Coronavirus

[dickos1]

Dickos
We hear that line regularly from people who want to deflect criticism from the Govt. Think about what it actually means if you interpret it. "Other countries might be appear to be doing better than us right now. But let's not learn from them and see if they have policies which are working better than ours. If we wait long enough, they might have problems too and then we won't look so bad."

In the specific case of Germany, they currently have a per capita COVID death toll about half ours. Which suggests that they have indeed managed things WAY better than we have, and that there may be lessons for us. What you are saying is "Just wait 6 months. Germany might have 70,000 deaths more than we have over that period and then they'd be as bad as us. And there'd have been nothing for us to learn from them."

Not really!
If we’re in the midst of the pandemic, how can you say anyone is doing better than anyone else when we’re clearly not at the end.
A few months ago America were doing ok with regards delta now they’re in a mess,
Countries like New Zealand that lock down the country for one case amaze me,
How can they possibly think they can open up one day and never get any cases.

[dickos1]

Sweden went for herd immunity - how did that work out?

Maybe in 5 years time, when we look back Sweden will have done better than the countries lower down the list currently

[BillyStubbsTears]

There's something medieval about this "Don't assess till it's over" attitude that has been so prevalent among certain sections of the population. It's based on a rejection of the idea that you can predict and preempt and mitigate. It's like a pre-scientific acceptance of whatever shit comes our way.

[bpoolrover]

Have Germany lifted all restrictions yet?

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way. "America" isn't in a mess. Most of the country has the current outbreak more of less under control at the moment. The problem is mainly a string of Deep South states, where people aren't getting vaccinated and Trumpist Governors are insisting on finishing social distancing. To the extent that in places, they have made it illegal for shops to refuse to serve non-mask wearers. To the extent that teachers have been beaten up by flat-earth rednecks for wearing masks.

By pointing out America, you are actually making my point for me.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Have Germany lifted all restrictions yet?

No. They are vaccinating more people before they do. So that when they do, the virus doesn't go wild again.

[wilts rover]

You can point to the facts of where we are and how we got here - but if people believe the world is flat then to them the world is flat - however much evidence there is to the contrary.

If people still prefer to defend the handling of the pandemic in this country by a government that has lied from day 1 - go back and read this thread again - there is no evidence to the contrary that is going to make them change their mind.

[bpoolrover]

Have Germany lifted all restrictions yet?

No. They are vaccinating more people before they do. So that when they do, the virus doesn't go wild again.

how many will they before they do as they seem to be on par with how many in the Uk are getting first doses at the minute, we could lower the numbers like Germany by making people be double vaccinated to go hairdressers and restaurants and pubs ect like Germany will

[SydneyRover]

Have Germany lifted all restrictions yet?

No. They are vaccinating more people before they do. So that when they do, the virus doesn't go wild again.

how many will they before they do as they seem to be on par with how many in the Uk are getting first doses at the minute, we could lower the numbers like Germany by making people be double vaccinated to go hairdressers and restaurants and pubs ect like Germany will

I think it best if dickos answers this bp

[dickos1]

Have Germany lifted all restrictions yet?

No. They are vaccinating more people before they do. So that when they do, the virus doesn't go wild again.

how many will they before they do as they seem to be on par with how many in the Uk are getting first doses at the minute, we could lower the numbers like Germany by making people be double vaccinated to go hairdressers and restaurants and pubs ect like Germany will

I think it best if dickos answers this bp

I think frankly you’re the strangest chap I’ve ever come across.

[dickos1]

By the way. "America" isn't in a mess. Most of the country has the current outbreak more of less under control at the moment. The problem is mainly a string of Deep South states, where people aren't getting vaccinated and Trumpist Governors are insisting on finishing social distancing. To the extent that in places, they have made it illegal for shops to refuse to serve non-mask wearers. To the extent that teachers have been beaten up by flat-earth rednecks for wearing masks.

By pointing out America, you are actually making my point for me.

That’s not true I’m afraid.
California currently has the most cases in the US.

And you can predict, preempt, mitigate as much as you like but as you’ve proven previously, these can turn out to be wildly wrong.
So criticising countries and comparing to other countries is absolutely nonsensical when each country is at a different stage of the pandemic

[chrisfisher]

Places like New Zealand, Australia, Hong Kong etc will never open their borders again. Not in a generation.
They have a zero covid approach and they will never defer from it.

It's madness.

[bobjimwilly]

And you can predict, preempt, mitigate as much as you like but as you’ve proven previously, these can turn out to be wildly wrong.
So criticising countries and comparing to other countries is absolutely nonsensical when each country is at a different stage of the pandemic

I bet Johnson wishes he could say that publicly... 

