Bolton - The game goes ahead

[Frankie Rennie]

Donny, the difference was that we had a potential owner who had been certified fit and proper by the EFL, had proven money in place to buy the club, plus further finance to run the club for remainder of the season. Bury had none of this and sadly were forced to leave the league.

It was only through the fortitude of our new owners that they continued to give assurances to the EFL that they would buy the club despite the disruptive actions of our previous owner, that convinced the EFL to continue.

The Doncaster game is a completely separate issue. We should have advised both Doncaster and the EFL of the decision to cancel much earlier from which I believe the EFL would have agreed to the postponement which would have resulted in the same situation regarding the team make up. Yes we should be punished for not advising early enough but surely not for applying the same rules the EFL themselves applied to us against Brentford.

Why should it not be the same as Brentford?  You were allowed to start the season and you failed to fulfil your obligation of playing a scheduled fixture. Not only that you didn’t ask permission from the EFL and you didn’t even have the decency to inform Doncaster Rovers.
Please explain Frankie Rennie.

Just like to say it’s good to get a Bolton fan on here even if we can’t agree with what your saying.

And yes most sensible DRFC supporters sympathise with the plight your club was in, under the ownership of Anderson. We know what it is like to have a rogue owner as we had one in the 90’s who almost completely destroyed our club. Thanks to him we lost our league status and without the intervention of John Ryan we may not have had a club at all, or at best we might have ended up in the Northern Premier league.

Campbell, I’ve said quite clearly in here that the club, be that Parkinson or the Administrator, were wrong in what they did and we have to be punished. Personally I’d have had no problem with you getting the 3 points and a 1-0 win the same as Brentford but I think that would have opened the EFL liable to action by other Div1 clubs. The EFL outsourced to an independent committee and like the decision or not that should stand. I know you are miffed because you didn’t get chance to play our youth team and possibly get a big win but surely that’s actually being selfish. In reality the only way to make things absolutely fair is for the EFL to allow us to replay all the early games where teams gained from playing us but that’s hardly likely. Maybe like with Bury they should have not allowed us to start the season and postponed the games until the takeover was completed but that’s just “should have, might have, and didn’t happen. I don’t think the appeal will be successful so I think you need to accept it and hope you still win the game when we play.

Frankie Rennie it’s Campsall not Campbell. Not that it’s important.

What is important is you are missing the point we are all trying to make, which is your club unilaterally cancelled not postponed the match.
The circumstances are irrelevant. I didn’t care if your team on 20/08/19 was made up of 11 18 year olds or it contained the 11 best players in League 1 it is irrelevant.

If you cancel a game without permission 28 hrs before kick off ( the hrs don’t matter ) then you forfeit the game. End of.  If a club can decide when it wishes to play and not when it is supposed to play we are going to get total chaos.
If your club does not get at least a 3 point deduction and a forfeit of the game, what is going to stop any club doing what yours did when they have a few injuries and would rather not play.

If you can’t see that the current decision will open up a massive can of worms going forward then quite frankly i despair.
At least the EFL can see the problem by lodging an appeal. Who they are appealing to though I don’t know.

What the EFL should have done is make the judgement themselves, why they went to a so called independent commission i don’t know. It’s back fired badly because the decision shows total incompetence and a complete lack of foresight.

Sorry Campsall, I think it was autocorrect!!

I agree with you, our club irrespective of who was responsible, were wrong to call off the game and should be punished, I have no question about that but I’m not sure that just giving you the 3 points works for the EFL. They have to consider the effect on other clubs who would be affected. In fairness you have been inconvenienced rather than damaged by it so there’s no reason the game shouldn’t be rearranged. The fact our team is now different is actually irrelevant to everybody else as teams all change during the season with 2 transfer windows.

I think it’s important that you guys understand that most Wanderers fans accept we were wrong and that we should be punished. This was just the last piece of mismanagement by previous owners, we accept what happened was wrong but in reality calling off the game for you was no different than for bad weather or any other reason so why you think you should have the points I’m afraid isn’t logical or fair to other teams who must all play us. If you talk about fairness, shouldn’t we be able to play our earlier games again? Where does fairness end?

