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Author Topic: Local Elections And Hartlepool  (Read 6229 times)

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SydneyRover

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #480 on May 08, 2021, 09:53:52 pm by SydneyRover »
Are they anything like the rumours of who our new manger is pud?



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drfchound

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #481 on May 08, 2021, 09:54:43 pm by drfchound »
Come on Sydney, rumour has it the shadow chancellor, foreign secretary, health secretary are all for the sack aswell as reducing the deputy leader of many roles.

The only person at the top he isn't sacking is himself...





They could do with getting rid of that smarmy git Ashworth.

SydneyRover

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #482 on May 08, 2021, 10:19:09 pm by SydneyRover »
Labour needs to shift perception back to being the party for the working person rather than which ever cause (blm, trans etc) students shout loudest about. As long as it has the image of student protest behind it (and Corbyn was the ultimate student revolutionary) then it is doomed. Why has no socialist Labour government been elected in my lifetime (born 1977) ? Those on the left need to be asking themselves that. Blair was pretty much centre / tory light

Because the people of the UK have shown that they don't want that, look no further than Corbyn's last result, directly electing a socialist government will not happen until the UK public can be educated on the benefits of running the country in a similar way to say Sweden. The workers of the UK have shown they don't care for the protections that the EU voted on and are happy to take a gamble on them being kept, although the government has repeatedly said the protections will stay with one minister saying they will even be improved but without providing any detail. Moving the country to the left can only happen over time from a position of power where the government of the day can explain why for instance a fully funded and owned NHS will benefit everyone. Especially in times of a pandemic or similar.

tyke1962

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #483 on May 08, 2021, 10:20:02 pm by tyke1962 »
Are they anything like the rumours of who our new manger is pud?

Only the tribalism stops you from seeing the catastrophe that's going on Sydney .

Metalmicky

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #484 on May 08, 2021, 10:23:18 pm by Metalmicky »
They could do with getting rid of that smarmy git Ashworth.

Totally agree with you there - always reminds me of a modern day Roy Hattersley.....

SydneyRover

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #485 on May 08, 2021, 10:29:06 pm by SydneyRover »
Are they anything like the rumours of who our new manger is pud?

Only the tribalism stops you from seeing the catastrophe that's going on Sydney .

Oh I see it alright and it hurts just as much but I look from a pragmatic pov, but then I have never voted to support a conservative government in my lifetime.

drfchound

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #486 on May 08, 2021, 10:32:19 pm by drfchound »
Labour needs to shift perception back to being the party for the working person rather than which ever cause (blm, trans etc) students shout loudest about. As long as it has the image of student protest behind it (and Corbyn was the ultimate student revolutionary) then it is doomed. Why has no socialist Labour government been elected in my lifetime (born 1977) ? Those on the left need to be asking themselves that. Blair was pretty much centre / tory light

Because the people of the UK have shown that they don't want that, look no further than Corbyn's last result, directly electing a socialist government will not happen until the UK public can be educated on the benefits of running the country in a similar way to say Sweden. The workers of the UK have shown they don't care for the protections that the EU voted on and are happy to take a gamble on them being kept, although the government has repeatedly said the protections will stay with one minister saying they will even be improved but without providing any detail. Moving the country to the left can only happen over time from a position of power where the government of the day can explain why for instance a fully funded and owned NHS will benefit everyone. Especially in times of a pandemic or similar.




The Uk public
The workers of the UK

Not “we” anymore.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #487 on May 08, 2021, 10:33:10 pm by Bentley Bullet »
I'm sure Ashworth uses filters to make him look better in video calls. He was on GMTV the other morning and his eyes were like Bambie's.

drfchound

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #488 on May 08, 2021, 10:34:59 pm by drfchound »
I'm sure Ashworth uses filters to make him look better in video calls. He was on GMTV the other morning and his eyes were like Bambie's.





He should lock his microphone down too.....to make him seem more intelligent.

tyke1962

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #489 on May 08, 2021, 10:42:58 pm by tyke1962 »
Are they anything like the rumours of who our new manger is pud?

Only the tribalism stops you from seeing the catastrophe that's going on Sydney .

Oh I see it alright and it hurts just as much but I look from a pragmatic pov, but then I have never voted to support a conservative government in my lifetime.

Neither have I .