OF COURSE we can compare to other countries/states. We should absolutely compare ourselves to other islands that had the power to restrict travel and enforce mandatory isolation in secure locations if we wanted to. Take Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, Singapore... 

Places like New Zealand, Australia, Hong Kong etc will never open their borders again. Not in a generation.
They have a zero covid approach and they will never defer from it.

It's madness.

They will defer from it, once they have double-vaxed as many people as possible. And because of their strategy, they've saved thousands of lives.
If anyone suggests our strategy is better and is the way to go, they are a f**king idiot

[SydneyRover]

Have Germany lifted all restrictions yet?

No. They are vaccinating more people before they do. So that when they do, the virus doesn't go wild again.

how many will they before they do as they seem to be on par with how many in the Uk are getting first doses at the minute, we could lower the numbers like Germany by making people be double vaccinated to go hairdressers and restaurants and pubs ect like Germany will

I think it best if dickos answers this bp

I think frankly you’re the strangest chap I’ve ever come across.

Gee I'm glad I never had the pleasure of working for or with you dickos as your standards are non-existent, johnson and his government have made an absolute b*llocks of their covid response where thousands have died unnecessarily and you keep making excuses for them.

PS: i suggested you answer bp as you both seem to be on the same page.

[chrisfisher]

And you can predict, preempt, mitigate as much as you like but as you’ve proven previously, these can turn out to be wildly wrong.
So criticising countries and comparing to other countries is absolutely nonsensical when each country is at a different stage of the pandemic

I bet Johnson wishes he could say that publicly... 

OF COURSE we can compare to other countries/states. We should absolutely compare ourselves to other islands that had the power to restrict travel and enforce mandatory isolation in secure locations if we wanted to. Take Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, Singapore... 

Places like New Zealand, Australia, Hong Kong etc will never open their borders again. Not in a generation.
They have a zero covid approach and they will never defer from it.

It's madness.

They will defer from it, once they have double-vaxed as many people as possible. And because of their strategy, they've saved thousands of lives.
If anyone suggests our strategy is better and is the way to go, they are a f**king idiot

Ahhh, good only personal abuse from a typical left wing pansy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way. "America" isn't in a mess. Most of the country has the current outbreak more of less under control at the moment. The problem is mainly a string of Deep South states, where people aren't getting vaccinated and Trumpist Governors are insisting on finishing social distancing. To the extent that in places, they have made it illegal for shops to refuse to serve non-mask wearers. To the extent that teachers have been beaten up by flat-earth rednecks for wearing masks.

By pointing out America, you are actually making my point for me.

That’s not true I’m afraid.
California currently has the most cases in the US.

And you can predict, preempt, mitigate as much as you like but as you’ve proven previously, these can turn out to be wildly wrong.
So criticising countries and comparing to other countries is absolutely nonsensical when each country is at a different stage of the pandemic

No, California does not currently have the highest numbers. It currently has around half the daily cases that Texas and Florida are seeing, despite having a much bigger population.

As for getting predictions wrong, I think you need to pipe down and look at the big picture. 18 months ago, you were very vocal in ridiculing people who saw how awful this was going to be. You said the idea that COVID deaths would be in the hundreds of thousands were nonsense, and people who were saying society was going to be totally changed were panicking. A bit of humility wouldn't go amiss.

[SydneyRover]

Places like New Zealand, Australia, Hong Kong etc will never open their borders again. Not in a generation.
They have a zero covid approach and they will never defer from it.

It's madness.

Australia and NZ were already travelling across the ditch back and forth, admittedly a bit spasmodically, but that's how NZ got their latest transmissions. Oz are still taking in returned travellers with 35,000 so far. Rich and shiny people come and go also. I guess maybe mid to the end of next year before full international travel gets underway.

[bpoolrover]

It will be interesting to see what happens when the kids go back as some people are predicting a lot higher numbers, but is there a chance they will come down slightly as less people will be mixing while on summer holidays ect

[BillyStubbsTears]

If Scotland is any guide, their positive test numbers doubled when the kids went back.

But really, the case numbers are secondary. What really matters is how many people get ill and die. Unfortunately after a brief lull, the deaths are rising sharply again. I fear we have more problems ahead.

[bpoolrover]

If Scotland is any guide, their positive test numbers doubled when the kids went back.

But really, the case numbers are secondary. What really matters is how many people get ill and die. Unfortunately after a brief lull, the deaths are rising sharply again. I fear we have more problems ahead.

yes I think for the first 2 weeks or so they will go up, but when holidays festivals ect finish and the weather is not as good so less people mixing it might at least equal it's self out, you look at the numbers in Scotland and the majority of people with it are of a young age and hopefully will not fall poorly, just depends if it gets passed on to the most vulnerable

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bpool.

When the weather gets worse you have a lot more mixing indoors. Which is the dangerous sort.

