Bolton - The game goes ahead

[DonnyBazR0ver]

There will be plenty of external pressure on Rovers to appeal this, to strike down what is a ridiculous precedent. See the Peterborough Chairman has been making this point tonight.

Bolton cancelled the game unilaterally because they didn’t fancy playing it. Any club in future can seek to do this now and will receive nothing - a few quid fine and a suspended ie non-enforced points penalty. There is literally no disincentive for a club to seek to do this in future - nothing.

We don't always see eye to eye with Anthony but on this, along with any other fair minded club and fan across the land can see the injustice in this.

In addition, if we were to be cynical, then you could say the EFL and the FA have given Bolton a helping hand beyond what they were entitled to in terms of their financial conduct and their overall conduct, given the strick application of sanctions handed out to other clubs and more recently Bury.

I can see other chairman/owners and managers having their say on this matter and the EFLs overall competence.

[Copps is Magic]

See Liam Hoden's tweets.

He says the EFL board were unanimously convinced the game should be replayed. Its utterly pointless appealing.

The ONLY option the club has is legal action against the EFL. If they don't want to do that, everyone should get over this very quickly because its done.

The appeal goes to the governing body , the FA who review the EFL decision. I think an appeal to FA will be successful as the EFL have not applied their own rules correctly . So it becomes a technical point not an opinion .

Well, for whats its worth (not much) I've just spent 10 minutes googling and I don't interpret it like that. Appeals to the EFL go to independently appointed arbitration or committees, that is even if there is a right to appeal.

I would be happy if I am wrong.

[dknward2]

Give them no tickets on police advice of trouble from their supporters home fans only

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

My take is slightly different. We are all football fans because we like to watch football games, thus surely we actually want to watch a game?

However, there is a big question of fairness and that side is totally wrong.  They should have found a way to mean there is no advantage or as little advantage as possible to Bolton. For me that should mean playing it with only thr players available that night.  That would have suited everyone I'd have thought.

But all it means is Rovers lose out through no fault of our own, particularly given our fixture build up.  We should just say we are too tired repeatedly.

[drfchound]

There will be plenty of external pressure on Rovers to appeal this, to strike down what is a ridiculous precedent. See the Peterborough Chairman has been making this point tonight.

Bolton cancelled the game unilaterally because they didn’t fancy playing it. Any club in future can seek to do this now and will receive nothing - a few quid fine and a suspended ie non-enforced points penalty. There is literally no disincentive for a club to seek to do this in future - nothing.

We don't always see eye to eye with Anthony but on this, along with any other fair minded club and fan across the land can see the injustice in this.

In addition, if we were to be cynical, then you could say the EFL and the FA have given Bolton a helping hand beyond what they were entitled to in terms of their financial conduct and their overall conduct, given the strick application of sanctions handed out to other clubs and more recently Bury.

I can see other chairman/owners and managers having their say on this matter and the EFLs overall competence.

While I agree with you DBR, I don’t really see other clubs coming out in support of us.
If the decision was overturned (it won’t be), why would other clubs want us to be given three points.
If it had happened today we would have moved up to eight place which would disadvantage four clubs straight away.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

See Liam Hoden's tweets.

He says the EFL board were unanimously convinced the game should be replayed. Its utterly pointless appealing.

The ONLY option the club has is legal action against the EFL. If they don't want to do that, everyone should get over this very quickly because its done.

The appeal goes to the governing body , the FA who review the EFL decision. I think an appeal to FA will be successful as the EFL have not applied their own rules correctly . So it becomes a technical point not an opinion .

Well, for whats its worth (not much) I've just spent 10 minutes googling and I don't interpret it like that. Appeals to the EFL go to independently appointed arbitration or committees, that is even if there is a right to appeal.

I would be happy if I am wrong.

The rules confirm them make up of an Independant Tribunal. There also might be support from other clubs on this.

We know that Terry Bramall is a smart cookie and he hates injustice. I suspect he won't like this at all, so I wonder what his view is.

Another avenue may be UEFA.

[adamtherover]

Our home game with them is the 2nd of February, any frost or ice I would not postpone the game until very late that night.

Unfortunately, we can't afford any more postponements of any kind Brian. We've already got 3 to sort out, and we're still in 2 cups, with potential replays; then there's the weather.

