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Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 428914 times)

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bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13590 on September 13, 2021, 02:08:05 pm by bpoolrover »
12 to 15 year olds to be offered one dose of vaccine so again that should help bring numbers down



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BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13591 on September 13, 2021, 02:15:02 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Bpool.

As I say, it is basic epidemiology that viral outbreaks are worse in the Autumn and Winter. Why do you think we don't have the NHS under pressure from flu in July? The only thing that will break that connection is if we are approaching HI. Fingers crossed.

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13592 on September 13, 2021, 02:32:25 pm by bpoolrover »
I do understand stand that and that's why when many on here were saying to wait a few weeks to open up a few of us said now is the best time rather than waiting till winter, as you say fingers crossed

KeithMyath

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13593 on September 13, 2021, 03:49:10 pm by KeithMyath »
Here in Cornwall, All Routine and urgent surgery suspended at Cornwall's main hospital. This is due to high rates of Covid patients in Treliske Hospital. This is before the effects of schools mixing is fully understood and the forthcoming flu season. Also Cornwall & Devon has a higher Vaccination rate than that of Doncaster, 82% against 75% for fully vaccinated.

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13594 on September 13, 2021, 04:10:00 pm by bpoolrover »
Cases overall down 8 percent that's with over a million more tests over 7 days 30k new ones today

KeithMyath

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13595 on September 13, 2021, 04:19:22 pm by KeithMyath »
I would think it's due to the amount of people that went that area on holiday

We had people in their droves last summer, marginally more this year maybe with an influx of new pop up campsites etc. Cornwall has always been at full capacity for the 6 week holidays. The key point here was sacrificing social distancing / mask wearing at at time of spiralling infections into a county that has had virtually no cases throughout. And for that reason very low levels of natural immunity. Its ripped through Cornwall this summer (as many said it would after the G7 debacle set the Covid boulder rolling), mainly through the young and unvaccinated and the effects are far reaching, especially for a county that only has 1 hospital.

KeithMyath

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13596 on September 13, 2021, 04:26:24 pm by KeithMyath »
Cases overall down 8 percent that's with over a million more tests over 7 days 30k new ones today

My largest frustration on this topic of this forum is when people state the flawed government figures that its getting better/worse. Its only the the ONS figures that are truly measurable, free of influence and unrational data.

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13597 on September 13, 2021, 05:22:20 pm by bpoolrover »
I would think it's due to the amount of people that went that area on holiday

We had people in their droves last summer, marginally more this year maybe with an influx of new pop up campsites etc. Cornwall has always been at full capacity for the 6 week holidays. The key point here was sacrificing social distancing / mask wearing at at time of spiralling infections into a county that has had virtually no cases throughout. And for that reason very low levels of natural immunity. Its ripped through Cornwall this summer (as many said it would after the G7 debacle set the Covid boulder rolling), mainly through the young and unvaccinated and the effects are far reaching, especially for a county that only has 1 hospital.
what would have been the other option thou kieth? Should they have waited till after winter before opening pubs properly ect?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 05:31:22 pm by bpoolrover »

KeithMyath

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13598 on September 13, 2021, 05:49:20 pm by KeithMyath »
I would think it's due to the amount of people that went that area on holiday

We had people in their droves last summer, marginally more this year maybe with an influx of new pop up campsites etc. Cornwall has always been at full capacity for the 6 week holidays. The key point here was sacrificing social distancing / mask wearing at at time of spiralling infections into a county that has had virtually no cases throughout. And for that reason very low levels of natural immunity. Its ripped through Cornwall this summer (as many said it would after the G7 debacle set the Covid boulder rolling), mainly through the young and unvaccinated and the effects are far reaching, especially for a county that only has 1 hospital.
what would have been the other option thou kieth? Should they have waited till after winter before opening pubs properly ect?

Just maintain mask wearing and social distancing rules till we had the population double vaccinated. Usual stuff.

They (Johnson et al) bleet on about hindsight, but those who have dealt best with the pandemic have shown foresight. An ability bereft of this shower.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 05:52:23 pm by KeithMyath »

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13599 on September 13, 2021, 06:28:27 pm by Bentley Bullet »
The government did ask the public to maintain mask-wearing and social distancing rules in situations where it was sensible to do so.

