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Author Topic: Russian donations to the Tories  (Read 950 times)

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Ldr

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #30 on May 18, 2022, 12:19:09 pm by Ldr »
I guess objective truth isn’t a concern as long as he can smear the tories



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SydneyRover

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #31 on May 18, 2022, 12:34:32 pm by SydneyRover »
Donations to the tories from people connected to russia are def' an issue are they not?

''Labour accuses Conservatives of resorting to 'lawfare' to shut down questions about 6-figure donation from Ehud Sheleg''

https://www.businessinsider.in/politics/world/news/labour-accuses-conservatives-of-resorting-to-lawfare-to-shut-down-questions-about-6-figure-donation-from-ehud-sheleg/amp_articleshow/91627831.cms

So why all the gymnastics to delay and try to nobble the make up of the security committee?

''Russia report by parliament’s intelligence and security committee has finally been published''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/21/just-what-does-the-uk-russia-report-say-key-points-explained

"The Russia report" is the report of the British Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament (ISC) into allegations of Russian interference in British politics, including alleged Russian interference in the 2016 Brexit referendum and the 2014 Scottish independence referendum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_and_Security_Committee_Russia_report#:~:text=%22The%20Russia%20report%22%20is%20the,the%202014%20Scottish%20independence%20referendum.

Would you put your house on the tories being honest and clean in this regard? why no investigation into interference?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #32 on May 18, 2022, 12:40:52 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
BFYP

Put the pieces together.

Would you normally expect senior political office holder to respond to a normal question from an MP by implicitly threatening legal action?

And then, when the matter is raised again and again, for his successor to simply ignore the requests for information?

That's all very unusual behaviour to say the least.

Now put that into the context of the NY Times finding evidence that the matter in question concerned extremely serious breaches of the law by the Tory party. And that first response looks like an attempted frightener, while the ignored requests looks like someone hoping the issue would go away.

Dodds was bang on the money in her statement. If the Tory party still refuses to answer legitimate questions on the legality of their exchanged with Shelek, what redress does Parliament have?

Remember, the Tories made Shelek their Treasurer. And it now appears that he and they broke the law on political contributions.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #33 on May 18, 2022, 12:41:17 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
I guess objective truth isn’t a concern as long as he can smear the tories
What the f**k are you babbling on about?

SydneyRover

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #34 on May 18, 2022, 01:04:57 pm by SydneyRover »
Its a bit of a tenuous link and ultimately the answers the guy have given can't really be proven to be illegal, it's a subjective answer that can't really be disputed.

All the russian money flowing into tory coffers, obfuscation the delays regarding the Security Committee report, no investigation over the most sacred bit of UK governance and the basis of democracy and no inquiry, doesn't all this make you a teensy bit uncomfortable pud?

danumdon

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #35 on May 18, 2022, 02:48:14 pm by danumdon »
This is really important. And far, far beyond party politics.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AnnelieseDodds/status/1526576788289331200

Fair enough, there are questions there that do require answering.

I'm just a bit intrigued, did the right hon member for Aberavon ever have as much interest in mum and dads financial dealings?


BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #36 on May 18, 2022, 03:08:11 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Bothsidesism again.

On our side, illegal donations from hostile foreign country.

On the other, legal payment for doing a job.

But they are all the same aren't they?

Ldr

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #37 on May 18, 2022, 03:13:25 pm by Ldr »
Bothsidesism again.

On our side, illegal donations from hostile foreign country.

On the other, legal payment for doing a job.

But they are all the same aren't they?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/barry-gardiner-mi5-mps-chinese-labour-b1992599.html

danumdon

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #38 on May 18, 2022, 03:46:55 pm by danumdon »
Bothsidesism again.

On our side, illegal donations from hostile foreign country.

On the other, legal payment for doing a job.

But they are all the same aren't they?

Do you consider it fair and equitable that a failed former MP should of been earning a salary as an Eu commissioner, paid from EU taxpayers money that would also qualify him for a pension reputed to be in the region of £90k?

You must of considered his performance as justifying this vast amount.

