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Author Topic: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers  (Read 5301 times)

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ss1953

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Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« on November 22, 2019, 12:17:36 pm by ss1953 »
Wanted to throw this idea out and not be lost in the other threads.



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DonnyBazR0ver

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #1 on November 22, 2019, 12:23:29 pm by DonnyBazR0ver »
Just posted similar in the other thread. I hope this will be considered in the appeal process.

LincsRover

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #2 on November 22, 2019, 12:32:13 pm by LincsRover »
Of course it won’t, we’ll get what TLOD always gets from the EFL, f*ck all!

IDM

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #3 on November 22, 2019, 12:36:49 pm by IDM »
It wasn’t the EFL who imposed this fine, and seen as the EFL are appealing this outcome as too lenient, your statement doesn’t make any sense.

LincsRover

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #4 on November 22, 2019, 01:14:27 pm by LincsRover »
Let’s see what happens with the “appeal”. I’ve more chance of winning the lottery 3 weeks running than it being overturned. But let’s wait and see, I’m usually wrong and hopefully this time!

ss1953

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #5 on November 22, 2019, 01:44:52 pm by ss1953 »
It wasn’t the EFL who imposed this fine, and seen as the EFL are appealing this outcome as too lenient, your statement doesn’t make any sense.

Does it matter who imposed the fine?

We were wronged; the club must have lost some money in cancelling travel and reissuing tickets etc.
We should be compensated.

Given the other threads asking for boycotting the game on the grounds that our revenue will pay their fine, we need compensation.




IDM

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #6 on November 22, 2019, 01:48:38 pm by IDM »
My post was in direct response the previous poster who was criticising the EFL, and their perceived lack of support for DRFC.

sheffield exile1

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #7 on November 30, 2019, 07:22:09 pm by sheffield exile1 »
Conundrum- we all support Rovers, and when we boycotted/walked out in that fateful season it hurt. However lets look at this realistically. What does the EFL want to happen in its appeal? Do we know. Is it just an appeal against the leniency? Depending on that outcome we can then look at what it means for DRFC- financially/results which could have occurred at different times. and what it says to football in general, as in a club deciding not to fulfill a fixture without recourse to protocol/procedure. Two separate agendas. What is the obligation to follow any un/sucessful appeal? Realistically I think we will have to play said fixture. So, given that, what do we want? Financial rewards would help us as a league 1 club. Personally I would say if the appeal is successful this. No club should ever be able to arbitrarily call off a fixture because the owners (administrators) decided to (and we can, all and have, speculate why) ever and send a message to that effect. Be it a fine/points deduction or other punishment- as that is what needs punishing as a deterrent. Secondly we need financial reparations for loss of revenue as we were geared up to fulfill, fans, team etc. Thirdly whatever the result of the played fixture it is secondary to the other two points- opinions?

Bristol Red Rover

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #8 on November 30, 2019, 11:00:04 pm by Bristol Red Rover »
...Secondly we need financial reparations for loss of revenue as we were geared up to fulfill, fans, team etc....

I recall that's fairly concrete within the EFL rule as it stands, apart from the fans side of it. Will be a minimal charge made to Bolton.

I suspect the points deduction will go from suspended to put in place. The fine may be increased a touch. And beyond that it depends how much the EFL are on board with DRFC's perspective, and if not then it's up to DRFC to act with lawyers and taking the matter further if needed.

bpoolrover

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #9 on December 01, 2019, 01:45:16 am by bpoolrover »
It wasn’t the EFL who imposed this fine, and seen as the EFL are appealing this outcome as too lenient, your statement doesn’t make any sense.

Does it matter who imposed the fine?

We were wronged; the club must have lost some money in cancelling travel and reissuing tickets etc.
We should be compensated.

Given the other threads asking for boycotting the game on the grounds that our revenue will pay their fine, we need compensation.



How much money should we get?

bpoolrover

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #10 on December 01, 2019, 01:55:39 am by bpoolrover »
For me Bolton fine is irrelevant, they have had money troubles And it’s nothing to do with the supporters, we should get the points and that should be the end of it, if there was a fine the money should go to the supporters who lost out on train fares ect.