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13600 on September 13, 2021, 06:57:25 pm by bpoolrover »
I would think it's due to the amount of people that went that area on holiday

We had people in their droves last summer, marginally more this year maybe with an influx of new pop up campsites etc. Cornwall has always been at full capacity for the 6 week holidays. The key point here was sacrificing social distancing / mask wearing at at time of spiralling infections into a county that has had virtually no cases throughout. And for that reason very low levels of natural immunity. Its ripped through Cornwall this summer (as many said it would after the G7 debacle set the Covid boulder rolling), mainly through the young and unvaccinated and the effects are far reaching, especially for a county that only has 1 hospital.
what would have been the other option thou kieth? Should they have waited till after winter before opening pubs properly ect?

Just maintain mask wearing and social distancing rules till we had the population double vaccinated. Usual stuff.

They (Johnson et al) bleet on about hindsight, but those who have dealt best with the pandemic have shown foresight. An ability bereft of this shower.
we're not going to get much more of the population vaccinated so let's say we opened it up fully now you would then say it's to close to winter? I think the timing ended up as good as was going to be, unfortunately your area felt it so bad due to the vast amounts of people there

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13601 on September 13, 2021, 07:41:39 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
The government did ask the public to maintain mask-wearing and social distancing rules in situations where it was sensible to do so.

And then Tory MPs proceeded not to wear masks in a crowded House of Commons.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58259604


Words.


Actions.

drfchound

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13602 on September 13, 2021, 07:58:13 pm by drfchound »
According that link posted above some opposition MPs also chose not to wear masks.

hstripes

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13603 on September 13, 2021, 08:08:12 pm by hstripes »
Latest ONS figures - of the over 51,000 deaths of people with Covid Jan-Jul 2021 only 256 of these were people who had been double vaccinated.

Startling statistic which proves the effectiveness of the vaccine.

It also suggests that in the vaccinated the dangers of Covid are actually mild compared to other diseases e.g. flu and pneumonia.

It also raises the question for those in favour of restrictions to limit the spread of the disease - who exactly would we be mainly protecting???
« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 08:11:16 pm by hstripes »

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13604 on September 13, 2021, 08:39:09 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
We'd be protecting everyone. Because if hospitals are dealing with thousands of f**king idiots who refused to get vaccinated, then got ill, there's fewer spaces to deal with me when I get cancer or you when you have need of a bypass operation.

hstripes

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13605 on September 13, 2021, 08:48:54 pm by hstripes »
Yes I take your point. But....

256 deaths in double vaccinated in 7 months. Compare that to the thousands who die every winter from flu. Every winter hospitals are full of with people with flu and other communicable diseases which puts pressure on the NHS making it more difficult to administer other treatments. Why don't we place social and economic restrictions on the country to prevent the spread of communicable diseases every autumn/winter?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 09:08:11 pm by hstripes »

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13606 on September 13, 2021, 09:35:22 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
We are currently seeing 1000 deaths a week. We have 8000 COVID patients in hospital. That is as bad as the worst of flu seasons. But it's happening at the time of year when hospitals are usually playing catch up.

The problem is that if we then go on to have a bad flu season after (or God forbid, concurrent with) this epidemic, the NHS will have been running hot for most of two years. And routine but serious care suffers.

I've got to the point now where I genuinely think any idiot who won't take the vaccine deserves what is coming to them. But the problem is that every one of them that gets seriously ill deprives someone else of treatment. So yes I would bring in vaccine passports and give them a f**king big kick up the arse to grow up and act sensibly.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13607 on September 13, 2021, 09:53:27 pm by Bentley Bullet »
Of course you would, but if Boris had introduced vaccine passports you'd have been dead against them!

wilts rover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13608 on September 13, 2021, 10:09:32 pm by wilts rover »
Yes I take your point. But....

256 deaths in double vaccinated in 7 months. Compare that to the thousands who die every winter from flu. Every winter hospitals are full of with people with flu and other communicable diseases which puts pressure on the NHS making it more difficult to administer other treatments. Why don't we place social and economic restrictions on the country to prevent the spread of communicable diseases every autumn/winter?

You are comparing apples and pears.

