Labour policies

[Ldr]

BST don’t you find that the attitude of modern labour? Fingers in ears not listening, any criticism is propaganda?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

No.

I think there is a lot of clear listening and clar thinking and changing of opinion by many people in the Labour party, especially McDonnell, Thornberry and Starmer. But I do think it's the approach of a small number of overly powerful people around Corbyn who have had 40 years to hone their rock-solid dogma, and who see anyone who doesn't agree with them as a threat to be taken down.

Milne, McCluskey, Murray and Murphy WILL kill the Labour party if they are not neutered.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

But dont they hold the power particularly the unions? I'm clearly no expert on labour but dont the unions hold over 50% of voting rights so can dictate the policy?

[BillyStubbsTears]

This from McCluskey is breathtaking.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/len-mccluskey-unite-labour-party-tom-watson-plot-coup-conference-a9115256.html%3famp

Corbyn took over the Labour party promising a new approach,with the members deciding policy.

What's happened here is the very, very worst of the old Stalinist top-down trade union control.

McCluskey has told Corbyn what the Brexit policy will be. Corbyn has spent twelve months going against what the majority of the membership want because (in his own words) he has to take "the wider movement" (ie the big unions) with him.

Having controlled Corbyn, McCluskey is here, at this time, so close to an election, telling other senior Shadow Cabinet members that they can suck it up and keep their gobs shut, or f**k off.

How in God's name did this party get to here, with a 60 year out of date ideological fossil dictating policy out of sight? A man elected as General Secretary of his union on a 12% turnout, telling the party what to do.

[wilts rover]

Did you see the actual interview Billy? The question was, if Labour have a neutral position should Shadow Cabinet members be allowed to campaign for remain.

Since when has sticking to an agreed Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet position been 'Stalinist'? If you don't like the policy that the leadership has, any policy of any party at any time, then you shouldn't be in the leadership. Campaign from the back benches.

That was what McCluskey said. Your post might be what you think but in the context of what McCluskey said it is complete rubbish and nothing but disgraceful propaganda.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes I saw his interview. He's speaking with his own mouth in the video clip in that link I posted. What do you think I'm basing my opinion on?

He said Corbyn has said what the policy is (that New Politics of inclusivity in decision making seems like a long time ago...) and if Shadow Cabinet members don't like it, they are free to step down.

That's where we are now. People like Thornberry and McDonnell are the enemy to the laager around Corbyn.

The point is it is NOT an "agreed Shadow Cabinet position." Corbyn discussed with the 4Ms and told the Shadow Cabinet what the policy was.

[albie]

Staying on topic, Labour have produced figures setting out the costs of the policy iniatives:
http://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Funding-Britains-Future.pdf

I wish all parties did proper costings with their offer.

[Ldr]

Shame policies will take a backseat to personality, Corbyn is killing Labour

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The 4 day week one is interesting, in principle a good idea and socially one we would all like. Putting on my business head though, how do we make it work and pay?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Cracking speech by John McDonnell just now at the conference. How can you not vote for what he's said?

[wing commander]

  You cant it's that simple..There is no way business in this Country can afford to operate  a 4 day week,pay the amount of money to keep people at the same level of wages..Throw in a few new bank holidays and the added tax no doubt will come under Labour as well and expect them to be competitive with the rest of the world..High unemployment,high interest rates and soaring inflation would be the outcome of that plan... Like it is with past Labour goverments..

[Bristol Red Rover]

The 4 day week one is interesting, in principle a good idea and socially one we would all like. Putting on my business head though, how do we make it work and pay?

People working on day 5 are soooo inefficient. Not only that but with 4 days, their inspiration, enthusiasm, health, and so on is all improved. It's a no brainer.

Where it is a negative is that it allows people more time to think, to be dissatisfied with the bullshit they are fed my Tory media and elitists. Scary eh?

[MachoMadness]

I increasingly feel McDonnell is the most Prime Ministerial figure we have at the moment.

[Bristol Red Rover]

  You cant it's that simple..There is no way business in this Country can afford to operate  a 4 day week,pay the amount of money to keep people at the same level of wages..Throw in a few new bank holidays and the added tax no doubt will come under Labour as well and expect them to be competitive with the rest of the world..High unemployment,high interest rates and soaring inflation would be the outcome of that plan... Like it is with past Labour goverments..

It's a myth you're falling for.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I increasingly feel McDonnell is the most Prime Ministerial figure we have at the moment.

I agree, but possibly works better as a number 2. Just like some players lose it when made captain... a footy analogy, sorry if that's off topic here.

[wing commander]

  You cant it's that simple..There is no way business in this Country can afford to operate  a 4 day week,pay the amount of money to keep people at the same level of wages..Throw in a few new bank holidays and the added tax no doubt will come under Labour as well and expect them to be competitive with the rest of the world..High unemployment,high interest rates and soaring inflation would be the outcome of that plan... Like it is with past Labour goverments..