SydneyRover

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #490 on May 08, 2021, 10:44:22 pm by SydneyRover »
Labour needs to shift perception back to being the party for the working person rather than which ever cause (blm, trans etc) students shout loudest about. As long as it has the image of student protest behind it (and Corbyn was the ultimate student revolutionary) then it is doomed. Why has no socialist Labour government been elected in my lifetime (born 1977) ? Those on the left need to be asking themselves that. Blair was pretty much centre / tory light

Because the people of the UK have shown that they don't want that, look no further than Corbyn's last result, directly electing a socialist government will not happen until the UK public can be educated on the benefits of running the country in a similar way to say Sweden. The workers of the UK have shown they don't care for the protections that the EU voted on and are happy to take a gamble on them being kept, although the government has repeatedly said the protections will stay with one minister saying they will even be improved but without providing any detail. Moving the country to the left can only happen over time from a position of power where the government of the day can explain why for instance a fully funded and owned NHS will benefit everyone. Especially in times of a pandemic or similar.




The Uk public
The workers of the UK

Not “we” anymore.

Ever been a member of a union hound?

SydneyRover

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #491 on May 08, 2021, 10:57:31 pm by SydneyRover »
Just had a close friend of the family voted into council for the first time for him (lab) unfortunately he's well educated and his parents are not short of a bob.

albie

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #492 on May 08, 2021, 11:17:09 pm by albie »
With Rayner getting the sack I am beginning to fear for Starmer's mental health
.
Was Rayner responsible for letting Mandelson go to Hartlepool and appear on TV?.....if so, a rebuke, but not a sacking. I thought he should that he would take full responsibilty!

By all means shuffle the cabinet if that is part of a review after the local elections, but you don't do it like this.

His behaviour is moving from the inept into the disturbed territory.
Does he drink, and maybe been at the whisky too hard by way of consolation?

SydneyRover

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #493 on May 08, 2021, 11:20:53 pm by SydneyRover »
He'll be ok with the full support of the party Albie

albie

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #494 on May 08, 2021, 11:25:32 pm by albie »
Sydney,

He does not have the support of any element in Labour with this, except his own inner circle.
This is well understood inside Labour, and will ignite an almighty row for no purpose.

Trust me, the blades are being edged as we speak.

SydneyRover

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #495 on May 08, 2021, 11:57:44 pm by SydneyRover »
It's a democratic party Albie I would expect no less, If I'm allowed to use another football analogy if we listen to everything the rank and file said we would only have Copps left at this moment and without management and a board.

albie

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #496 on May 09, 2021, 12:34:18 am by albie »
Thing is Sydney, it is not really a democratic party, but it should be.

Look at the imposition of candidates on local parties....it went down like a pint of cold sick in Hartlepool.

Given the appalling performance in the local elections, I would expect a proper review once the dust has settled. Firing people without explaining how they had underperformed is very poor, it looks like scapegoating, even if it isn't.

Rayner is Deputy Leader, elected by the members.
She stays in that role, because Starmer has no power to remove her. This is not going to help with a good working relationship, is it?

Whatever next, demote Annaliese Dodds and promote some brownose like Jess Phillips?
Nobody wants to see people promoted just because they pander....what price competence?

SydneyRover

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #497 on May 09, 2021, 01:00:20 am by SydneyRover »
Thing is Sydney, it is not really a democratic party, but it should be.

Look at the imposition of candidates on local parties....it went down like a pint of cold sick in Hartlepool.

Given the appalling performance in the local elections, I would expect a proper review once the dust has settled. Firing people without explaining how they had underperformed is very poor, it looks like scapegoating, even if it isn't.

Rayner is Deputy Leader, elected by the members.
She stays in that role, because Starmer has no power to remove her. This is not going to help with a good working relationship, is it?

Whatever next, demote Annaliese Dodds and promote some brownose like Jess Phillips?
Nobody wants to see people promoted just because they pander....what price competence?

The party is what it is and can only be changed by members and that's how it should be but if it is perceived there is something wrong then it should have been change before a crises point. These issues if that's how they are seen by the majority should have been addressed following the 2017 election, not a win but it should have given Corbyn the confidence to act. As with the voting system this should have been change by Blair.