Frankie Rennie

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #11 on December 01, 2019, 04:48:55 pm by Frankie Rennie »
The Independant panel looked at all of the issues involving Bolton not just the Rovers game so like it or not you have to get it into perspective. No question we were wrong to call off the game with such limited warning. There is currently no fixed penalty for the offence so it’s unlikely until there is that you will get the points I’m afraid and the game will be played.

I certainly think your fans should be compensated but I’m not sure how you’d do that other than by free entry when the game is played. As for the future, a rule has to be in place to accommodate this in future and if this means awarding the game to the opposition, plus some fine or points penalty for the offender. I can’t see how anyone can complain about that but only if it’s officially in place so everyone is fully aware. Given our last pathetic performance at Accy, I wouldn’t be too worried facing us anyway!!

Campsall rover

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #12 on December 01, 2019, 06:07:20 pm by Campsall rover »
The Independant panel looked at all of the issues involving Bolton not just the Rovers game so like it or not you have to get it into perspective. No question we were wrong to call off the game with such limited warning. There is currently no fixed penalty for the offence so it’s unlikely until there is that you will get the points I’m afraid and the game will be played.

I certainly think your fans should be compensated but I’m not sure how you’d do that other than by free entry when the game is played. As for the future, a rule has to be in place to accommodate this in future and if this means awarding the game to the opposition, plus some fine or points penalty for the offender. I can’t see how anyone can complain about that but only if it’s officially in place so everyone is fully aware. Given our last pathetic performance at Accy, I wouldn’t be too worried facing us anyway!!
We are not worried about facing you. If you have 11 premier league players in your team or 11 18yr olds it’s totally irrelevant. We are not after 3 easy points.
The point most of us are making which most Bolton fans don’t seem to understand is your club unilaterally cancelled a game 28 hrs before kick off with no consideration to anybody else except yourselves.

Forfeit of the game SHOULD be the ONLY possible outcome.

Yes it isn’t in the rules which quite frankly is a disgrace. The EFL are obviously incompetent and not fit for purpose.

Frankie Rennie

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #13 on December 01, 2019, 11:46:18 pm by Frankie Rennie »
Campsall, I’ve said before, I agree with you, the penalty should be us forfeiting the game, you get the points and we are penalised but that is just an opinion because there is no fixed ruling in place.

As I’ve also said, the Doncaster game is only one of the issues the EFL have with Wanderers so the Independent panel would have had to look at everything. I know you quite rightly see our game as all your interested in but I’m afraid it’s much deeper than that. I can’t see any way our game won’t be rearranged, which you will be unhappy about but we all know the EFL is not fit for purpose and that hopefully they will be brought to task by the investigation currently underway. Actually, when you think about it, for there not to already be a rule in place on this is pretty shocking by any standards!!

BobG

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #14 on December 02, 2019, 11:40:42 pm by BobG »
Even the Belles got the victory when Watford failed to fulfill their fixture....

http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-belles-handed-fa-cup-walkover-against-watford-1-8369797

BobG

silent majority

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #15 on December 03, 2019, 06:27:10 pm by silent majority »
The Independant panel looked at all of the issues involving Bolton not just the Rovers game so like it or not you have to get it into perspective. No question we were wrong to call off the game with such limited warning. There is currently no fixed penalty for the offence so it’s unlikely until there is that you will get the points I’m afraid and the game will be played.

I certainly think your fans should be compensated but I’m not sure how you’d do that other than by free entry when the game is played. As for the future, a rule has to be in place to accommodate this in future and if this means awarding the game to the opposition, plus some fine or points penalty for the offender. I can’t see how anyone can complain about that but only if it’s officially in place so everyone is fully aware. Given our last pathetic performance at Accy, I wouldn’t be too worried facing us anyway!!
We are not worried about facing you. If you have 11 premier league players in your team or 11 18yr olds it’s totally irrelevant. We are not after 3 easy points.
The point most of us are making which most Bolton fans don’t seem to understand is your club unilaterally cancelled a game 28 hrs before kick off with no consideration to anybody else except yourselves.

Forfeit of the game SHOULD be the ONLY possible outcome.

Yes it isn’t in the rules which quite frankly is a disgrace. The EFL are obviously incompetent and not fit for purpose.


Campsall,

I've been in a meeting with the EFL today, and this issue was raised both in the formal part of the meeting and afterwards with a personal chat.

