Labour policies

[drfchound]

Just watching a film on tv, The Kingsman.
Samuel L Jackson playing the deranged baddy has just announced free broadband for everyone, forever.
Just saying like.

[wilts rover]

They said Copernicus was mad for suggesting the earth circled the sun.

They said Da Vinci was mad for suggesting that man could ever fly.

Just saying like.

[drfchound]

Ah but some people think that a Corbyn will be PM.
Now that is crazy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

They said the 1945 Labour Govt would introduce the Gestapo to Britain.

They said that the NHS would bankrupt the country.

They said that equal wages for women and the minimum wage would destroy the economy.

They've said a lot whenever radical ideas are put forward. They've usually been totally wrong.

[Bentley Bullet]

Who's they? Economists?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Who's they? Economists?

Churchill said the first one. In a Party Political Broadcast.

[drfchound]

We will see soon enough whether that run continues BST.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

That's all well and good BST, but if you have a mortgage you have to make sure you can pay it off and resist the temptation to not build some surplus if it does yield benefits and that is the problem, that doesnt happen.  There is a wider question as to if we can trust that point given the interlinking of the global economy these days.

There are of course real questions as to the cost benefit of some of these schemes like free broadband which economically doesnt have a huge benefit. Granted a big infrastructure project can have a huge impact but I'm not sure some of the proposals would eg free bus travel, absolutely pointless.

[wilts rover]

  "Odd" Billy, I call it experienced. The greatest ambitions the labour party have had are always with money taken from someone else, while the real rich investors in the UK take their money elsewhere  for better returns on their investments.
   Only when the terms are right will people invest money, like yourself people will not work for no return, and now it is even easier to invest in industries outside our borders, other countries making it easier and easier to do so aided by new technologies.
 A vote for labour will only accelerate money leaving these shores quicker than ever before, and the people who will be the first to suffer will be those that can least afford it.
   When you point the finger at the usual crew, think that nearly all have started out like you, being brought up to think that the labour party are the party with their best interests at heart, but have learnt by Experience it is a load of empty promises that 1) they can't implement and 2) had no intention of going ahead with their policies in the first place.
 
 

Somebody had best take selby's pc/tablet/phone away from him before he see's this or he will go mad:

Tory spending promises will mean tax rises for everybody say Institute of Fiscal Studies.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-tory-tax-spending-sajid-javid-boris-johnson-ifs-economy-a9203511.html

Your friendly reminder of course that Labour plan to raise taxes for only those earning over £80k, that is the top 5%

[SydneyRover]

Selby doesn't mind as 'he's a long way to fall' says a lot about Selby don't you think? 

[Bentley Bullet]

Who's they? Economists?

Churchill said the first one. In a Party Political Broadcast.

He also said “Politics is the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn’t happen.”

[albie]

BFYP,

Why do you think the broadband policy does not show a strong cost benefit outcome?

The point of these policies is that they speak to each other, and show compounded improvements over and above the direct impact of any one specific measure.

Free or low cost public transport is essential to meet climate obligations, but it also reduces local pollution impacts, and changes the dynamics of residential and commercial location.

What Labour are trying to do is rebuild the public realm...to say to people these are benefits to all, needed for social progress and creating a prosperous future in which we all have a stake, as owners as well as users.

The Thatcher years of privatisation have failed in numerous sectors, and in some cases just made former utilities monopoly suppliers.

Can you move to another water company to get a better deal?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP.

Free public transport is a no brainer if you want to really encourage people to leave their cars at home and reduce urban pollution and carbon footprint.

You reckon those are pointless?

[SydneyRover]

Free public transit is gaining popularity in European cities

How do you encourage people to take public transit more? One option is to make it free.

That’s what the city of Dunkirk, France, did in September when it made buses free and accessible to all passengers, even visitors. With a population of roughly 200,000, Dunkirk is the largest city in Europe to offer free public transit,

https://qz.com/1442882/free-public-transit-is-gaining-popularity-in-european-cities/

[Glyn_Wigley]

Who's they? Economists?