An independent body has looked at all the evidence and made a judgement and that should be that as they have the facts which we don’t. However it would have gone there would have been dissatisfaction so to be honest it should just be left and Rovers fans possibly allowed free access when the game is replayed. Either way it’s not the fans fault and hopefully will not cause problems in future games between us.

[IDM]

We have had a weather postponement since, and one for international call ups.  Yes they are frustrating too,  but then again they were called off within the rules.

My opinion - and that is all it is - would be the same had you forfeited against a potential play off rival, say Peterborough for example.

If then Posh kept us in 7th place at the end of the season by less than those 3 points, so be it.  We would have had 43 other fixtures to fight for points.  1/44 games doesn’t define a season.

I would extrapolate that argument to other clubs looking at Doncaster.

It sets a dangerous precedent not to give a default win to the other side.  It happens in other levels of football and in the cups.  It is a shocking coincidence of fate that the outcome when this happens in the EFL hadn’t been defined.

[Frankie Rennie]

I think you’re making my point for me IDM, there’s no question Peterborough or any other club missing out on a top six place to you would certainly claim foul and quite rightly. I do agree that there should be a set penalty for something like this which would have taken any confusion out of it. Like other Wanderers fans have said, I wouldn’t personally have an issue with awarding you the points and conceding the game but there can be no argument that it is unfair to other clubs competing and having to play us.

[IDM]

No but my point is that it shouldn’t be seen as unfair to other clubs, as they also have another 43 games - 1/44 for us doesn’t define their seasons either..

I get that other clubs would oppose this as they are always likely to act on their own interests, but you know very well that if they were on the receiving end, they would insist on getting the points too.

[Frankie Rennie]

Totally agree IDM but surely to ensure that if the same thing happens again and a club calls off a game without permission the 72 clubs en bloc or at least by majority, need to agree that as a rule. At the moment there is just chaos as no proper procedure is in place, which seems quite strange given the possibility of it happening again and certainly going forward with so many clubs in financial difficulty. Like I say, nobody is going to be happy with any outcome on this so hopefully the EFL will consider a definitive penalty.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I don't know about everyone else, but before this episode happened, if my club or any other club for that matter, took it upon themselves to pull out of a fixture, I would expect the game to be forfeited.

I can't imagine any circumstances why my club would do that though.

It's just seems common sense to me.

[drfchound]

I think you’re making my point for me IDM, there’s no question Peterborough or any other club missing out on a top six place to you would certainly claim foul and quite rightly. I do agree that there should be a set penalty for something like this which would have taken any confusion out of it. Like other Wanderers fans have said, I wouldn’t personally have an issue with awarding you the points and conceding the game but there can be no argument that it is unfair to other clubs competing and having to play us.

On the flip side though, what if Bolton were to beat us if the fixture were to go ahead and that meant that they avoided relegation at the expense of someone else.
The fact that they had the chance to play for the three points would then have disadvantaged another club.
It works both ways.
I would imagine that teams near the bottom of L1 will be hoping that Bolton do also get another points deduction which will make those lower clubs have one less relegation place to worry about.

[karlos]

I think the only fair way to resolve this is for us to play the game however we should only play the game against Bolton with players they had registered at the time of the original game.

[drfchound]

I think the only fair way to resolve this is for us to play the game however we should only play the game against Bolton with players they had registered at the time of the original game.

I do think that this is the most unlikely outcome.

[ravenrover]

Will be interesting end of season if 2 teams tie on points for 2nd place and goal difference comes into it and one of the teams had the fortune of playing Boltons kids with a 5-0 win, the other team playing them later in the season and say winning only 1-0.
Lawyers rubbing their hands together perhaps

[Dutch Uncle]

Whichever way we look at it, and whatever actions are taken from here on, the integrity of league one this season is compromised, and there will be winners and losers. The EFL has created a mess of Northern Ireland post-Brexit border proportions.