There's a lot of sympathy for our position, but until the minutes are agreed I won't be able to say much more.

Campsall rover

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #16 on December 03, 2019, 07:44:03 pm by Campsall rover »
The Independant panel looked at all of the issues involving Bolton not just the Rovers game so like it or not you have to get it into perspective. No question we were wrong to call off the game with such limited warning. There is currently no fixed penalty for the offence so it’s unlikely until there is that you will get the points I’m afraid and the game will be played.

I certainly think your fans should be compensated but I’m not sure how you’d do that other than by free entry when the game is played. As for the future, a rule has to be in place to accommodate this in future and if this means awarding the game to the opposition, plus some fine or points penalty for the offender. I can’t see how anyone can complain about that but only if it’s officially in place so everyone is fully aware. Given our last pathetic performance at Accy, I wouldn’t be too worried facing us anyway!!
We are not worried about facing you. If you have 11 premier league players in your team or 11 18yr olds it’s totally irrelevant. We are not after 3 easy points.
The point most of us are making which most Bolton fans don’t seem to understand is your club unilaterally cancelled a game 28 hrs before kick off with no consideration to anybody else except yourselves.

Forfeit of the game SHOULD be the ONLY possible outcome.

Yes it isn’t in the rules which quite frankly is a disgrace. The EFL are obviously incompetent and not fit for purpose.


Campsall,

I've been in a meeting with the EFL today, and this issue was raised both in the formal part of the meeting and afterwards with a personal chat.

There's a lot of sympathy for our position, but until the minutes are agreed I won't be able to say much more.
Thanks for update S M

adamtherover

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #17 on December 03, 2019, 08:10:46 pm by adamtherover »
For what it's worth a cancelled game between lincoln and Bolton has been arranged for January, so the EFL are starting to fill blank mid week slots, let's see if We get a name check? 

drfchound

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #18 on December 03, 2019, 08:12:28 pm by drfchound »
The circumstances of that game being called off originally are different to our case though Adam.

adamtherover

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #19 on December 03, 2019, 08:30:42 pm by adamtherover »
Of course, I'm more trying to make the point that games are now being rescheduled, so we might be hearing news  about maybe the Shrewsbury game for example....
I'm not holding my breath on a  bolton announcement till the end of April,  with the EFL praying that we are mid table and bolton already relegated....

drfchound

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #20 on December 03, 2019, 08:53:45 pm by drfchound »
Of course, I'm more trying to make the point that games are now being rescheduled, so we might be hearing news  about maybe the Shrewsbury game for example....
I'm not holding my breath on a  bolton announcement till the end of April,  with the EFL praying that we are mid table and bolton already relegated....






I just hope that we (and or Bolton) are in a position where it causes problems for the EFL.

Frankie Rennie

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #21 on December 04, 2019, 09:43:49 am by Frankie Rennie »
Looks like 4th Jan is being considered to play this match so you may get to play our team as is and before we have time to strengthen in the window.

Campsall rover

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #22 on December 04, 2019, 10:04:56 am by Campsall rover »
Looks like 4th Jan is being considered to play this match so you may get to play our team as is and before we have time to strengthen in the window.
We are not bothered about you strengthening. We should be give the game. End of as far as i am concerned.
Yes FR I know you said you agree with me. BUT WILL THE RIGHT DECISION BE MADE?

Not a chance, we are only Doncaster Rovers.
If this had been done in the premier league it would have been sorted within a a couple of weeks and the points would have been awarded to the opposing team.

It’s a SHAMBLES. Who are the EFL appealing to. They appointed the panel from their own people in the first place didn’t they. I can’t get my head round what a total farce this is.

Frankie Rennie

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #23 on December 04, 2019, 12:57:08 pm by Frankie Rennie »
I totally agree with you Campsall, it’s a complete farce and yes you should have the points and yes we should be punished as well and of course there should be a fixed penalty where clubs arbitrarily call off a game as we did.

I don’t believe it’s because Doncaster aren’t a “big” club, I just thinks it’s more indicative of the complete shambles the EFL is. We all want an end to this because the length of time it’s taking does nobody any good. We’ve even got Lincoln complaining now that we might strengthen in the window before we play our rearranged game with them despite them calling our game off due to weather. The whole situation is getting silly and if the EFL had just sorted it as above giving you the points in the first place it could have avoided all this.