Churchill said the first one. In a Party Political Broadcast.

He also said “Politics is the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn’t happen.”

So? What the fecks that got to do with his Gestapo smear?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BFYP.

Free public transport is a no brainer if you want to really encourage people to leave their cars at home and reduce urban pollution and carbon footprint.

You reckon those are pointless?

No that actually is a fair point.  It requires a massive investment in cleaner vehicles thiugh. The average bus emits far more than a car meaning it requires a certain level of occupancy to be viable, here I see the point in free travel. However it is not just cost is it? It has to be time effective and able to get you to your destination. That requires an awful lot of vehicles to be added to the roads.

I work opposite a train station for example, it just isnt viable to get there from home via train. These ideas work in London etc but I dont think the structure round here is really built for it and how many vehicles would you need to pull it off?

[Bentley Bullet]

Who's they? Economists?

Churchill said the first one. In a Party Political Broadcast.

He also said “Politics is the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn’t happen.”

So? What the fecks that got to do with his Gestapo smear?

It's to do with his point that politicians get things wrong (as turned out to be the case in his Gestapo political broadcast) and that they need the ability to explain afterwards why their forecasts didn't happen.

[SydneyRover]

For routes within a few miles of a population centres good bus services are much more efficient than cars averaging a 1.6 person occupancy rate.

For routes further out shuttles can be used to connect.

Private public transport systems chase the dollar and shut down unprofitable routes instead of cross subsidizing as a state owned system would/should.

Privatize then subsidise.

[DonnyOsmond]

The subject is about how Labour would finance their promised manifesto. I don't think they would, and I don't think they will have to anyway.

You don't even know what's on their manifesto though and neither do the Tory party. It was only finalised yesterday and doesn't get released until Thursday.

[bobjimwilly]

Privatize then subsidise.

Isn't that the system we already have, that isn't working?

[River Don]

BFYP.

Free public transport is a no brainer if you want to really encourage people to leave their cars at home and reduce urban pollution and carbon footprint.

You reckon those are pointless?

No that actually is a fair point.  It requires a massive investment in cleaner vehicles thiugh. The average bus emits far more than a car meaning it requires a certain level of occupancy to be viable, here I see the point in free travel. However it is not just cost is it? It has to be time effective and able to get you to your destination. That requires an awful lot of vehicles to be added to the roads.

I work opposite a train station for example, it just isnt viable to get there from home via train. These ideas work in London etc but I dont think the structure round here is really built for it and how many vehicles would you need to pull it off?

There are electric busses now that don't produce emissions. Their range is rather limited I believe though and they are expensive. A better option would be a trolley bus system I think.

[SydneyRover]

Yep trolley buses like we used to have (my parents never owned a car, lived in a puddle too) or even as an interim, natural gas buses which are already in service in some places. although the greenhouse effect of burning natural gas is pretty bad it doesn't have the fine particle matter pollution which diesel puts out, there is no safe level of pm2.5

[Sprotyrover]

They said the 1945 Labour Govt would introduce the Gestapo to Britain.

They said that the NHS would bankrupt the country.

They said that equal wages for women and the minimum wage would destroy the economy.
M
They've said a lot whenever radical ideas are put forward. They've usually been totally wrong.

The wasted use of our Marshal plan money on the NHS certainly crippled the country.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I see Corbyn's gone back into "I'm going to sabotage Labour because I can't possibly just park my student obsessions" mode today.

He was asked on Marr if he agreed that NATO was the most successful military alliance in history. His immediate reaction was "Well I'm not sure if describe it as that exactly."

Jesus f**king wept. He appears oblivious to how many supporters this sort of self indulgent idiocy loses.

[BigH]

I know. It makes you want to weep doesn't it (or maybe that's just me).