The labor party here is constantly attempting hits on the government about x,y,z but did nothing on many issues when they were in power, they spent the whole time fighting each other, even while they were in power, go figure they dumped the leader Rudd and PM for Gillard then later dumped Gillard for Rudd again and guess what they lost the next GE. They have only been in power something like 4 of the last 24 years or so.



drfchound

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #498 on May 09, 2021, 08:47:33 am by drfchound »
He'll be ok with the full support of the party Albie





Starmer isn’t ever going to get the full support of the Party.
He hasn’t even got the full support of Labour posters on here.

SydneyRover

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #499 on May 09, 2021, 09:13:50 am by SydneyRover »
Sort of like Corbyn then, apparently?

DonnyOsmond

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #500 on May 09, 2021, 10:01:00 am by DonnyOsmond »
Labour needs to shift perception back to being the party for the working person rather than which ever cause (blm, trans etc) students shout loudest about. As long as it has the image of student protest behind it (and Corbyn was the ultimate student revolutionary) then it is doomed. Why has no socialist Labour government been elected in my lifetime (born 1977) ? Those on the left need to be asking themselves that. Blair was pretty much centre / tory light

Because the people of the UK have shown that they don't want that, look no further than Corbyn's last result, directly electing a socialist government will not happen until the UK public can be educated on the benefits of running the country in a similar way to say Sweden. The workers of the UK have shown they don't care for the protections that the EU voted on and are happy to take a gamble on them being kept, although the government has repeatedly said the protections will stay with one minister saying they will even be improved but without providing any detail. Moving the country to the left can only happen over time from a position of power where the government of the day can explain why for instance a fully funded and owned NHS will benefit everyone. Especially in times of a pandemic or similar.

Tbf neither Labour or Sweden are socialist. Socialism is owning the means of production and distribution like Cuba, neither want or do that, they're both capitalist, free market ideals with a large number of social ideas. They are Social Democracies.


SydneyRover

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #501 on May 09, 2021, 10:15:49 am by SydneyRover »
Agreed DO, pure socialism would never work but Sweden is doing OK albeit with a much smaller population, very high in provision of welfare in the form of from University education, long paternity leave for parents and very low levels violence in the community, and of course higher taxes.

SydneyRover

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #502 on May 10, 2021, 02:13:54 pm by SydneyRover »
Thing is Sydney, it is not really a democratic party, but it should be.

Look at the imposition of candidates on local parties....it went down like a pint of cold sick in Hartlepool.

Given the appalling performance in the local elections, I would expect a proper review once the dust has settled. Firing people without explaining how they had underperformed is very poor, it looks like scapegoating, even if it isn't.

Rayner is Deputy Leader, elected by the members.
She stays in that role, because Starmer has no power to remove her. This is not going to help with a good working relationship, is it?

Whatever next, demote Annaliese Dodds and promote some brownose like Jess Phillips?
Nobody wants to see people promoted just because they pander....what price competence?

Things change very quickly since we discussed this and you were correct it wasn't popular with many, if any.

Hopefully the horses have been quelled and the ''lessons'' learned.

Herbert Anchovy

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #503 on May 10, 2021, 02:40:19 pm by Herbert Anchovy »
Agreed DO, pure socialism would never work but Sweden is doing OK albeit with a much smaller population, very high in provision of welfare in the form of from University education, long paternity leave for parents and very low levels violence in the community, and of course higher taxes.

I’ve got a few pals in Sweden, and have spent a fair amount of time there myself. This socialist political philosophy is not terribly popular at all (with them and their circle at least). They are hugely taxed and though public services are good, there’s a feeling that they should be much better given the level of tax that they pay. As for violence in the community, this may have been accurate 20 years ago, however areas of the larger cities have been seriously affected by large increases in gang violence over recent years. Many people put this down to increased levels of immigration over recent years which in turn lends support to the right wing.

SydneyRover

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Re: Local Elections And Hartlepool
« Reply #504 on May 10, 2021, 03:04:33 pm by SydneyRover »
I imagine we'll be going back again as soon as it's covid safe to travel, there's always grumbles everywhere about high taxes HA from some but if you want a better society ...........

There is bikie gang rivalry and associated violence but some of our family whom live in Stockholm are not overly concerned about and we have discussed.

https://www.thelocal.se/20200124/explained-violence-among-swedens-motorcycle-biker-gangs-is-not-a-new-problem/

 

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