I agree that we shouldn't interpret a sudden increase in new cases when the kids go back as cause for panic. But I do think it will put the brief, sharp fall in late July in some context.

[Ldr]

Putting aside (and definitely not trivialising) the loss of life. What’s happened over the last year can be looked at as natural selection in action to an extent

[bpoolrover]

Again In my local hospital there are 45 people quite a big increase, with a third unjabbed and many have tested positive while going in for other reasons, 4 have died this week bit 2 were on end of life care and would have died unfortunately anyway, out of that 45 there is more than 10 that are really poorly or very very frail amd won't last very long without covid, but it's a shame that there lives will get cut short, I just find the numbers now do not paint the full picture of what is going on

[bpoolrover]

Denmark are going to lift all restrictions in 2 weeks will be interesting to follow what happens there

[bpoolrover]

38k cases again today (but tests are up 250k I think that was the number)

[River Don]

I think I see positive signs, if you look at the daily numbers compared with last week. I know difficult to read much into daily numbers but...

Today it's only up 780 on last week, and for the last few days it's been up 2000 on the previous week. Last week the figures were more like 3000 it looks to me like it's slowing down again.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Certainly there's been an uptick in tests over the back end of this week. But the vast majority of those test results haven't yet been reported. It'll be interesting to see how the numbers look as testing ramps up with kids going back to school. But as I say, that is really secondary to how the deaths and hospitalisation numbers go. At the moment those are both rising, not at scary rates, but rising nevertheless. The last couple of weeks, the daily deaths have been rising at a rate equal to doubling every 5-6 weeks. That's really not good, when we are starting from a position where nearly 800 people a week are dying of COVID. Fingers crossed that rise starts to turn round soon.

[bpoolrover]

Certainly there's been an uptick in tests over the back end of this week. But the vast majority of those test results haven't yet been reported. It'll be interesting to see how the numbers look as testing ramps up with kids going back to school. But as I say, that is really secondary to how the deaths and hospitalisation numbers go. At the moment those are both rising, not at scary rates, but rising nevertheless. The last couple of weeks, the daily deaths have been rising at a rate equal to doubling every 5-6 weeks. That's really not good, when we are starting from a position where nearly 800 people a week are dying of COVID. Fingers crossed that rise starts to turn round soon.

again thou how accurate are the numbers when every week half the people in my hospital have not gone in with Covid they just have it surely them numbers must be in other hospitals to

[dickos1]

And you can predict, preempt, mitigate as much as you like but as you’ve proven previously, these can turn out to be wildly wrong.
So criticising countries and comparing to other countries is absolutely nonsensical when each country is at a different stage of the pandemic

I bet Johnson wishes he could say that publicly... 

OF COURSE we can compare to other countries/states. We should absolutely compare ourselves to other islands that had the power to restrict travel and enforce mandatory isolation in secure locations if we wanted to. Take Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, Singapore... 

Places like New Zealand, Australia, Hong Kong etc will never open their borders again. Not in a generation.
They have a zero covid approach and they will never defer from it.

It's madness.

They will defer from it, once they have double-vaxed as many people as possible. And because of their strategy, they've saved thousands of lives.
If anyone suggests our strategy is better and is the way to go, they are a f**king idiot

If you think the U.K. government could’ve closed the borders the same way New Zealand have and Australia have then you’re a f###ing idiot.

[dickos1]

By the way. "America" isn't in a mess. Most of the country has the current outbreak more of less under control at the moment. The problem is mainly a string of Deep South states, where people aren't getting vaccinated and Trumpist Governors are insisting on finishing social distancing. To the extent that in places, they have made it illegal for shops to refuse to serve non-mask wearers. To the extent that teachers have been beaten up by flat-earth rednecks for wearing masks.

By pointing out America, you are actually making my point for me.

That’s not true I’m afraid.
California currently has the most cases in the US.

And you can predict, preempt, mitigate as much as you like but as you’ve proven previously, these can turn out to be wildly wrong.
So criticising countries and comparing to other countries is absolutely nonsensical when each country is at a different stage of the pandemic

No, California does not currently have the highest numbers. It currently has around half the daily cases that Texas and Florida are seeing, despite having a much bigger population.

As for getting predictions wrong, I think you need to pipe down and look at the big picture. 18 months ago, you were very vocal in ridiculing people who saw how awful this was going to be. You said the idea that COVID deaths would be in the hundreds of thousands were nonsense, and people who were saying society was going to be totally changed were panicking. A bit of humility wouldn't go amiss.

California has had 4.3million cases,
Texas 3.5
Florida 3.2

13000 new daily cases in California and over 100 deaths.
Population around 20 million less than England, yet you say America is under control and England is f##ked.