Many others didn't.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #39 on May 18, 2022, 06:42:25 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Bothsidesism again.

On our side, illegal donations from hostile foreign country.

On the other, legal payment for doing a job.

But they are all the same aren't they?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/barry-gardiner-mi5-mps-chinese-labour-b1992599.html

Nothing illegal about that one Ldr.

Stupid and ill-advised as I've said before.

But it was a stupid single MP. Not the central party.

Individual MPs do do stupid or illegal things. Like the Tory who's just been accused of rape. They face individual consequences.

Party policy is a different thing altogether.

drfchound

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #40 on May 18, 2022, 06:49:23 pm by drfchound »
It’s gone a bit quiet about the Labour  front bench MP who made lewd suggestions to Rachel Reeves hasn’t it.
Maybe it will just go away.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #41 on May 18, 2022, 07:13:37 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Bothsidesism again.

On our side, illegal donations from hostile foreign country.

On the other, legal payment for doing a job.

But they are all the same aren't they?

Do you consider it fair and equitable that a failed former MP should of been earning a salary as an Eu commissioner, paid from EU taxpayers money that would also qualify him for a pension reputed to be in the region of £90k?

You must of considered his performance as justifying this vast amount.

Many others didn't.

Again. Totally different from illegal donations.

Do you honestly not see the difference between law breaking and subjective opinion?

BobG

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #42 on May 18, 2022, 07:16:08 pm by BobG »
It's appalling, frightening even, how the big picture escapes so many on this forum. No party is perfect. Every party has idiots, mavericks and everything inbetween. But the one sided preponderance of illegal, unsound, ill considered and vindictive behaviour is completely ignored by a huge number of people. I hope they're never in any jury I may have to face. Blinkers don't do well when the job is assessing evidence rationally.

BobG

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #43 on May 18, 2022, 07:47:41 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
Its a bit of a tenuous link and ultimately the answers the guy have given can't really be proven to be illegal, it's a subjective answer that can't really be disputed.

All the russian money flowing into tory coffers, obfuscation the delays regarding the Security Committee report, no investigation over the most sacred bit of UK governance and the basis of democracy and no inquiry, doesn't all this make you a teensy bit uncomfortable pud?

I wrote a reply earlier and clearly it didn't post, busy days and all that.

Yes and no. We shouldn't fear external influence that's part of global society.  Worth remembering the guys father in law is not Russian either.

Also worth noting labour wanted to open up voting to non UK nationals and thus also political donations, so they don't appear to fear it at all.

Re bst you've summed up my point well there, I imagine legally it would be conjecture. It appears there may be a link, but none of us can prove that.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #44 on May 18, 2022, 09:32:51 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
BFYP
I don't understand what you mean by this being "conjecture".

Barclays Bank themselves flagged this up to the National Crime Agency as suspect, saying "We are able to trace a clear line back from this donation to its ultimate source" the "ultimate source" being an ethnic Russian oligarch in Crimea, who is a known mover in Kremlin circles.

It's worth pointing out that his nationality is not the criminal issue here. The orina facie evidence of criminality is the donation being made from ANY foreigner to a UK party. It wouldn't matter if he was from Calais, it would still be criminal. The fact that the Tories are accepting boatloads of cash from known Putin associates is a political question.

danumdon

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #45 on May 18, 2022, 10:11:07 pm by danumdon »
Bothsidesism again.

On our side, illegal donations from hostile foreign country.

On the other, legal payment for doing a job.

But they are all the same aren't they?

Do you consider it fair and equitable that a failed former MP should of been earning a salary as an Eu commissioner, paid from EU taxpayers money that would also qualify him for a pension reputed to be in the region of £90k?

You must of considered his performance as justifying this vast amount.

Many others didn't.

Again. Totally different from illegal donations.

Do you honestly not see the difference between law breaking and subjective opinion?

Only person who mentioned illegal in the post was you, or maybe you was thinking about what this fella and his pal Mandleson were upto during their EU sojourn.

If we renamed the thread EU donations to the Labour party would that make you feel better.

