to engage with polls that have him as the most unpopular Leader of the Opposition in history.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he will turn it round again. But the problem is that he's frittered away the popularity he did have in 2017 among Remain supporters and they've poured out to the LDs and Greens. It is a monumental job to pull them back.

To me, the outcome of the upcoming election depends on whether there is very sophisticated tactical voting on the centre and left and whether the BP and Tory parties have an informal alliance.

[Pancho Regan]

It’s a cruel twist of fate that at the very time we have the worst, most odious, most dangerous Government in my lifetime (ok, a close contest with Thatcher I admit) that at the same time we have such a terrible leader of the Labour Party.

It is sad beyond words. Any decent leader and we could look forward to a Labour landslide.
As it stands, I find myself looking at my options in the imminent G.E. and really scratching my head.

I watched Tony Blair speaking about Brexit the other night and found myself hoping for a Fairy Godmother to grant me a wish to bring him back.

[SydneyRover]

Excerpts from the Guardian:

With the government shorn of its majority, and the Brexit deadline looming, the odds of an imminent election have dramatically reduced. So it’s worth examining the current state of the parties in the polls. What’s important to bear in mind, of course, is that polling provides a snapshot of public opinion at the time the poll is taken, and we are currently living in a highly volatile political situation.

Nationally, the Conservatives are strongest among those aged 65 or older (remember, older people are more likely to vote than younger people), people who own their own home outright, people without formal qualifications, and leave supporters (of course, these groups are all interlinked).

Labour’s strongest demographics are the under-35s, public-sector workers and renters. It does better among remain groups than leave groups – and even better among those who did not vote in the 2016 referendum (reflecting its younger age profile).

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/04/election-polls-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn

[wilts rover]

On a slight tangent did you know that this week Corbyn became the most successful opposition leader since the war.

Margaret Thatcher defeated the government 40 times, Corbyn has now won 41 votes. Funny old world.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

How many opposition leaders lost an election and got another shot?

I cant see how I would vote for Corbyn's labour. Probably more than I cant see myself voting for Johnson's tories.  It comes down to which of the parties I would hate least right now.

If I voted based on Europe, probably the tories. Based on everything, it would be close on a number of things.  I'm yet to decide where my election vote would go.

[bobjimwilly]

Imagine Corybn wasn't leader; would you vote for the Labour party based on their manifesto? If so, then the answer is Labour. Simples

[SydneyRover]

BFYP have you read Albie's post on 'Dark Money' and if yes has it affected your above stated position?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Imagine Corybn wasn't leader; would you vote for the Labour party based on their manifesto? If so, then the answer is Labour. Simples

No I wouldnt, its probably more the opposite, I'd certainly probably vote Tory if their personnel were better.  Corbyn has many faults, but they all do.  I've actually grown to like John McDonnell a lot aswell, he appeared an idiot at first but has certainly grown in stature.l, as has corbyn to be fair. Ultimately there are policies of theirs that just dont make sense to me.

Having said this, until a full manifesto is published who knows where my vote will go. Its moved a couple of times in the past and will do so again.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've said many times, McDonnell understands how a capitalist economy works FAR better than any Tory Chancellor going back 50 years, with the possible exception of Ken Clarke.

The history of the rest of them is horrific.

Hammond and Osborne implemented insane Austerity measures which is the 180 degree opposite of what any basic university economics course would tell you to do to a depressed economy. We have had the worst recovery from recession since the South Sea Bubble as a result and have lost a decade of economic growth.

Lamont was destroyed in 1992 by the financial markets when trying to keep the pound tied to the Deutschmark and suffered the most humiliating defeat for any Chancellor since the War.

Lawson stupidly cut taxes as the economy was booming in 1988, leading to runaway inflation and the inevitable bust of the 1990 recession.

Geoffrey Howe made the incomprehensible mistake of raising I retest rates and cutting Govt spending at the depth of a recession in 1981, turning a bad recession into a catastrophic one, trebling unemployment and starting the collapse of industry in the UK.

Anthony Barber poured Govt spending into an already overheating economy in 1972, leading to an unsustainable boom and the massive increase in inflation of the mid-70s.

50 years of almost continuous failure by Tory Chancellor's, because of a failure to understand the basic precepts of capitalist macroeconomics.

