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Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 860428 times)

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dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13110 on July 27, 2021, 11:21:03 pm by dickos1 »
Shortages due to a number of factors, not purely the government.
As I’ve pointed out earlier in the thread numerous times



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SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13111 on July 27, 2021, 11:26:36 pm by SydneyRover »
I may have obliquely or directly referred to it being the governments responsibility due to the fact that they had been in government around 10 years at the start of the pandemic and they have the complete findings of Cygnus. They have been tinkering with the NSW for most of that time. If those at the top are not ultimately responsible then who is? That's normally how a chain of command works for events so serious?

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13112 on July 27, 2021, 11:43:24 pm by dickos1 »
As was mentioned in the link you shared responsibility also needs to land at the feet of NHS’s Supply Chain’s management company, “Supply Chain Coordination Limited”
If you have a procurement team in place then it’s down to them to source stock and also ensure what they do have is fit for purpose.


SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13113 on July 28, 2021, 12:18:43 am by SydneyRover »
Thanks for that I overlooked it's importance in this mess.

'''Supply Chain Coordination Limited is a company registered in England and Wales on 25 July 2017 to manage the new NHS Supply Chain operating model, adopting its current company name on 15 November 2017.[1] It was set up by the Department of Health and Social Care in 2018,[2] and was intended to save £2.4 billion within 4–5 years.[3] Consultants Ernst & Young were reportedly paid up to £20m to help to establish the company.[4] Running costs for 2018-9 were £180 million, but costs are predicted to grow to £250 million in 2019–20 and to £260 million in 2020–21. This will be taken from the tariff payments to NHS trusts.[5]

The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care is the company's sole shareholder. Matt Hancock, then Secretary of State, set out in a letter dated 28 March 2019 the company's purpose, tasks, performance indicators, objectives, funding and governance.[6]

On beginning operations, the company's non-executive chair was Jim Spittle, and its CEO was Jin Sahota.[6] In September 2020, Sahota resigned.[7]''

Wikipedia.

''NAO criticises disarray in government COVID-19 procurement''

''19 November 2020: 8,600 pandemic-related contracts worth £18bn were entered into in the period up to 31 July 2020, but a lack of transparency in how they were awarded and inadequate documentation on the choice of suppliers and how conflicts of interest were managed, has given rise to serious concerns about how public money has been spent''

''Most of the contracts awarded were new, with a value of £10.5bn awarded directly without any competition. When such contracts are awarded at pace, procurement decisions made must be well documented to avoid future challenge and a lack of trust in those decisions, but the NAO reports that it is unable to give assurance that government has adequately mitigated the increased risks arising from emergency procurement or applied appropriate commercial practices in all cases''

https://www.icaew.com/insights/viewpoints-on-the-news/2020/nov-2020/nao-criticises-disarray-in-government-covid19-procurement

The more you look the more is found and all points in one direction >>>>>> government.


dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13114 on July 28, 2021, 07:04:53 am by dickos1 »
I think an important quote from your link is this,

The Government had to make procurement decisions extremely quickly to procure sufficient supplies of goods and services to combat the unprecedented demands presented by the coronavirus pandemic and it is understandable that following procurement processes and completing the paperwork may have not seemed to be the highest priority in the midst of a crisis.

There were thousands of tenders for contracts, we were involved in many, but at the worst stage when the pandemic was grabbing hold and we needed supplies as a matter of urgency I think it’s understandable that the government had to cut corners to get the stock in ASAP.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13115 on July 28, 2021, 07:31:56 am by SydneyRover »
Can't argue with that dickos and one of or the main reasons for the urgency was that the stockpiles of PPE there for this very eventuality were rubbish, past there use by date.

The other thing I guess is, the government oversaw the formation and roll out of the new Supply Chain entity with all the experience of around 8 years or more in government plus the findings of Cygnus which must have put it in a great position to build a procurement system that was totally smick, ready to go and with time to bed in and iron out any bugs, perfect for such an eventuality ................ how did that go?


dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13116 on July 28, 2021, 12:28:10 pm by dickos1 »
Yep,
Lots of PPE in hospitals were out of date.
But who’s to blame for that?
I’d have thought it would be the people in each individual facility who’s job it was to manage the stock.
But if the case is that they tried to get more upto date stock but we’re refused funding etc then that’s a different matter,

wilts rover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13117 on July 28, 2021, 01:02:19 pm by wilts rover »
Government not responsible for Governmental responsibility shock.

