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Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 377568 times)

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big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13080 on July 27, 2021, 11:49:26 am by big fat yorkshire pudding »
Again you swing it back to the government.  The guidelines were clear not to mix patients but for whatever reason hospitals didn't follow them.  Matt Hancock couldn't go to dri and forceably do it could he?

Wow just Wow... It was the hospitals fault. Utterly Staggering.... Indoctrinated much BFYP?

Which hospital mixed them up?  Was it so hard to keep covid and non covid patients on separate wards?



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KeithMyath

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13081 on July 27, 2021, 12:09:04 pm by KeithMyath »
Again you swing it back to the government.  The guidelines were clear not to mix patients but for whatever reason hospitals didn't follow them.  Matt Hancock couldn't go to dri and forceably do it could he?

Wow just Wow... It was the hospitals fault. Utterly Staggering.... Indoctrinated much BFYP?

Which hospital mixed them up?  Was it so hard to keep covid and non covid patients on separate wards?

There was separate wards, I’m not sure what you are implying. Is there some evidential facts that patients were being moved around between wards knowing they had Coronavirus? It wasn’t even government policy to test everyone coming in to hospital to see if they had coronavirus.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13082 on July 27, 2021, 12:10:58 pm by SydneyRover »
''David Oliver: Lack of PPE betrays NHS clinical staff''

from that well known lefty communist magazine the British Medical Journal

''The failure to provide adequate personal protective equipment (PPE) to health and social care workers during the pandemic has highlighted the disintegration of any culture of integrity, transparency, honesty, and support for healthcare staff from the government and NHS employers.

I have reported in The BMJ this week on NHS trusts’ behaviour around supply of PPE to their clinical staff and the trusts’ responses when staff complained.1 Of 66 NHS trusts (of 130 approached) that replied to my freedom of information request, only two confirmed that they had explicitly restricted PPE use, warned staff about its overuse, or warned them over complaining about shortages. Only one NHS trust admitted being subject to investigation from the Health and Safety Executive for covid related deaths among staff, even though the HSE confirmed a number of investigations''

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n438

hound: ''Don’t waste your breath Dickos, even your first hand experience of the PPE situation won’t carry any weight in the discussion''

I'll take your dickos and quadruple it with David Oliver whom also works in the hospital system as a surgeon and writes regularly for the bmj

''David Oliver FRCP is a British physician specialising in the geriatric medicine and acute general internal medicine. He was President of the British Geriatrics Society from 2014 to 2016. He is Visiting Professor of Medicine for Older People in the School of Community and Health Sciences at City University London and a King's Fund Senior Visiting Fellow. He was formerly the UK Department of Health National Clinical Director for Older People's Services from 2009 to 2013. He is a researcher, writer, teacher and lecturer on services for older people and a regular blogger, columnist and media commentator. He was recently elected as Clinical Vice President of the Royal College of Physicians, London''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Oliver_(doctor)

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13083 on July 27, 2021, 12:12:40 pm by bpoolrover »
My take is that I'm sure there was some lack of ppe but the hospital my wife works at just didn't understand COVID, at the start the only people to get any Ppe we're doctors and the nurses who spent a lot of time with COVID patients, the rest were told they didn't need it, so most of the other nurses including my wife then caught it, while all that is poor you could look at it that yes they made a mistake but they didn't no anything about the virus

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13084 on July 27, 2021, 12:20:31 pm by SydneyRover »
There was a massive shortage bp, well documented

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13085 on July 27, 2021, 12:28:56 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
Again you swing it back to the government.  The guidelines were clear not to mix patients but for whatever reason hospitals didn't follow them.  Matt Hancock couldn't go to dri and forceably do it could he?

Wow just Wow... It was the hospitals fault. Utterly Staggering.... Indoctrinated much BFYP?

Which hospital mixed them up?  Was it so hard to keep covid and non covid patients on separate wards?

There was separate wards, I’m not sure what you are implying. Is there some evidential facts that patients were being moved around between wards knowing they had Coronavirus? It wasn’t even government policy to test everyone coming in to hospital to see if they had coronavirus.

Yes as I mentioned a relative of mine went in to hospital without covid and was placed on a ward of 4 with 3 who did have covid. She tested negative when she went in as she was tested on arrival but positive whilst in there later on.

KeithMyath

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13086 on July 27, 2021, 12:29:34 pm by KeithMyath »
My sister worked on the Covid wards, seconded there due to lack of staff. She was there from mid April till August. There wasn’t PPE, they were told by government health officials that there was, and it was a distribution problem. That was a lie. They had to use makeshift PPE and make that we’re supposed to be single use for days at a time, My sister only towards the end of June! finally was issued with all the PPE they were desperate for around the beginning of May when stock supplies had run out.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13087 on July 27, 2021, 12:29:52 pm by SydneyRover »
''7 May 2020

Revealed: PPE stockpile was out-of-date when coronavirus hit UK
By Channel 4 News Investigations Team
Channel 4 News obtains full inventory of the national pandemic stockpile – revealing vital safety gear was years out of date''

https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-ppe-stockpile-was-out-of-date-when-coronavirus-hit-uk

This subject has been done to death and there is shit loads of evidence pointing to a chronic PPE shortage with catastrophic results, but I for one will not stand by and read the comments of those  trying to rewrite recent history.