The most important thing is to fix the rules so that such a mess can't happen again in future seasons.

The current penalty palpably does not do that. A fixed rule for future that 'cancel = forfeit' plus discretionary measures depending on circumstances/mitigation would go a long way towards clarity and fairness IMHO. Minimum consequences are known beforehand and the system would not be open to potential future abuse.

[Frankie Rennie]

Well sa

Whichever way we look at it, and whatever actions are taken from here on, the integrity of league one this season is compromised, and there will be winners and losers. The EFL has created a mess of Northern Ireland post-Brexit border proportions.

The most important thing is to fix the rules so that such a mess can't happen again in future seasons.

The current penalty palpably does not do that. A fixed rule for future that 'cancel = forfeit' plus discretionary measures depending on circumstances/mitigation would go a long way towards clarity and fairness IMHO. Minimum consequences are known beforehand and the system would not be open to potential future abuse.

Well said Uncle, my thoughts exactly. The EFL have caused this themselves and need to create a definitive rule for this going forward.

[IDM]

I couldn’t agree more DU..

[Filo]

Donny, the difference was that we had a potential owner who had been certified fit and proper by the EFL, had proven money in place to buy the club, plus further finance to run the club for remainder of the season. Bury had none of this and sadly were forced to leave the league.

It was only through the fortitude of our new owners that they continued to give assurances to the EFL that they would buy the club despite the disruptive actions of our previous owner, that convinced the EFL to continue.

The Doncaster game is a completely separate issue. We should have advised both Doncaster and the EFL of the decision to cancel much earlier from which I believe the EFL would have agreed to the postponement which would have resulted in the same situation regarding the team make up. Yes we should be punished for not advising early enough but surely not for applying the same rules the EFL themselves applied to us against Brentford.

Why should it not be the same as Brentford?  You were allowed to start the season and you failed to fulfil your obligation of playing a scheduled fixture. Not only that you didn’t ask permission from the EFL and you didn’t even have the decency to inform Doncaster Rovers.
Please explain Frankie Rennie.

Just like to say it’s good to get a Bolton fan on here even if we can’t agree with what your saying.

And yes most sensible DRFC supporters sympathise with the plight your club was in, under the ownership of Anderson. We know what it is like to have a rogue owner as we had one in the 90’s who almost completely destroyed our club. Thanks to him we lost our league status and without the intervention of John Ryan we may not have had a club at all, or at best we might have ended up in the Northern Premier league.

Campbell, I’ve said quite clearly in here that the club, be that Parkinson or the Administrator, were wrong in what they did and we have to be punished. Personally I’d have had no problem with you getting the 3 points and a 1-0 win the same as Brentford but I think that would have opened the EFL liable to action by other Div1 clubs. The EFL outsourced to an independent committee and like the decision or not that should stand. I know you are miffed because you didn’t get chance to play our youth team and possibly get a big win but surely that’s actually being selfish. In reality the only way to make things absolutely fair is for the EFL to allow us to replay all the early games where teams gained from playing us but that’s hardly likely. Maybe like with Bury they should have not allowed us to start the season and postponed the games until the takeover was completed but that’s just “should have, might have, and didn’t happen. I don’t think the appeal will be successful so I think you need to accept it and hope you still win the game when we play.

Frankie Rennie it’s Campsall not Campbell. Not that it’s important.

What is important is you are missing the point we are all trying to make, which is your club unilaterally cancelled not postponed the match.
The circumstances are irrelevant. I didn’t care if your team on 20/08/19 was made up of 11 18 year olds or it contained the 11 best players in League 1 it is irrelevant.

If you cancel a game without permission 28 hrs before kick off ( the hrs don’t matter ) then you forfeit the game. End of.  If a club can decide when it wishes to play and not when it is supposed to play we are going to get total chaos.
If your club does not get at least a 3 point deduction and a forfeit of the game, what is going to stop any club doing what yours did when they have a few injuries and would rather not play.