Channel 4 News did a big piece on PPE stock - and its failings, sometime last year, might still be online.

What most annoys me is that at the time they were insistant there was plenty of stock which met all the requirements - which was just another lie. You can understand they were faced with an unprecedented pandemic - what you can't is them lying about the real situation and their role in it. Did this cost lives? Which is why the inquiry should start asap.

drfchound

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13118 on July 28, 2021, 01:43:20 pm by drfchound »
Funny isn’t it that the government is held fully responsible for PPE shortages when, as Dickos says, individual procurement people had the responsibility of ordering stuff for their own NHS trust areas.
However the anti government word is that Hancock had overall responsibility because he was Health Minister.

BUT, the same anti government protestors give no credit to Hancock, who remember was Health Minister, for the success of the vaccine roll out because apparently it was nothing to do with him because the NHS sorted it out themselves.


sha66y

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13119 on July 28, 2021, 02:00:51 pm by sha66y »
Funny isn’t it that the government is held fully responsible for PPE shortages when, as Dickos says, individual procurement people had the responsibility of ordering stuff for their own NHS trust areas.
However the anti government word is that Hancock had overall responsibility because he was Health Minister.

BUT, the same anti government protestors give no credit to Hancock, who remember was Health Minister, for the success of the vaccine roll out because apparently it was nothing to do with him because the NHS sorted it out themselves.



Tongue in cheek methinks!

Metalmicky

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13120 on July 28, 2021, 02:11:13 pm by Metalmicky »

Metalmicky

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13121 on July 28, 2021, 02:26:47 pm by Metalmicky »
No quarantine for fully jabbed US and EU travellers to England - as decided by COC...... the Covid Operations Committee.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57999362

More details/dates etc will be released later on Wednesday. Not known when the change will come in - and if other UK nations will adopt the rule change.

drfchound

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13122 on July 28, 2021, 03:55:31 pm by drfchound »
I suppose if people fly into England there won’t be border checks to stop them driving into Scotland or Wales.

Metalmicky

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13123 on July 28, 2021, 04:24:49 pm by Metalmicky »
Cases up today 27k+ and 91 deaths..

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/easy_read

sha66y

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13124 on July 28, 2021, 04:57:46 pm by sha66y »
Cases up today 27k+ and 91 deaths..

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/easy_read

Not very reliable are them there government stats…..

River Don

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13125 on July 28, 2021, 05:42:41 pm by River Don »
Cases up today 27k+ and 91 deaths..

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/easy_read

16,000 down on last week though, that's another firm move in the right direction.

drfchound

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13126 on July 28, 2021, 05:53:05 pm by drfchound »
Things are looking quite good just now.
Hopefully it can continue.

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13127 on July 28, 2021, 06:14:05 pm by dickos1 »
Cases up today 27k+ and 91 deaths..

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/easy_read

Not very reliable are them there government stats…..

They’re from the same source that everyone quotes happily when they’re bad

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13128 on July 28, 2021, 10:48:08 pm by SydneyRover »
Yep,
Lots of PPE in hospitals were out of date.
But who’s to blame for that?
I’d have thought it would be the people in each individual facility who’s job it was to manage the stock.
But if the case is that they tried to get more upto date stock but we’re refused funding etc then that’s a different matter,

Well you would think whomever was responsible would hang the other out to dry or vice-versa and produce the evidence if which there must be shed loads, it can't be that hard aye dickos? but there is one thing it's not the healthcare workers that died in their hundreds and not the general public that died in their tens of thousands either.

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13129 on July 28, 2021, 10:59:54 pm by dickos1 »
Yep,
Lots of PPE in hospitals were out of date.
But who’s to blame for that?
I’d have thought it would be the people in each individual facility who’s job it was to manage the stock.
But if the case is that they tried to get more upto date stock but we’re refused funding etc then that’s a different matter,

Well you would think whomever was responsible would hang the other out to dry or vice-versa and produce the evidence if which there must be shed loads, it can't be that hard aye dickos? but there is one thing it's not the healthcare workers that died in their hundreds and not the general public that died in their tens of thousands either.