KeithMyath

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13088 on July 27, 2021, 12:37:09 pm by KeithMyath »
Again you swing it back to the government.  The guidelines were clear not to mix patients but for whatever reason hospitals didn't follow them.  Matt Hancock couldn't go to dri and forceably do it could he?

Wow just Wow... It was the hospitals fault. Utterly Staggering.... Indoctrinated much BFYP?

Which hospital mixed them up?  Was it so hard to keep covid and non covid patients on separate wards?

There was separate wards, I’m not sure what you are implying. Is there some evidential facts that patients were being moved around between wards knowing they had Coronavirus? It wasn’t even government policy to test everyone coming in to hospital to see if they had coronavirus.

Yes as I mentioned a relative of mine went in to hospital without covid and was placed on a ward of 4 with 3 who did have covid. She tested negative when she went in as she was tested on arrival but positive whilst in there later on.

That’s an unfortunate lived experience. Something has failed in that case, which can happen in a pandemic,  but that is one lived experience. You can’t apply that to the hospital outright for all cases.

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13089 on July 27, 2021, 12:38:32 pm by dickos1 »
If you don't add the detail dickos your answers don't make much sense, surely you must be refreshed if you slept through last years ppe shortage and how the tories lined the pockets of their 'sponsors' with luverly contracts.

I don't have a problem with them handing out contracts to the chumocracy provided everyone has the same opportunities, same for jobs in the civil service and all the other jobs handed out to cronies.

''Britain’s civil service remains upper-middle class
Not so much has changed since the 1960s, a new report says''

https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/05/20/britains-civil-service-remains-upper-middle-class

That’s a separate point, and it is a fair point regarding contracts to their mates.
But at the time the nhs hadn’t ordered sufficiently and got stung by trying to get it cheaper themselves when people were offering it then.
Which left us in a mess and certainly not in a position to start the usual tender process, we needed it ASAP so rightly or wrongly they used people who could help immediately.

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13090 on July 27, 2021, 12:41:01 pm by dickos1 »
There was a massive shortage bp, well documented

As I’ve previously said, procurement at the nhs we’re contacted daily and offered PPE, but they didn’t return calls or said they were fine.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13091 on July 27, 2021, 12:45:45 pm by SydneyRover »
Your comment 89 is contradicted by 90, even so, do you have a comment on Davis Oliver's piece from the bmj, is he wrong?

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13092 on July 27, 2021, 12:50:55 pm by dickos1 »
Your comment 89 is contradicted by 90, even so, do you have a comment on Davis Oliver's piece from the bmj, is he wrong?

I think you’ve misunderstood
Where’s the contradiction?

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13093 on July 27, 2021, 12:53:19 pm by dickos1 »
Your comment 89 is contradicted by 90, even so, do you have a comment on Davis Oliver's piece from the bmj, is he wrong?

He’s spot on!
And confirms what I’ve been saying

“The documents suggest a failure by Public Health England and NHS Supply Chain’s management company, Supply Chain Coordination Limited, to maintain the stockpile in a state of readiness.”

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13094 on July 27, 2021, 12:57:28 pm by SydneyRover »
So we are in furiously agreement there was a shortage of ppe in health care facilities exacerbated by the fact that the emergency stockpiles there for just such an occasion were out of date.

chrisfisher

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13095 on July 27, 2021, 01:00:01 pm by chrisfisher »
bp, If they had locked down a lot earlier there would have been tens of thousands more alive. Going back to the start of this nightmare the only weapon governments had while a vaccination was developed was lockdown and isolation. The vaccination became available which the government rolled out at great speed, but having unvaccinated kids at school appears to be a great vector for spreading the disease (variant) Not sure about you but in normal times when the grand kids are at kindy, day school or whatever every household was full of colds and flu.

Lockdown has been criticised by many people (who and when)  for being too long and crippling the economy.
Lives have been lost because of the lockdown(who, how many and when) lives ruined, businesses destroyed.
There’s no right or wrong answer, if the lockdown has been for 3 months longer as you suggest then their would’ve been lots of ramifications from that.
And you’d be on here criticising the government for crippling the economy

When you bring back some evidence (f a c t s) to support your theory on lockdowns and who is it that doesn't support them I/we may get somewhere. A few dates may be helpful also so there is an understanding of when and what you are referring to. Also if you could point out where I mentioned 3 months that may jog my memory.

You also need to separate the 'lives ruined' bit from the 'businesses ruined' bit so I/we know exactly what you are referring to.

While you are at it you could also explain what should have been done to curb the spread of the virus between the bit where it started and the vaccines became available.

That should keep you busy for a while although you could just ignore it if you don't have any answers.

If any of your answer start with 'a mate down the pub' or fb maybe save your breath and time.

I know you’re the other side of the planet but I do wonder if you’re even on this planet.
Because if you haven’t seen anyone criticising lockdowns then frankly you can’t be.