We could end up playing 2 matches a week over a long period; something no manager wants.

At risk of repeating myself again, there was 17 free Tuesdays till the end of the season this week.  So we need to allocate 3 of those, so 14 left, or 3 and a half months of no midweek games?  Still think we cant accommodate any more games? 

[DonnyBazR0ver]

There will be plenty of external pressure on Rovers to appeal this, to strike down what is a ridiculous precedent. See the Peterborough Chairman has been making this point tonight.

Bolton cancelled the game unilaterally because they didn’t fancy playing it. Any club in future can seek to do this now and will receive nothing - a few quid fine and a suspended ie non-enforced points penalty. There is literally no disincentive for a club to seek to do this in future - nothing.

We don't always see eye to eye with Anthony but on this, along with any other fair minded club and fan across the land can see the injustice in this.

In addition, if we were to be cynical, then you could say the EFL and the FA have given Bolton a helping hand beyond what they were entitled to in terms of their financial conduct and their overall conduct, given the strick application of sanctions handed out to other clubs and more recently Bury.

I can see other chairman/owners and managers having their say on this matter and the EFLs overall competence.

While I agree with you DBR, I don’t really see other clubs coming out in support of us.
If the decision was overturned (it won’t be), why would other clubs want us to be given three points.
If it had happened today we would have moved up to eight place which would disadvantage four clubs straight away.

Not specifically supporting us but against the dangerous precedent that's been set and the real injustice against innocent clubs.

[idler]

So we allocate a free date and in the meantime accrue injuries and suspensions for a game that should have been played months ago.
Yes that sounds about right to all fair minded supporters.

[JonWallsend]

Never expected us to be awarded the game and think it is perfectly reasonable and sensible to expect us to fulfil the fixture. However, really surprised there has not been a points deduction( I realise there is a suspended 5 point penalty) for Bolton.

“Perfectly reasonable and sensible to expect us to fulfil the fixture”
Are you serious?
Who are you, the Bolton Chief Executive. Are you being serious or is that a wind up?

No I am being serious. Looking ahead to this year's fixture, last game of the season, Rotherham already in play offs decide to cancel their game against Sunderland because they want everyone fully rested and can't risk their youngsters. Sunderland are awarded the game and leapfrog Rovers on goal difference, who unfortunately miss out on the play offs following a defeat at Blackpool.

 That is why you just can't give 3 points to teams. I'm sure you'd be insisting the game was played.  However, where the EFL have made a monumental blunder, and left themselves open to all kinds of  repercussions should Bolton stop up by virtue of any points accrued from the replayed game, is by not hitting them hard with an immediate and punitive points deduction.

As you see Campsall, not the opinions of the Bolton Chief Executive but reasoned viewpoint from a lifelong Rovers fan. They needed to be punished and they haven't been. The way they went about unileterally calling the game off was a disgrace but I don't see how us not playing them benefits anyone

[silent majority]

I think a lot of DRFC fans have a right to be annoyed with this, but we are seeing the picture out of focus.

This is not the EFL enforcing fines and possible points deductions, this is the Independent Panel and their conclusion.

The EFL have not yet endorsed this and the statements from the EFL clearly point out that it's not them.

This is not over yet.

 

[Campsall rover]

Never expected us to be awarded the game and think it is perfectly reasonable and sensible to expect us to fulfil the fixture. However, really surprised there has not been a points deduction( I realise there is a suspended 5 point penalty) for Bolton.

“Perfectly reasonable and sensible to expect us to fulfil the fixture”
Are you serious?
Who are you, the Bolton Chief Executive. Are you being serious or is that a wind up?

No I am being serious. Looking ahead to this year's fixture, last game of the season, Rotherham already in play offs decide to cancel their game against Sunderland because they want everyone fully rested and can't risk their youngsters. Sunderland are awarded the game and leapfrog Rovers on goal difference, who unfortunately miss out on the play offs following a defeat at Blackpool.

 That is why you just can't give 3 points to teams. I'm sure you'd be insisting the game was played.  However, where the EFL have made a monumental blunder, and left themselves open to all kinds of  repercussions should Bolton stop up by virtue of any points accrued from the replayed game, is by not hitting them hard with an immediate and punitive points deduction.