BillyStubbsTears

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  • Posts: 30738
Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #46 on May 18, 2022, 10:32:14 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
DD

I'll say it again. For a self-professed political neutral, you seem determined to turn every post pointing out illegality by the Tories into one aimed at point scoring against Labour.

The whole point of the OP to this thread is that there is strong evidence that the ex-Treasurer of the Tory party was illegally shovelling money into the Party coffers from foreigners. What that has to do with Kinnock being an EU Commissioner, God alone knows.

drfchound

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #47 on May 18, 2022, 10:35:43 pm by drfchound »
Genuine question here, I do not know the answer so perhaps someone in the know could help. Has it been proved that the Tory Party has done anything wrong with regards to the said donations?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 06:26:53 am by drfchound »

SydneyRover

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #48 on May 19, 2022, 05:28:59 am by SydneyRover »
Its a bit of a tenuous link and ultimately the answers the guy have given can't really be proven to be illegal, it's a subjective answer that can't really be disputed.

All the russian money flowing into tory coffers, obfuscation the delays regarding the Security Committee report, no investigation over the most sacred bit of UK governance and the basis of democracy and no inquiry, doesn't all this make you a teensy bit uncomfortable pud?

I wrote a reply earlier and clearly it didn't post, busy days and all that.

Yes and no. We shouldn't fear external influence that's part of global society.  Worth remembering the guys father in law is not Russian either.

Also worth noting labour wanted to open up voting to non UK nationals and thus also political donations, so they don't appear to fear it at all.

Re bst you've summed up my point well there, I imagine legally it would be conjecture. It appears there may be a link, but none of us can prove that.

As well you know, or maybe you don't which arguably worse but nevertheless your dismissal of serious allegation against the tories they have form and have been taken to task by the electoral commission and have continued to defy all scrutiny regarding their fondness for everything russian especially donation of the overly generous type.

Maybe a bit of honesty on your part would help here, you are approached by a person that admires what you do for a crust and such is his/her admiration it is decided that they would pay your kids school fees and how about a new car, or two even.

Do you say, why thank you, I am much impressed by your selfless generosity and would not even think of insulting you by asking if you required anything at all in return and take the dosh or would you ........

The choice is yours pud.

Remember this extraordinary act of kindness has been played out multiple times to those with immense privilege and power at the heart of the UK government.

Also please remember this party has form on the board.

''Investigation in respect of the Conservative and Unionist Party campaign spending returns for the 2014 European parliamentary Election, and 2015 UK Parliamentary General Election, and in respect of the 2014 parliamentary by-elections in
Clacton, Newark and Rochester and Strood 16 March 2017

''The magnitude of the contraventions and the harm caused to confidence in the PPERA regime were, in the Commission’s view,
significant
''                        Guilty and fined

AND

''The Russia report" is the report of the British Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament (ISC) into allegations of Russian interference in British politics, including alleged Russian interference in the 2016 Brexit referendum and the 2014 Scottish independence referendum''

From a multi-party committee admired for it diligence and bipartisan approach and the government sounds as dismissive of this as you are yourself pud.

Long live Londongrad and friends of russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOAtz8xWM0w











BobG

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #49 on May 19, 2022, 05:29:41 pm by BobG »
I see the evidence in support of my Post No., 42 above grows ever more overwhelming. It'd be comic if it weren't so tragic.

BobG

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #50 on May 19, 2022, 08:24:31 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
Sydney, I'd follow the due process in line with the policies of my professional body
(ethics and all) and the law frankly.  If all criteria were met of course I'd accept it, if they weren't and I couldn't i obviously would not.

SydneyRover

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Re: Russian donations to the Tories
« Reply #51 on May 19, 2022, 10:48:04 pm by SydneyRover »
Sydney, I'd follow the due process in line with the policies of my professional body
(ethics and all) and the law frankly.  If all criteria were met of course I'd accept it, if they weren't and I couldn't i obviously would not.

So you would agree that an inquiry into russian interference in UK politics and donations to the tory party is long overdue.

 

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