I don’t need to change any words, lives have been ruined that’s a fact, people losing their homes, their livelihoods, family members taking their own lives. You’re in cuckoo land if you can’t accept lives have been ruined.
I’m not arguing against lockdowns but it’s nonsense to suggest there hasn’t been criticism of them nor that they haven’t caused lives to be ruined.
A lot of your posts have zero relevance to facts yet you keep asking others to provide them.

Regarding PPE, there was plenty of PPE available to the NHS, we supplied it and were in contact with them daily asking if they wanted more but they said it was all in hand, so much of the issue with supplies was down to the procurement team within the NHS, I know for a fact we weren’t the only people offering them PPE

Couldn't agree more

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13096 on July 27, 2021, 01:24:30 pm by bpoolrover »
There was a massive shortage bp, well documented
I agree there was a shortage in some places but there was not at my wife's hospital they just kept it for the important people lol

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13097 on July 27, 2021, 01:38:41 pm by dickos1 »
So we are in furiously agreement there was a shortage of ppe in health care facilities exacerbated by the fact that the emergency stockpiles there for just such an occasion were out of date.

I think we’re in furious agreement that the shortage of PPE was caused by a number of factors. But you seem predictably to only be concentrating all your efforts on one of these

River Don

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13098 on July 27, 2021, 02:21:51 pm by River Don »
Professor lockdown Neil Ferguson is suggesting in the Mail that the European Championships may have acted as an effective transmission vehicle for younger age groups. We might be further on the road to herd immunity than we thought.

He suggests it will probably be as over as it's going to be by October.

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13099 on July 27, 2021, 02:47:48 pm by dickos1 »
Ferguson is crackers,
The other weeks he suggested the peak woukd be 200,000 cases a day.
Now he’s looking for reasons why he was so woefully incorrect

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13100 on July 27, 2021, 04:11:29 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
Ferguson is crackers,
The other weeks he suggested the peak woukd be 200,000 cases a day.
Now he’s looking for reasons why he was so woefully incorrect

I do agree with this.

However there is the possibility that just maybe the public is much more capable of making behavioural adjustments where risks are higher than scientists thought.

Note, 23000 cases reported today, last Tuesday was 46000....
« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 04:13:37 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »

Metalmicky

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13101 on July 27, 2021, 04:20:11 pm by Metalmicky »
23,511 cases today and 131 deaths   

selby

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13102 on July 27, 2021, 06:59:26 pm by selby »
  As far as the numbers of positive tests are concerned a doctor broadcasting today was sceptical saying he has seen this effect before on the numbers and intimated that parents and youngsters can manipulate the numbers with the tests.
  He intimated that during term time people were more than willing to cheat the test system for time off work and school term time, but during the holiday period  did not want to be found positive in the tests.
  If this is true a lot of what is wrote on here, and is put forward by so called experts is a nonsense.
 

River Don

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13103 on July 27, 2021, 07:11:19 pm by River Don »
The numbers are about half last weeks figure today! Something unexpected seems to have happened and I haven't yet seen a really convincing explanation as to what's going on.

I thought we might start to expect to see an uptick from the unlock towards the back end of this week. The way things are moving so heavily down though, I wonder if it will just keep on falling?

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13104 on July 27, 2021, 07:21:06 pm by Bentley Bullet »
Selby's point is exactly what is happening and is at least a small contribution to the drop in cases.

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13105 on July 27, 2021, 07:50:04 pm by dickos1 »
  As far as the numbers of positive tests are concerned a doctor broadcasting today was sceptical saying he has seen this effect before on the numbers and intimated that parents and youngsters can manipulate the numbers with the tests.
  He intimated that during term time people were more than willing to cheat the test system for time off work and school term time, but during the holiday period  did not want to be found positive in the tests.
  If this is true a lot of what is wrote on here, and is put forward by so called experts is a nonsense.
 

It’s been put on here numerous times that there’s a 7-10 day lag on the effects of something like a sporting event or the relaxations of restrictions.

Therefore the low numbers over the last week can’t have anything to do with schools breaking up and the effects of parents cheating the system

ravenrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13106 on July 27, 2021, 09:14:08 pm by ravenrover »
Biliy is keeping his powder dry!

selby

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13107 on July 27, 2021, 09:32:46 pm by selby »
dickos1, it is not my theory I don't meet or know enough people to form an opinion, it was a Doctor broadcasting.

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13108 on July 27, 2021, 10:02:16 pm by dickos1 »
I never said it was your theory Selby,

I’m just saying people (not you) are using the 7-10 lag when it suits their argument but doing the opposite when it doesn’t suit their argument.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13109 on July 27, 2021, 11:12:09 pm by SydneyRover »
So we are in furiously agreement there was a shortage of ppe in health care facilities exacerbated by the fact that the emergency stockpiles there for just such an occasion were out of date.

I think we’re in furious agreement that the shortage of PPE was caused by a number of factors. But you seem predictably to only be concentrating all your efforts on one of these

I'm not sure we have discussed reasons other than the out of date stockpile dickos. Shortages must surely have played a part in the estimated 850 health care workers that died from covid last year, wouldn't you agree?

 

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