McDonnell understands this. It's clear in every speech he gives. His economics are no more radical than Ken Clarke's in 1993, but he's painted as some sort of mad Marxist. That shows you how far the Tories have moved from anything remotely resembling sensible economics or politics.

[scawsby steve]

Imagine Corybn wasn't leader; would you vote for the Labour party based on their manifesto? If so, then the answer is Labour. Simples

Labour manifesto? You mean like the one that lied in 2017 when it said it would honour the decision of the British people to leave the EU?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Imagine Corybn wasn't leader; would you vote for the Labour party based on their manifesto? If so, then the answer is Labour. Simples

Labour manifesto? You mean like the one that lied in 2017 when it said it would honour the decision of the British people to leave the EU?

Read the bloody thing, eh?

You seem to have missed this bit:

Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and, if needs be, negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a ‘cliff-edge’ for the UK economy.

[DonnyOsmond]

Lol at Steve

[RobTheRover]

Steve, what's the Daily Mail say this morning about Labour, mate?

[foxbat]

looks like Jeremy and the Rebel Alliance has made us better off already

The pound has surged against the dollar as the markets react to Boris Johnson losing control of Brexit.

Sterling posted its biggest increases in six months on Wednesday morning after parliament voted to block the prime minister taking the UK out of the EU without a deal.

The currency hit $1.2347, its strongest value in a week, just before 11.20am UK time. That followed an overnight surge of 1.4 per cent, its biggest one-day jump since March.

The Independent‏ Verified account @Independent 2h2 hours ago

[Axholme Lion]

I've said many times, McDonnell understands how a capitalist economy works FAR better than any Tory Chancellor going back 50 years, with the possible exception of Ken Clarke.

The history of the rest of them is horrific.

Hammond and Osborne implemented insane Austerity measures which is the 180 degree opposite of what any basic university economics course would tell you to do to a depressed economy. We have had the worst recovery from recession since the South Sea Bubble as a result and have lost a decade of economic growth.

Lamont was destroyed in 1992 by the financial markets when trying to keep the pound tied to the Deutschmark and suffered the most humiliating defeat for any Chancellor since the War.

Lawson stupidly cut taxes as the economy was booming in 1988, leading to runaway inflation and the inevitable bust of the 1990 recession.

Geoffrey Howe made the incomprehensible mistake of raising I retest rates and cutting Govt spending at the depth of a recession in 1981, turning a bad recession into a catastrophic one, trebling unemployment and starting the collapse of industry in the UK.

Anthony Barber poured Govt spending into an already overheating economy in 1972, leading to an unsustainable boom and the massive increase in inflation of the mid-70s.

50 years of almost continuous failure by Tory Chancellor's, because of a failure to understand the basic precepts of capitalist macroeconomics.

McDonnell understands this. It's clear in every speech he gives. His economics are no more radical than Ken Clarke's in 1993, but he's painted as some sort of mad Marxist. That shows you how far the Tories have moved from anything remotely resembling sensible economics or politics.

McDonell would have you use your spare bedroom to house asylum seekers at gun point.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I've said many times, McDonnell understands how a capitalist economy works FAR better than any Tory Chancellor going back 50 years, with the possible exception of Ken Clarke.

The history of the rest of them is horrific.

Hammond and Osborne implemented insane Austerity measures which is the 180 degree opposite of what any basic university economics course would tell you to do to a depressed economy. We have had the worst recovery from recession since the South Sea Bubble as a result and have lost a decade of economic growth.

Lamont was destroyed in 1992 by the financial markets when trying to keep the pound tied to the Deutschmark and suffered the most humiliating defeat for any Chancellor since the War.

Lawson stupidly cut taxes as the economy was booming in 1988, leading to runaway inflation and the inevitable bust of the 1990 recession.

Geoffrey Howe made the incomprehensible mistake of raising I retest rates and cutting Govt spending at the depth of a recession in 1981, turning a bad recession into a catastrophic one, trebling unemployment and starting the collapse of industry in the UK.

Anthony Barber poured Govt spending into an already overheating economy in 1972, leading to an unsustainable boom and the massive increase in inflation of the mid-70s.

50 years of almost continuous failure by Tory Chancellor's, because of a failure to understand the basic precepts of capitalist macroeconomics.