As you see Campsall, not the opinions of the Bolton Chief Executive but reasoned viewpoint from a lifelong Rovers fan. They needed to be punished and they haven't been. The way they went about unileterally calling the game off was a disgrace but I don't see how us not playing them benefits anyone

Yes i  agree with you they of course should have had a further points deduction. Without that punishment there is no deterrent to other clubs doing the same. But we should not have to play a match that they unilaterally cancelled. We should have been awarded the 3 points. Surely you must agree with that. Yes/No?

[drfchound]

I think a lot of DRFC fans have a right to be annoyed with this, but we are seeing the picture out of focus.

This is not the EFL enforcing fines and possible points deductions, this is the Independent Panel and their conclusion.

The EFL have not yet endorsed this and the statements from the EFL clearly point out that it's not them.

This is not over yet.

 

Martin, do you think that the EFL will endorse it?

[silent majority]

I think a lot of DRFC fans have a right to be annoyed with this, but we are seeing the picture out of focus.

This is not the EFL enforcing fines and possible points deductions, this is the Independent Panel and their conclusion.

The EFL have not yet endorsed this and the statements from the EFL clearly point out that it's not them.

This is not over yet.

 

Martin, do you think that the EFL will endorse it?

They might not.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I can see your reasoning but say Rotherham were in that predicament and they wanted to give themselves an advantage, what would deter them from postponing the game, or any game in the run in. They would be set to gain more than the fine and a suspended points deduction if they could force a game to be played later.

[silent majority]

I can see your reasoning but say Rotherham were in that predicament and they wanted to give themselves an advantage, what would deter them from postponing the game, or any game in the run in. They would be set to gain more than the fine and a suspended points deduction if they could force a game to be played later.

I think the EFL are very aware of the dangers this decision could bring forth in the future.

It's not done yet.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I think a lot of DRFC fans have a right to be annoyed with this, but we are seeing the picture out of focus.

This is not the EFL enforcing fines and possible points deductions, this is the Independent Panel and their conclusion.

The EFL have not yet endorsed this and the statements from the EFL clearly point out that it's not them.

This is not over yet.

 

So glad to hear that S_M.

[Alan Southstand]

Hasn’t there already been an official statement from the EFL?

An independent Disciplinary Commission, appointed under EFL Regulations, has ruled that Bolton Wanderers will be handed a sanction of five points, suspended for 18 months, and a financial penalty as a result of being deemed guilty of breaching EFL Regulations in failing to meet its fixture obligations.

The Commission’s findings follow the consideration of a series of charges in relation to Regulation 31 and the non-fulfilment of two fixtures over the course of two seasons with the first in reference to the Club’s failure to meet its requirements for the scheduled 2018/19 Championship fixture with Brentford, while further charges were issued in September 2019, after the Club failed to fulfil its League One fixture against Doncaster Rovers on Tuesday 20 August 2019.

At a hearing on Thursday 14 November 2019, the Club pleaded guilty to the charges and, after hearing representations from both parties, the independent panel has ruled that Bolton Wanderers will be subject to a two point deduction for the fixture against Brentford and a further three points for the match against Doncaster Rovers.

Both penalties are suspended for 18 months and will not be activated as long as the Club is not subject to a further misconduct charge for non-fulfilment of fixtures in that timeframe.

The financial penalty issued includes £20k and £50k fines handed out for the two respective fixtures, with half of the amounts due also suspended for 18 months.

The decision remains subject to appeal.

This season’s fixture with Doncaster Rovers will be rescheduled and details will be confirmed as soon as possible.

[Copps is Magic]

I think a lot of DRFC fans have a right to be annoyed with this, but we are seeing the picture out of focus.

This is not the EFL enforcing fines and possible points deductions, this is the Independent Panel and their conclusion.

The EFL have not yet endorsed this and the statements from the EFL clearly point out that it's not them.

This is not over yet.

Seems implausible that they would disagree with their own regulatory framework and at odds with something Hoden posted on twitter about the EFL board. Where is the precedent for what you are implying...?

[5 on Tour]

Well we’ve got lots of games coming up. We can just miss one and get no punishment. In fact every single club in the country can now do this once every 2 seasons.