If you can’t see that the current decision will open up a massive can of worms going forward then quite frankly i despair.
At least the EFL can see the problem by lodging an appeal. Who they are appealing to though I don’t know.

What the EFL should have done is make the judgement themselves, why they went to a so called independent commission i don’t know. It’s back fired badly because the decision shows total incompetence and a complete lack of foresight.

Sorry Campsall, I think it was autocorrect!!

I agree with you, our club irrespective of who was responsible, were wrong to call off the game and should be punished, I have no question about that but I’m not sure that just giving you the 3 points works for the EFL. They have to consider the effect on other clubs who would be affected. In fairness you have been inconvenienced rather than damaged by it so there’s no reason the game shouldn’t be rearranged. The fact our team is now different is actually irrelevant to everybody else as teams all change during the season with 2 transfer windows.

I think it’s important that you guys understand that most Wanderers fans accept we were wrong and that we should be punished. This was just the last piece of mismanagement by previous owners, we accept what happened was wrong but in reality calling off the game for you was no different than for bad weather or any other reason so why you think you should have the points I’m afraid isn’t logical or fair to other teams who must all play us. If you talk about fairness, shouldn’t we be able to play our earlier games again? Where does fairness end?

An independent body has looked at all the evidence and made a judgement and that should be that as they have the facts which we don’t. However it would have gone there would have been dissatisfaction so to be honest it should just be left and Rovers fans possibly allowed free access when the game is replayed. Either way it’s not the fans fault and hopefully will not cause problems in future games between us.

Ofcourse it’s different to games being postponed due to bad weather, you are talking ridiculous!

[Frankie Rennie]

Why?

[rover-n-out]

What if the EFL in collusion with whoever oversees their appeal, knowingly lose that appeal. They can then say to us all "Sorry, but we did try to appeal the lenient punishment to BWFC" thereby coming out of this mess relatively unscathed. just saying like!!

[DonnyBazR0ver]

What if the EFL in collusion with whoever oversees their appeal, knowingly lose that appeal. They can then say to us all "Sorry, but we did try to appeal the lenient punishment to BWFC" thereby coming out of this mess relatively unscathed. just saying like!!

In that instance they are going to be getting even more criticism than they are already set to get anyway.

[andysly]

Bolton fans gloating on their board these past few days, talking about play-offs, top half finish, out of bottom 3 for Christmas......think on boys...1-4 at Accrington 

[andysly]

It gets better at Accy

[drfchound]

They will try to get next weeks game called off now.

[firestarter]

Love a good 7-1 me 😂

[Frankie Rennie]

What do they say about he who laughs last? Be careful because we might get Ronaldo and Harry Kane in the window!! 😄 Bet you’re not bothered about not facing our kids now are you? Anyway, we only lost by 5 more than you today.

[andysly]

Just a response to the gloating halfwits on your site, you know the ones laughing at the flood situation.

[albie]

Article on 200% about the Bolton fandango:
http://twohundredpercent.net/bolton-wanderers-good-governance/

Good governance eh......it would be nice.

[Reesielad]

What do they say about he who laughs last? Be careful because we might get Ronaldo and Harry Kane in the window!! Bet you’re not bothered about not facing our kids now are you? Anyway, we only lost by 5 more than you today.

Difference being we got beat by a 90th minute penalty against top of the league.
You were completely destroyed by Accrington Stanley, yes, Accrington Stanley. Must be a hard pill to swallow for the majority of your fan base after some of the stuff I’ve seen online.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Al4475]

One of the really sad things with this (and I apologise if it's been said further up the thread) is the difference in outcome for bury and bolton. In hindsight, bury could've said, 'yeah we can fulfill our fixtures' and subsequently call off every game due to 'welfare of kids' and played em later in the season. I know it ain't so black and white but it's a bloody dangerous precedent!

[Donnybob]

Am I the only person in the world who reads the EFL punishment of Bolton differently.

Were there not two cancelled matches?

Did each receive separate punishments, part suspended?

