Coronavirus

[River Don]

I don't think requiring carers to do all they can not to be a vector for a highly contagious life threatening illness around vulnerable people is fascistic.

For one thing, nobody is being coerced. There is always work available away from contact with the vulnerable.

[Ldr]

It's for the common good Ldr

Still doesn’t justify overruling the rights of the individual over their body

[Not Now Kato]

It’s a slippery slope, choice must never be denied

Choice without care of the consequences is an even slippier slope!

[Ldr]

It’s a slippery slope, choice must never be denied

Choice without care of the consequences is an even slippier slope!

Nice to know you are a fascist really at heart NNK

[SydneyRover]

Come on Ldr that's a bit of a stretch by any means, not sure what more can be done.

I've taken a very small risk to vaccinated (1st dose) which will hopefully protect me and those that I come into contact with as I shouldn't spread it after a second dose. There are clauses for genuine medical reasons and we're told they will be moved to non-frontline positions, I have no sympathy for anti-vaxers.

[selby]

  Well Ldr, myself and NNk disagree on a load of subjects, but thinking he is anything like a fascist is stretching it a bit in my mind.

[Ldr]

They are supporting trampling the rights of the individual for ‘the greater good’………..

[River Don]

It turns out the Pime Minister thinks the Health Secretary is "totally f***ing hopeless"

Right, carry on.

[SydneyRover]

Every man for himself, dear oh dear

''Boris Johnson described Matt Hancock as “totally f**king hopeless” during the early stages of the pandemic, concerned by the health secretary’s testing promises, new text messages published by Dominic Cummings have revealed''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/16/cummings-texts-show-boris-johnson-calling-matt-hancock-totally-hopeless

[selby]

Ldr, you might not realise it but the first time I went to Turkey and a number of other countries especially in Africa you had to get inoculated against certain diseases before you could go on Holiday or business, it's nothing new.

[Not Now Kato]

They are supporting trampling the rights of the individual for ‘the greater good’………..

Rights come with responsibilities, for the greater good.

[Ldr]

They are supporting trampling the rights of the individual for ‘the greater good’………..

Rights come with responsibilities, for the greater good.

Responsibilities are not compulsory by nature, they are down to the individual to comply

[selby]

  Then it is simple Ldr, some can carry on being an individual, but like other jobs where you need certain qualifications, not being vaccinated should cost them the right to work as care workers, it will be their choice in the end.

[Ldr]

A) in any job there is uproar if you change conditions after employing, unions will have a field day

B) your not really getting it, you simply cannot take away people’s rights to choose over their own bodies

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's for the common good Ldr

Still doesn’t justify overruling the rights of the individual over their body

Nobody is saying that individuals will be forced to be vaccinated. Just that their freedom to interact with the rest of society in an unfettered way will be limited if they don't get vaccinated. You're making this more emotive than it actually is.

[Ldr]

“The Guardian understands that ministers will confirm they are pushing ahead with compulsory vaccination for most of the 1.5 million people working in social care in England“

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

They aren't going to tie people down and gag them while they stick a needle in them.

It will become a requirement of employment. Like the requirement for tube drivers to accept drink and drug tests.

[Ldr]

It doesn’t read that this would be for future employees, given the track record of this government can you really rule anything out?

[Metalmicky]

Ldr...... Surely you must be able to see the connection between un-vaccinated people - who could be Covid carriers - being a risk to the fragile population of a care home...

[wilts rover]

A) in any job there is uproar if you change conditions after employing, unions will have a field day

B) your not really getting it, you simply cannot take away people’s rights to choose over their own bodies

A - not really, anyone can have their conditions changed at any time - espcially as it applies to everyone in that job. They also have a right to redundancy if they do not wish to take up the new contract. That's the Tories weakening employment law for you.

B - you are correct. The government can however introduce new employment law clauses whenever it wants. It's up to MP's to vote them down and the public to put pressue on MP's to do this. No-one will be forced to be vaccinated, just like no-one should be forced to work in a care home.

I do think it is very foolish for the government to announce this plan in this way - but then again I think how it has been done is typical of this government.

- what will this acutually achieve? Is it to stop staff getting sick, or residents/patients getting sick? If its the former, a bit of a drastic move, if its the latter, where is the data that vaccinated people can't transmit the virus?

- where is the plan to replace the people who are going to leave? We know there are already 1 million vaccancies - don't announce something that will make the staffing crises worse unless you have a plan to replace them.

I can see it making the situation worse in care homes rather than better.

[drfchound]

I’m sure it will be a condition of employment that care workers will need to be vaccinated within sixteen weeks if they want to keep their jobs.

[albie]

Care and Nursing facilities have a legal duty of care, both to staff and to residents.

Once a provider is aware that a hazard exists, they are under a responsibility to take all reasonable steps to remove or mitigate the risks.

Failure to do so would make them liable to potential prosecution.

[wilts rover]

In addition to my post above another problem with this proposal has also occured to me - who is going to check it is happening? Very few care homes are now council run, most are private businesses - who is going to check to see that every member of staff in every care home in the UK has had a vaccine jab. It was only last week Hancock admitted he didn't know how many care homes there were, never mind how many staff they have.

The more I think of it the more this seems like a populist government throwing out a policy that went down well in a focus group to see what would happen and with no real intention of carrying it out. Again.

[SydneyRover]

back to the virus, this is what passes for fact from the government

''Johnson: 'We put India on the red list on 23 April and the Delta variant was not so identified until 28 April'

Public Health England declared Delta a "variant under investigation" on 28 April (although it was not named Delta until the end of May).

But it had been identified through genetic sequencing as being in the UK in the week beginning 8 March.

And it had been designated as a "variant of interest" by the World Health Organization (WHO) on 4 April.

Gee and so easily verifiable too.

[albie]

Earwig-O,
https://www.channel4.com/news/hospitals-told-to-brace-for-double-wave-of-covid-and-child-infections

A gift to the people of the UK, from your favourite provider, the Johnson/Hancock Group!

[Ldr]

Earwig-O,
https://www.channel4.com/news/hospitals-told-to-brace-for-double-wave-of-covid-and-child-infections

A gift to the people of the UK, from your favourite provider, the Johnson/Hancock Group!

The one saving grace Albie is that Paeds tend not to share resource with Adults

[bpoolrover]

The problem is if you close the borders soon as there is a variant of Interest they will closed most of the time

[River Don]

The problem is if you close the borders soon as there is a variant of Interest they will closed most of the time

Whilst ever the virus is still running rampant and mutating in most parts of the world, it's a distinct possibility.

But what's the alternative? All we should do is monitor it and when a new variant of concern appears, like the one in Russia now, shut travel down until the risk is understood.

Otherwise we run the risk of allowing a more vaccine resting strain of taking hold, which would be disasterous.

[bpoolrover]

But they could be like this for years or ever rd, the delta one is in over 80 countries now and over 50 new variants are being looked at, you can't stay shut forever

[Janso]

Ah well that's that then, just do f**k all about it and hope for the best.