DonnyBazR0ver

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #24 on December 04, 2019, 01:39:38 pm by DonnyBazR0ver »
Looks like 4th Jan is being considered to play this match so you may get to play our team as is and before we have time to strengthen in the window.
We are not bothered about you strengthening. We should be give the game. End of as far as i am concerned.
Yes FR I know you said you agree with me. BUT WILL THE RIGHT DECISION BE MADE?

Not a chance, we are only Doncaster Rovers.
If this had been done in the premier league it would have been sorted within a a couple of weeks and the points would have been awarded to the opposing team.

It’s a SHAMBLES. Who are the EFL appealing to. They appointed the panel from their own people in the first place didn’t they. I can’t get my head round what a total farce this is.

No Campsall. It's an Independant Commission appointed by the FA not the EFL. The appeal is also supposedly heard by an Independant tribunal, also appointed by the FA. The rules stipulate whom each panel is made up of in terms of qualifications.

That said, I'm sure many think the EFL should have dealt with it in the first place, as they do have the authority to impose the relevant sanctions. Maybe with the complexity of the case, considering the Brentford issue as well, they decided to refer it to the FA. They maybe regretting that now.

Campsall rover

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #25 on December 04, 2019, 04:32:08 pm by Campsall rover »
Looks like 4th Jan is being considered to play this match so you may get to play our team as is and before we have time to strengthen in the window.
We are not bothered about you strengthening. We should be give the game. End of as far as i am concerned.
Yes FR I know you said you agree with me. BUT WILL THE RIGHT DECISION BE MADE?

Not a chance, we are only Doncaster Rovers.
If this had been done in the premier league it would have been sorted within a a couple of weeks and the points would have been awarded to the opposing team.

It’s a SHAMBLES. Who are the EFL appealing to. They appointed the panel from their own people in the first place didn’t they. I can’t get my head round what a total farce this is.

No Campsall. It's an Independant Commission appointed by the FA not the EFL. The appeal is also supposedly heard by an Independant tribunal, also appointed by the FA. The rules stipulate whom each panel is made up of in terms of qualifications.

That said, I'm sure many think the EFL should have dealt with it in the first place, as they do have the authority to impose the relevant sanctions. Maybe with the complexity of the case, considering the Brentford issue as well, they decided to refer it to the FA. They maybe regretting that now.
I was told the EFL appointed their own people to the panel. So what you say DBR makes a lot more sense.

Frankie Rennie

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #26 on December 04, 2019, 04:42:17 pm by Frankie Rennie »
Complexity was exactly the reason it was referred independently Doonybaz. There are a string of very contentious issues between Wanderers and the EFL, mainly arising from the personal relationship between our former owner and their previous chairman Shaun Harvey. There will be a lot that the Independant committee considered that isn’t in the public domain but suffice it to say that the Doncaster match is the least of our issues with the EFL. I know you’re not bothered about that but I’m afraid you’ve become embroiled in something much bigger for the EFL than just the calling off of our game.

bobjimwilly

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #27 on December 04, 2019, 05:10:11 pm by bobjimwilly »
Frankie, it's a bit weird you agree in future points should be awarded to the other team and fines should be awarded to the offending team, and the game shouldn't have to be replayed, yet you fail to agree this should apply to Bolton? Surely it would make sense to apply it to the Bolton v Doncaster game, set a precedent, then change the rules to reflect the precedent?

Frankie Rennie

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #28 on December 04, 2019, 08:15:24 pm by Frankie Rennie »
But I did agree it should apply to this game bobjimwilly but that’s only my personal opinion and I’m not sure that the EFL will see it that way. Whatever happens there must surely be a set rule so that everyone understands the penalties involved. That doesn’t mean an appeal can’t be made but there has to be some clear punishment to prevent offenders using it for their own benefits.

ss1953

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Re: Boltons fine should be handed to Rovers
« Reply #29 on January 08, 2020, 07:30:00 pm by ss1953 »
I repeat, we should get the fine.

We were wronged. The club and the fans have lost money.
Give us the fine.

The EFL are toothless. (Ironic as I’m a dentist!!!)


 

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