McDonnell understands this. It's clear in every speech he gives. His economics are no more radical than Ken Clarke's in 1993, but he's painted as some sort of mad Marxist. That shows you how far the Tories have moved from anything remotely resembling sensible economics or politics.

McDonell would have you use your spare bedroom to house asylum seekers at gun point.

Britain's Got Talent has a lot to answer for.

[Axholme Lion]

I've said many times, McDonnell understands how a capitalist economy works FAR better than any Tory Chancellor going back 50 years, with the possible exception of Ken Clarke.

The history of the rest of them is horrific.

Hammond and Osborne implemented insane Austerity measures which is the 180 degree opposite of what any basic university economics course would tell you to do to a depressed economy. We have had the worst recovery from recession since the South Sea Bubble as a result and have lost a decade of economic growth.

Lamont was destroyed in 1992 by the financial markets when trying to keep the pound tied to the Deutschmark and suffered the most humiliating defeat for any Chancellor since the War.

Lawson stupidly cut taxes as the economy was booming in 1988, leading to runaway inflation and the inevitable bust of the 1990 recession.

Geoffrey Howe made the incomprehensible mistake of raising I retest rates and cutting Govt spending at the depth of a recession in 1981, turning a bad recession into a catastrophic one, trebling unemployment and starting the collapse of industry in the UK.

Anthony Barber poured Govt spending into an already overheating economy in 1972, leading to an unsustainable boom and the massive increase in inflation of the mid-70s.

50 years of almost continuous failure by Tory Chancellor's, because of a failure to understand the basic precepts of capitalist macroeconomics.

McDonnell understands this. It's clear in every speech he gives. His economics are no more radical than Ken Clarke's in 1993, but he's painted as some sort of mad Marxist. That shows you how far the Tories have moved from anything remotely resembling sensible economics or politics.

McDonell would have you use your spare bedroom to house asylum seekers at gun point.

Britain's Got Talent has a lot to answer for.

Are you lot trapped in a 1970s South Yorkshire bubble as regards voting Labour. You are so out of touch with the vast bulk of the country.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Imagine Corybn wasn't leader; would you vote for the Labour party based on their manifesto? If so, then the answer is Labour. Simples

Labour manifesto? You mean like the one that lied in 2017 when it said it would honour the decision of the British people to leave the EU?

SS.

If you're going to hammer on about this, you'd be well advised to check what the manifesto actually said.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've said many times, McDonnell understands how a capitalist economy works FAR better than any Tory Chancellor going back 50 years, with the possible exception of Ken Clarke.

The history of the rest of them is horrific.

Hammond and Osborne implemented insane Austerity measures which is the 180 degree opposite of what any basic university economics course would tell you to do to a depressed economy. We have had the worst recovery from recession since the South Sea Bubble as a result and have lost a decade of economic growth.

Lamont was destroyed in 1992 by the financial markets when trying to keep the pound tied to the Deutschmark and suffered the most humiliating defeat for any Chancellor since the War.

Lawson stupidly cut taxes as the economy was booming in 1988, leading to runaway inflation and the inevitable bust of the 1990 recession.

Geoffrey Howe made the incomprehensible mistake of raising I retest rates and cutting Govt spending at the depth of a recession in 1981, turning a bad recession into a catastrophic one, trebling unemployment and starting the collapse of industry in the UK.

Anthony Barber poured Govt spending into an already overheating economy in 1972, leading to an unsustainable boom and the massive increase in inflation of the mid-70s.

50 years of almost continuous failure by Tory Chancellor's, because of a failure to understand the basic precepts of capitalist macroeconomics.

McDonnell understands this. It's clear in every speech he gives. His economics are no more radical than Ken Clarke's in 1993, but he's painted as some sort of mad Marxist. That shows you how far the Tories have moved from anything remotely resembling sensible economics or politics.

McDonell would have you use your spare bedroom to house asylum seekers at gun point.

Well I pity the poor t**t who gets lumbered with you.

[tommy toes]

Boris on the Tele this morning talking about the boost he's going to give to Scotland, farming, the NHS, infrastructure etc...
'with interest rates so low now's the time to do it.'
Well interest rates have been low for years about as long as John McDonnell had been advocating the borrowing that Boris is now doing.
8 years of Austerity, food banks, poverty, councils starved of money for absolutely no good reason.
If this lot get in again at the Election it'll be the biggest calamity of all time.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Shameless.