Once again, proof that Corbyn is not a credible politician but a placard protesting contrarian.

History will be very unkind to JC and his clique. By being so utterly ineffective and unelectable as an opposition, they've allowed the UK equivalent of the Alt Right to get to the verge of majority government - by the 13th December it could well be in power - with all the profound implications that that would have for the economy and the social fabric of this nation for years to come.

[Sprotyrover]

If the worst case scenario was to happen and Labour did win, you would have to recall the last time 300,000 nutters took over a political movement and got into power!

[wilts rover]

I take it you two both watched the interview. Because this is what Corbyn actually said:

When asked whether NATO is the most successful military alliance in history: “I’m not sure I’d define it as that – I would define it as a product of an attempt to bring people together during after the second world war and that we are obviously members of NATO and our voice will be in NATO there to try to reduce tensions.”

On the role for NATO going forward: “I think there has to be some kind of relationship and alliance in order to make sure there aren’t conflicts between member states but the whole point is Turkey is a member state and is now in conflict with the views of many, many others. President Macron takes the view there has to be a stronger European voice rather than a NATO voice – that’s always been his position; I think there has to be a coming together around the world.”

He added: “The USA is increasingly moving to an Asian-Pacific position in what it does and the tensions that could arise in the Pacific are actually as dangerous and as great as anything on the borders of western Europe and Russia.”

I would not define it as a military alliance - I would define it as an attempt to bring people together.

https://labourlist.org/2019/11/sunday-shows-corbyn-on-brexit-nato-and-trident/

[wilts rover]

If the worst case scenario was to happen and Labour did win, you would have to recall the last time 300,000 nutters took over a political movement and got into power!

Mate if Labour don't win - 90, 000 nutters will have taken over a political movement and got into power. And they expelled their moderates.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes Wilts. I did see the whole thing.

You realise, I'm sure,that this is a General Election campaign, not a North London Poly Socialist Students Society debate.

Which part of that ramble do you think gets the prominence? The first 8 words of course.

And why do you think it strikes home?

Could it be because he's spent his career campaigning against NATO as a concept? He's accused it of being one of if not THE greatest threat to world peace.

And yet...Putin can flatten Aleppo, can annex Crimea, can destroy Grozny and not a word of criticism.

If the Labour leadership knew anything about the Election campaign, they'd know that this was Corbyn's biggest Achilles Heel by a million miles. And it was a subject bound to arise. So you deal with it by shutting it down. Not by starting a wild ramble with a few ill thought out words that are going to be thrown back at you.

But he can't. Because he's spent his entire career preaching to the converted that NATO is the Great Evil.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And when I say "ramble" just re-read this word salad.

“I think there has to be some kind of relationship and alliance in order to make sure there aren’t conflicts between member states but the whole point is Turkey is a member state and is now in conflict with the views of many, many others. President Macron takes the view there has to be a stronger European voice rather than a NATO voice – that’s always been his position; I think there has to be a coming together around the world.”

It's utterly incoherent. It suggest a total lack of strategic thinking on one of the biggest issues facing any PM.

But he's not got a lack.of strategic thinking on the subject. He was clear for decades on what he thought, right up to Autumn 2015.

He's had a lifetime of wanting us out of NATO and wanting us out of the EU. What he now does, because he cannot say either of those two things, but he equally cannot find it in him to praise them, is, he spouts incoherent bullshit. Like the night before the EU Ref when he explained to a left wing video blog that he understood the Left argument against the EU (he would: he espoused it for 35 years) but in balance he was in favour of Remain because plastic bags dropped into the sea off Colombia can end up in Japan.

I have to pinch myself a go and check everytime I write that, that it did actually happen because it sounds like something from a shite satire.

It did. 25:10 here.
https://www.democracynow.org/2016/6/21/jeremy_corbyn_why_i_am_voting

That was his approach to campaigning in the last few hours before the Brexit Ref.