Then why, after Bolton cancelled the second game, are they not automatically in breach of the first suspended punishment?

And if they were guilty on both occasions, in other words serial offenders repeatedly failing to follow EFL procedures, were they not hit with a much more severe punishment for the second offense?

The offences might well have been months apart looking at the calendar but in reality one offence was committed on the final day of last season, the next one barely 3 weeks into a new season, equivalent to twice in a month.

Initially I thought Bolton were just a tin pot outfit who'd gambled big on getting EPL fortunes and come unstuck (just like others before them have done) but I'm slowly coming to dislike the club, its fans and the whole Billy big b*llocks attitude not to mention playing on the old poor us, we deserve special treatment grovelling shite at the same time.

To tell the truth I wouldn't be bothered if the game was NOT rearranged and we were robbed of the potential 3 points providing they were docked additional points.

That's how their attitude has coloured my judgement. They've stained their club's reputation.

As it is stands tonight they need at least 49 points from the next 29 games which is play-off form. Losing 7-1 at Accrington suggests that is (hopefully) unlikely.

As for Hill's quote about 'the impossible dream...' Is he taking the piss? We ain't the bad guys here. Time Bolton woke up to that fact.

[PDX_Rover]

I don't know about everyone else, but before this episode happened, if my club or any other club for that matter, took it upon themselves to pull out of a fixture, I would expect the game to be forfeited.

I can't imagine any circumstances why my club would do that though.

It's just seems common sense to me.

And that’s the entire case right there. It doesn’t matter who it is. If you fail to fulfill an obligation, you give up any rights to it.

[firestarter]

Had a quick look at Bolton forum and looks like they were fighting amongst themselves today. A lovely quote from one calling Bolton fans delinquents .. at least he’s honest 😂. I can stomach a very narrow 1-0 after their result today 👍

[Frankie Rennie]

Am I the only person in the world who reads the EFL punishment of Bolton differently.

Were there not two cancelled matches?

Did each receive separate punishments, part suspended?

Then why, after Bolton cancelled the second game, are they not automatically in breach of the first suspended punishment?

And if they were guilty on both occasions, in other words serial offenders repeatedly failing to follow EFL procedures, were they not hit with a much more severe punishment for the second offense?

The offences might well have been months apart looking at the calendar but in reality one offence was committed on the final day of last season, the next one barely 3 weeks into a new season, equivalent to twice in a month.

Initially I thought Bolton were just a tin pot outfit who'd gambled big on getting EPL fortunes and come unstuck (just like others before them have done) but I'm slowly coming to dislike the club, its fans and the whole Billy big b*llocks attitude not to mention playing on the old poor us, we deserve special treatment grovelling shite at the same time.

To tell the truth I wouldn't be bothered if the game was NOT rearranged and we were robbed of the potential 3 points providing they were docked additional points.

That's how their attitude has coloured my judgement. They've stained their club's reputation.

As it is stands tonight they need at least 49 points from the next 29 games which is play-off form. Losing 7-1 at Accrington suggests that is (hopefully) unlikely.

As for Hill's quote about 'the impossible dream...' Is he taking the piss? We ain't the bad guys here. Time Bolton woke up to that fact.

Donnybob just to correct you but Bolton didn’t cancel the Brentford game the EFL did. Our first team refused en bloc to play leaving only our youth team to step in. Because they had already played on the Thursday the EFL refused permission and cancelled the game. Because there was no further time to play the game the 3 points and a 1-0 win were awarded to Brentford.

This was what prompted Phil Parkinson to call off our game using the same reasoning that the EFL had themselves regarding our young players.

We aren’t Billy Big B—-ocks at all but we are the 12th placed team in the list of clubs with the most years in the English top division. You may not like us and yes we do have some halfwit fans just like every club, including yours does. Please don’t class us all the same, most of us accept the rules and that includes accepting you deserve the points from our cancelled game but of course that’s up to our beloved EFL. Irrespective of history we are both fans of proud League 1 clubs and who knows, there may be two divisions between us next year!!