Roll up,roll up

[wing commander]

  For another labour giveaway.Corbyn is giving his magic money tree another shake and low and behold another £20 billion comes floating to the ground and we are all going to get free broadband...Seriously how desperate do you have to get for votes.

  This of course will be funded by Facebook and Amazon and tech companies.Yes I agree they do need to pay more tax but do people really think they will happily fund all of that without making the public pay by additional costs for it or moving elsewhere..Tech company's wont be doing any developing in the uk that's for sure..A madness plan along with the 4 day working week..

[SydneyRover]

This is just zuckerburg imagine what fb is worth, Google and all the rest

Zuckerberg took the company public in May 2012 with majority shares. His net worth is estimated to be $71.7 billion as of October 24, 2019, increasing over the past year with Facebook stock as a whole.

[dknward2]

Soon as I heard it was to be funded by tech companies I thought that's all them leaving the UK can't tax them if there not here.

[Donnywolf]

I liken the whole Election process to Mr Foggitts weather forecast - you are old enough to remember him I know

He used to predict the weather for a year in front and day by day. I am sure it was never that accurate but nobody seemed interested in reviewing it at the end of a year

Instead they let him loose with his following years predictions

Politicians of all colours and all levels of PM Cabinet MP etc (and I exclude almost nobody) will indeed have as you have given an example of above will be pouring out all the stuff they are promising each it seems what the people want to hear

20bn for the NHS says Party A
26bn for the NHS says Party B

...and who knows 30 bn says Party A because we have had another look at  this and can afford to go higher

.... and then more and more promises on Broadbannd Electric Cars the non exporting of live animals etc etc etc

We all know they will break them ultimately and someone should be there to make them accountable. Seriously are the Welsh Scottish and Irish Farmers and lots in England going to give up exporting live animals and who is going to tell them

Oh we have won the election - listened to the reasoned views of x,y and z and we are happy to allow the trde to continue - and that will happen to almost every single bit of every promise made by any of the Parties

I dont trust them , have lost faith in any of them. To me they are a busted flush

 

[SydneyRover]

Soon as I heard it was to be funded by tech companies I thought that's all them leaving the UK can't tax them if there not here.

Yep don't even try, just what fb Google and all the rest want to hear, if these tech companies paid there fair share of taxes the government could afford to pay for free internet for everyone, hey that's a good idea?

[bpoolrover]

If the tories had come up with this Sydney you would have called it a gimmick no? Would be better off saying they will knock 500 pounds off peoples heating bills rather than offer free broadband

[SydneyRover]

Apple. Market value: $1.16 trillion USD. ...
Samsung. Market value: 347.78 trillion KRW ($298.68 billion USD) ...
Microsoft. Market value: $1.10 trillion USD. ...
Alphabet. Market value: $878.48 billion USD. ...
Intel. Market value: $245.82 billion USD. ...
IBM. Market value: $120.03 billion USD. ...
fb .................. etc

[Wild Rover]

Under EU laws ( or regulations ) whichever suits, Labour cannot nationalise anything while UK is in EU membership. Nationalisation does away with open competition. So Labour must be LEAVING EU in order to nationalise.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

That is not quite true, they can do but only if it's under commercial terms.

The real issue is the true cost of this is likely to be far in excess of what they say.

A better option is probably to keep it private but invest in to it under proper terms with regulation. But that's not labour's way is it?

For investors big and small there is concern over these privatisation plans undoubtedly.

[SydneyRover]

Probably been scared off by the rail financial scandals there bfyp, that's the tory way, privatize and subsidise.

[bpoolrover]

Sydney I get there worth a lot but that’s not the point, my next door neighbour has more money than me should he give me half his money so we’re equal? If/when they reduce investment etc. In the U.K. and jobs go then what?

[SydneyRover]

Absolutely right and great news bp, can your neighbour pay for the broadband rollout 

[BillyStubbsTears]

I don't see your logic BFYP.

Broadband in the UK has been a spectacular market failure.

We have poor services because private companies haven't invested in infrastructure.

We have expensive services, with customers unfairly tied into having landlines that never get used.

We have poor geographical coverage, because companies don't see themselves getting commercial reward for the investment.

The market has failed utterly here.

And you're saying the solution is to give tax payers' money to the companies who have failed us?

Why should we do that, rather than have the state run the services itself?

 

[Filo]

I don't see your logic BFYP.

Broadband in the UK has been a spectacular market failure.

We have poor services because private companies haven't invested in infrastructure.

We have expensive services, with customers unfairly tied into having landlines that never get used.

We have poor geographical coverage, because companies don't see themselves getting commercial reward for the investment.

The market has failed utterly here.

And you're saying the solution is to give tax payers' money to the companies who have failed us?