Utterly f**king shameless.

[Donnywolf]

Goes without saying but if someone tried to write this up as a Novel most people would read the first Chapter and chuck it down as being "unbelievable" "too far fetched" "ridiculous" "stupid" "implausible" or

" insert your own here ......"

[RobTheRover]

Boris was at the West Yorkshire Police HQ near where I work yesterday afternoon. As I drove past (slowly, as the police had closed one lane of the dual carriageway for safety) there were probably 150 protesters outside with placards about the police austerity cuts over the past near decade of Tory-led economics. All the cars passing were hooting their horns in agreement.

[rtid88]

It’s a cruel twist of fate that at the very time we have the worst, most odious, most dangerous Government in my lifetime (ok, a close contest with Thatcher I admit) that at the same time we have such a terrible leader of the Labour Party.

It is sad beyond words. Any decent leader and we could look forward to a Labour landslide.
As it stands, I find myself looking at my options in the imminent G.E. and really scratching my head.

I watched Tony Blair speaking about Brexit the other night and found myself hoping for a Fairy Godmother to grant me a wish to bring him back.

I would rather have Corbyn in charge than that war mongering pillock......and I cant stand Corbyn...

[albie]

A group of distinguished economists have written to the FT today, in response to an FT series, supporting the Labour policy stance on the economy:
https://www.ft.com/content/6da72060-cfd2-11e9-99a4-b5ded7a7fe3f

If the link doesn't work because of the paywall, try via Twitter:
https://twitter.com/mazzucatom?lang=en

Whether you like Corbyn as an individual is not really relevant.
Look at the policy, and suggest improvements if you can.

EDIT
Same letter in PDF;
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kPspUtGjSfqQ-EaclTwpasJWdpK-Y4JL/view

[BillyStubbsTears]

Johnson using the police cadets as a backdrop for a blatantly electioneering speech yesterday was a disgrace. An absolute disgrace. The CC of West Yorks has complained about it today.

[idler]

Drastically reduce police numbers and then start recruiting and try to take credit for increasing the numbers shameless.
May as home secreary decimated the police and said complaints and warnings were scare tactics. One of my son-in-laws is a police inspector at Wakefield so he probably had to suffer Boris and his cronies yesterday.
Politicians make decisions and policy and then the bobbies on the beat have to clean it up.

[DRFCSouth]

I've said many times, McDonnell understands how a capitalist economy works FAR better than any Tory Chancellor going back 50 years, with the possible exception of Ken Clarke.

The history of the rest of them is horrific.

Hammond and Osborne implemented insane Austerity measures which is the 180 degree opposite of what any basic university economics course would tell you to do to a depressed economy. We have had the worst recovery from recession since the South Sea Bubble as a result and have lost a decade of economic growth.

Lamont was destroyed in 1992 by the financial markets when trying to keep the pound tied to the Deutschmark and suffered the most humiliating defeat for any Chancellor since the War.

Lawson stupidly cut taxes as the economy was booming in 1988, leading to runaway inflation and the inevitable bust of the 1990 recession.

Geoffrey Howe made the incomprehensible mistake of raising I retest rates and cutting Govt spending at the depth of a recession in 1981, turning a bad recession into a catastrophic one, trebling unemployment and starting the collapse of industry in the UK.

Anthony Barber poured Govt spending into an already overheating economy in 1972, leading to an unsustainable boom and the massive increase in inflation of the mid-70s.

50 years of almost continuous failure by Tory Chancellor's, because of a failure to understand the basic precepts of capitalist macroeconomics.

McDonnell understands this. It's clear in every speech he gives. His economics are no more radical than Ken Clarke's in 1993, but he's painted as some sort of mad Marxist. That shows you how far the Tories have moved from anything remotely resembling sensible economics or politics.

McDonell would have you use your spare bedroom to house asylum seekers at gun point.

Britain's Got Talent has a lot to answer for.

Are you lot trapped in a 1970s South Yorkshire bubble as regards voting Labour. You are so out of touch with the vast bulk of the country.

Absolutely. Spot on. 👍