Of course not, but it’s not just in England where people have died because of this virus.
The way people talk it’s like we’re the only country that have suffered from this pandemic.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13130 on July 28, 2021, 11:13:08 pm by SydneyRover »
Yep,
Lots of PPE in hospitals were out of date.
But who’s to blame for that?
I’d have thought it would be the people in each individual facility who’s job it was to manage the stock.
But if the case is that they tried to get more upto date stock but we’re refused funding etc then that’s a different matter,

Well you would think whomever was responsible would hang the other out to dry or vice-versa and produce the evidence if which there must be shed loads, it can't be that hard aye dickos? but there is one thing it's not the healthcare workers that died in their hundreds and not the general public that died in their tens of thousands either.

Of course not, but it’s not just in England where people have died because of this virus.
The way people talk it’s like we’re the only country that have suffered from this pandemic.

It still does not answer the question why a body set up by this government specifically to deal with supply was incapable of doing that and why the government decided take it away from them and launch into a series of back door deals.

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13131 on July 28, 2021, 11:37:43 pm by dickos1 »
The government maybe had no option, they did what they had to do to get the stock in.
No doubt some of the crisis the government contributed to regarding PPE.
But 100% they aren’t the only ones that cocked up.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13132 on July 28, 2021, 11:43:15 pm by SydneyRover »
The government maybe had no option, they did what they had to do to get the stock in.
No doubt some of the crisis the government contributed to regarding PPE.
But 100% they aren’t the only ones that cocked up.

So if you know why don't you go public with the information dickos? The government is ultimately responsible for what the government does, who else are you going to blame labour?

You are continually in the realm of being official apologist for this lot dickos so we may as well end it there, I have never read so many excuses for so many events but zero official or credible sources to support what you say.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13133 on July 29, 2021, 12:01:04 am by Bentley Bullet »
It's only a matter of time before everyone ignores you.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13134 on July 29, 2021, 12:06:52 am by SydneyRover »
As night follows day
when bb can't get his way
the snarky haty bb comes out to play,

goodnight

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13135 on July 29, 2021, 08:34:24 am by dickos1 »
The government maybe had no option, they did what they had to do to get the stock in.
No doubt some of the crisis the government contributed to regarding PPE.
But 100% they aren’t the only ones that cocked up.

So if you know why don't you go public with the information dickos? The government is ultimately responsible for what the government does, who else are you going to blame labour?

You are continually in the realm of being official apologist for this lot dickos so we may as well end it there, I have never read so many excuses for so many events but zero official or credible sources to support what you say.

You seem to struggle when it comes to information put before you and you just ignore any questions asked.

I’m still waiting for you to point out the contradiction that you accused me of!

I’m still waiting for you to explain how people’s lives weren’t ruined due to the lockdowns.

You keep posting links and within these links the information in there clearly states a number of factors which contributed to the lack of PPE available but even though you posted the link yourself you ignore the bits that don’t follow your narrative.

You bring up party politics constantly, im not interested in party politics.

Because I’m giving you facts, you yourself are giving everyone the same facts with you links then I’m an apologist.

I think you’re just getting lost, you’re posting stuff that contradicts your own arguments your not answering anyone’s questions.
You probably need a break

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13136 on July 29, 2021, 08:54:35 am by SydneyRover »
I have never said people's lives have not been ruined but I have said tens of thousands have died that didn't need to .............. now this may stretch your brain a bit but what you don't appear to understand is that the government now in power have been in power for over 11 years and they are making all the decisions about covid and how the country responds. So if all these people have died, quite unnecessarily by decisions made by said government who is going to accept the blame, you, me or those that made the fateful decisions?

When you have answered this sensibly we could then move on otherwise I'm not interserted in listening to you excuses for them, you posting your opinions is not fact.

selby

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13137 on July 29, 2021, 09:06:43 am by selby »
  You have a narrow life Syd just arguing with those you don't like or disagree with, that's all you do and lose all respect and credibility.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13138 on July 29, 2021, 09:08:25 am by SydneyRover »
  You have a narrow life Syd just arguing with those you don't like or disagree with, that's all you do and lose all respect and credibility.

Coming from someone that's never had any respect regarding politics that's a bit rich selby

drfchound

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13139 on July 29, 2021, 09:21:02 am by drfchound »
It's only a matter of time before everyone ignores you.





He would probably start his own thread and argue with himself.

 

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