Why should we do that, rather than have the state run the services itself?

 

The reason it has failed is the private companies put profit before infrastructure, I only get 12mb on fibre because the cables from the cabinet are old aluminium cables, openreach refuse to replace them for copper

[SydneyRover]

Fibre to the premises is best

[BillyStubbsTears]

Precisely Filo.

And here's the issue.

The broadband companies are right not to invest in that extra infrastructure. Because it won't make THEM any money. And their sole purpose (legally) is to make money for their shareholders.

So, because of that, the country as a whole suffers from a shit service.

It's a classic market failure. So we need a solution outside the auspices of the usual market. i.e. Govt takes over.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Yes somewhat ironic that we have a private company with a monopoly. Perhaps the answer is allowing or forcing others to chip in, his creating more competition. Just a thought.....

I mean we are of course sure the government will run it better as obviously happened in the past.....

[SydneyRover]

Hearing all this is like being in bizarro world, labor here wanted to and started to build a total Fibre to the premises (when they were last in power)pretty expensive and got slammed by the coalition and the Murdoch press.

In power the coalition changed it all it a mix of Fibre to the curb, used old cable TV lines, satellite, bean tins and string, it's a total cock up and is costing way more and taking longer, we have to changed over next month to an inferior service costing 20% more, conservative, the economic managers.

[Filo]

Fibre to the premises is best

I wish

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Broadband might be more useful to more people and businesses than HS2 however the costs for either or both suggests the money should be spent elsewhere on a variety of other essential things.

[Wild Rover]

That is not quite true, they can do but only if it's under commercial terms.

The real issue is the true cost of this is likely to be far in excess of what they say.

A better option is probably to keep it private but invest in to it under proper terms with regulation. But that's not labour's way is it?

For investors big and small there is concern over these privatisation plans undoubtedly.

Think I am right BFYP.
See this EU site.

https://ec.europa.eu/competition/consumers/government_aid_en.html

[redarmy82]

This is laughable. It will never happen, even if Labour get into power.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I mean we are of course sure the government will run it better as obviously happened in the past.....

*cough* East Coast Main Line, *cough*.

[wing commander]

I'm sure if Labour came up with a policy of buying everybody a curry once a week some people on here would find a way to kid people it was a good idea..lol

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wing Co
Why not address the pros and cons ofwhat they are actually proposing,.

[wing commander]

   Well one con straight away is that BT have said this morning that the cost of doing that would be more than double what Labour claim,so theres another 20 billion minimum that needs shaking off that magic tree....

[Wild Rover]

BST. They are proposing to take into public ownership by giving "Bonds" to shareholders, in exchange for shares, priced well below market value ( at a price decided by parliament) . The running costs to be set at 10% of the big boys turnover globally ( not profit and not even UK but Globally ) many have looked at taxing these multi nationals "Fairly" as Labour say, but  if there is a way no one has ever found it.

Do you not think if Labour do tax them in the way the party says, the companies will stay in UK, when most if not all have "Branches" in Irish Republic.

NO they will up sticks and move elsewhere and increase unemployed register.

So there are more cons than pros by the look of it.

[wing commander]

BT

The company has disputed the cost of rolling out fibre broadband to every home and business, saying it would cost closer to £40bn than £20bn.

The BBC's business editor, Simon Jack, said Labour's proposal had caught BT "off-guard", as Mr McDonnell had said in July that he had no plans to nationalise the telecoms giant.

Following Labour's announcement, BT's share price initially fell by 3% before recovering slightly.

Julian David, chief executive of TechUK, which represents many UK tech firms, said: "These proposals would be a disaster for the telecoms sector and the customers that it serves.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

That is not quite true, they can do but only if it's under commercial terms.

The real issue is the true cost of this is likely to be far in excess of what they say.

A better option is probably to keep it private but invest in to it under proper terms with regulation. But that's not labour's way is it?

For investors big and small there is concern over these privatisation plans undoubtedly.

Think I am right BFYP.
See this EU site.

https://ec.europa.eu/competition/consumers/government_aid_en.html

Yes hence my point on commercial terms etc, it can't distort competition.  It was one of the sticking points in my previous company (it did amuse many of us sat in the business laughing at politicians who had zero idea on how that would work).  But it doesn't mean it cannot be done.  I don't know if in this case it would be allowed, but I'd assume labour checked that.

On a side note, how much do we all pay for our broadband?  It's not a deadly cost and would 5g replace it anyway (I have seen it mooted).  It just seems a disproportionate cost versus alternatives.

[Wild Rover]

My BB is Fibre ( well supposedly ) I pay TT £22.00 per month, and is unlimited,which includes all calls made from landline, and obviously line rental.