It's a myth you're falling for.

  Really??? Well I run my own business that employs 20 odd men..I would be delighted for you to explain the economics on how I am expected to pay for all these things,remain competitive with places like Poland and Romania etc etc...And still be able to sleep at night worrying how I'm going to pay for it...You are away with the fairy's you really are...

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Exactly though the devil will be in the detail of course but I'm in agreement with WC.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I increasingly feel McDonnell is the most Prime Ministerial figure we have at the moment.

I've thought that for quite a while.

Radical but hard headed and realistic.

[wing commander]

    realistic???? Already since his speech, every business organisation from the FSB to the CBI have said the 32 hour week he wants to implement are just totally unrealistic..I've just been chatting to the lads in the canteen at snap and even the labour lads are worried about it..
    I asked them can you do the same amount of productivity in 4,8hr shifts as you can in 5???? Nobody thought they could...I tell you what I would do right now..The few contracts I can get which are higher percentage profit ones I could service,however all those I take on currently with less than 10% profit margins which I use to keep staff in employment during slacker times between the higher rate ones, which contribute to the overheads will then be loss contracts..End result I wont need 20 men I will need 10..Thats just economics because once again we wont be playing on a level playing field with other countries...

[MachoMadness]

  You cant it's that simple..There is no way business in this Country can afford to operate  a 4 day week,pay the amount of money to keep people at the same level of wages..Throw in a few new bank holidays and the added tax no doubt will come under Labour as well and expect them to be competitive with the rest of the world..High unemployment,high interest rates and soaring inflation would be the outcome of that plan... Like it is with past Labour goverments..

It's a myth you're falling for.

  Really??? Well I run my own business that employs 20 odd men..I would be delighted for you to explain the economics on how I am expected to pay for all these things,remain competitive with places like Poland and Romania etc etc...And still be able to sleep at night worrying how I'm going to pay for it...You are away with the fairy's you really are...

It won't be a hard cap. If you and your staff are happy for things to stay the same, then you don't have to change them.

[bpoolrover]

So it’s poiness then as people could just do that now?

[wing commander]

  Exactly what a total waste of time it will never happen..Labour can count themselves lucky everybody in the media is talking about Thomas Cook today rather than ripping apart another shocking non thought out or costed policy...

[SydneyRover]

I would think if you went back to look people would have said the same thing about the 40 hour week

[bpoolrover]

Sydney maybe listen to people like wing c who has his own business? France tried it going to 35 hours and that was a flop 2

[Bristol Red Rover]

  You cant it's that simple..There is no way business in this Country can afford to operate  a 4 day week,pay the amount of money to keep people at the same level of wages..Throw in a few new bank holidays and the added tax no doubt will come under Labour as well and expect them to be competitive with the rest of the world..High unemployment,high interest rates and soaring inflation would be the outcome of that plan... Like it is with past Labour goverments..

It's a myth you're falling for.

  Really??? Well I run my own business that employs 20 odd men..I would be delighted for you to explain the economics on how I am expected to pay for all these things,remain competitive with places like Poland and Romania etc etc...And still be able to sleep at night worrying how I'm going to pay for it...You are away with the fairy's you really are...

The target was stated as within 10 years, nothing going to happen immediately. I'd guess the reduction would be in stages. I'm not sure how they'd manage the same wage thing in the reduction of basic hours. There's no doubt however that productivity in the time worked woud increase in most cases, maybe there's a reason it wouldn't in yours?

[Glyn_Wigley]

I would think if you went back to look people would have said the same thing about the 40 hour week

And the Minimum Wage.

[SydneyRover]

Sydney maybe listen to people like wing c who has his own business? France tried it going to 35 hours and that was a flop 2

Wing Commander is not the only person to own a business bp and I respect his comments, what I can't always get my head around is why someone that works in the hospital system? that would lose every time a tory government is elected appears to support them?

[wilts rover]

Sydney maybe listen to people like wing c who has his own business? France tried it going to 35 hours and that was a flop 2

Maybe it's WC who should listen to business leaders? A YouGov poll reckons...

— 64% of business managers back a four-day week
— Majority of Britons (63%) also back the idea
— But only 17% back it if it means being poorer
— 71% of Brits say it would make them happier

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1176117763624116224

[bpoolrover]

Wilts I’m surprised it’s not higher I don’t no anyone that wouldn’t want a 4 day week, does not mean it will work of course

[RedJ]

Some people have miserable home lives tbh, or are paid by the hour and think they'll only be losing out if it was to happen.

I think they did a trial in Finland or somewhere like that recently and they found that people were actually more productive with their time on the four days.