In the entire history of colossal f**k-ups this must be near the top. This has turned football and it’s league structure into a complete and utter shambles. It wasn’t exactly in a great place to begin with and the way Bolton have been spoon fed help compared to the Bury situation is a disgrace.

Making the whole situation worse we have Keith “d**khead”’ Hill saying we no idea what Bolton and it’s fans have been through. Really? Is he naive? Stupid? Arrogant? Or maybe all of the above? I hope they go down and stay down. They are turning out to be a truly vile hell hole of a club who deserve to rot.

[silent majority]

I think a lot of DRFC fans have a right to be annoyed with this, but we are seeing the picture out of focus.

This is not the EFL enforcing fines and possible points deductions, this is the Independent Panel and their conclusion.

The EFL have not yet endorsed this and the statements from the EFL clearly point out that it's not them.

This is not over yet.

Seems implausible that they would disagree with their own regulatory framework and at odds with something Hoden posted on twitter about the EFL board. Where is the precedent for what you are implying...?

Well, we'll all have to wait and see. This is new territory, but as part of the committee that meets with the EFL I can assure you it's not cut and dried yet.

And I wouldn't believe everything that the press puts out.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/18052697.bolton-set-five-point-suspended-penalty-independent-panel/

Another headline refers to their 'reprieve' so they know they've got off lightly.

I've always tried to explain that the EFL present the case to Disciplinary Commission, which is independant, against Bolton.

Reading the EFLs statement again it clearly says they, the EFL reserve the right to appeal, not Bolton (although they do too)

So clearly as S_M says, the EFL are not happy with the outcome either.

The Bolton news article also refers to several league parties not being happy with the outcome either.

[swintonrover]

f**k them. Go over the heads of the EFL. Get UEFA involved. International Arbitration of Sport. Legal action. Every other format of football down to kids football it is common acceptance that if you don't turn up, the opposition gets 3 points.
The football league have let a team dictate what they do, which is not on.
The clear and obvious point Rovers need to make is that we WILL NOT play this game under any circumstances. They can throw fines at us, we have more money than Bolton.

Morality first, money later.

[PDX_Rover]

The club has to appeal this and present a sound legal argument. The precedent this sets is ridiculous.

The rules are there for all to see. Hiding behind some academy rules which don’t even apply to them is b*llocks.

Worst outcome possible. f**king stinks.

[Alan Southstand]

Martin,

The EFL have put out an official statement - see my amended post above.

If upheld, this could be the beginning of the end of the football league competition, as we currently know it.

[silent majority]

Martin,

The EFL have put out an official statement - see my amended post above.

If upheld, this could be the beginning of the end of the football league competition, as we currently know it.

I didn't say that the EFL haven't put out a statement, I said they hadn't endorsed the ruling from the Independent Commission.

The EFL still have a right of appeal.

It's not for us to appeal.

[silent majority]

The club has to appeal this and present a sound legal argument. The precedent this sets is ridiculous.

The rules are there for all to see. Hiding behind some academy rules which don’t even apply to them is b*llocks.

Worst outcome possible. f**king stinks.

It's not for us to appeal, we are not present in this, it's a decision the EFL have to make.

[silent majority]

You see this bit;

At a hearing on Thursday 14 November 2019, the Club pleaded guilty to the charges and, after hearing representations from both parties, the independent panel has ruled that Bolton Wanderers will be subject to a two point deduction for the fixture against Brentford and a further three points for the match against Doncaster Rovers.

You're assuming one of those parties is us, it isn't.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Martin,

The EFL have put out an official statement - see my amended post above.

If upheld, this could be the beginning of the end of the football league competition, as we currently know it.

Yes Alan, that last part of the statement has been amended!

You're right though, this is a shocking indictment of any judicial system.

[Filo]

You see this bit;

At a hearing on Thursday 14 November 2019, the Club pleaded guilty to the charges and, after hearing representations from both parties, the independent panel has ruled that Bolton Wanderers will be subject to a two point deduction for the fixture against Brentford and a further three points for the match against Doncaster Rovers.

You're assuming one of those parties is us, it isn't.

Are you saying DRFC never made representations?