The figures from Jan-Jul are before everyone was fully vaccinated and with restrictions in place. How can you say some of the other 51000 would not also have died even if they had been vaccinated?

Actually there are now more people dying than non-vaccinated. This from the BMJ:

More vaccinated people are dying of the delta variant of covid than unvaccinated people, according to a recent report from Public Health England. The report shows that 489 of 742 people (65.9%) who died of the delta variant within 28 days of a positive covid test between 1 February 2021 and 2 August 2021, had received at least one dose of the vaccine. 54.1% (402 of 742) had received both doses. This seems like an alarming set of statistics, but with an imperfect vaccine and high vaccination coverage, it is exactly what we would expect.

Because you are more likley to die from covid if you have underlying health issues - and you are more likley to be been vaccinated too - as explained in the rest of the article:

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/25/significant-proportions-of-people-admitted-to-hospital-or-dying-from-covid-19-in-england-are-vaccinated-this-doesnt-mean-the-vaccines-dont-work/

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13609 on September 14, 2021, 04:23:26 pm by bpoolrover »
26k positive cases today so again the numbers surprisingly coming down

wilts rover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13610 on September 14, 2021, 06:12:01 pm by wilts rover »
26k positive cases today so again the numbers surprisingly coming down

Good news.

In other news - Current wave of infections may not peak until December modellers predict

https://twitter.com/BHheadlines/status/1437815669303615490

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13611 on September 14, 2021, 06:46:42 pm by bpoolrover »
26k positive cases today so again the numbers surprisingly coming down

Good news.

In other news - Current wave of infections may not peak until December modellers predict

https://twitter.com/BHheadlines/status/1437815669303615490
current wave may not peak till next April, I've got about as much chance of being right as them it's pure guesswork

wilts rover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13612 on September 14, 2021, 08:09:52 pm by wilts rover »
26k positive cases today so again the numbers surprisingly coming down

Good news.

In other news - Current wave of infections may not peak until December modellers predict

https://twitter.com/BHheadlines/status/1437815669303615490
current wave may not peak till next April, I've got about as much chance of being right as them it's pure guesswork
Perhaps you should be a government advisor than bpool.

The government has three choices. The listen to what their modellers are saying and put measures in place to make sure it DOESNT happen - or at least lessen the effects of it happening. They ignoe their modellers, cross their fingers and make it up as they go along. Or they listen to you.

Personally I think they should ignore the last one - but thats not based on anything other than you not being a professor of scientific modelling.

hstripes

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13613 on September 14, 2021, 08:11:33 pm by hstripes »
BST - I fully agree that where hospitals are badly stretched or at risk of becoming so, so that other serious medical procedures are being at risk of being cancelled then restrictions are required. Perhaps by area where necessary. But where this isn't the case should restrictions be imposed where we're just helping the f*cking idiots who don't give a toss about helping others?

I would support vaccine passports, a Biden type system re testing unvaccinated workers plus ban those not jabbed from leaving the country. All to encourage vaccination, as much as to reduce spread, to help stop the scenario you outline of the NHS becoming badly overwhelmed. This should be done ahead/in preference to putting social restrictions on the rest of us who are not f*cking idiots IMO.

Wilts - only 256 double-vaccinated people dying with Covid in 7 months whilst it has still been circulating is an incredible statistic - yes regardless of the fact that of the 51,000 who have died in that time many were early in the year before any were double jabbed. Interesting that the BMJ data varies so differently from the ONS I'm quoting??

Note of the 256 only 49 were not deemed extremely clinically vulnerable (i.e. the sort of people sadly so very ill that catching the common cold would likely be deadly). Only 49 deaths of healthy double vaccinated individuals in 7 months of Covid circulating out of a population of 66.5million. Underlines just how incredibly effective these vaccines are.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 09:31:32 pm by hstripes »

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13614 on September 14, 2021, 09:46:47 pm by bpoolrover »
26k positive cases today so again the numbers surprisingly coming down

Good news.

In other news - Current wave of infections may not peak until December modellers predict

https://twitter.com/BHheadlines/status/1437815669303615490
current wave may not peak till next April, I've got about as much chance of being right as them it's pure guesswork
Perhaps you should be a government advisor than bpool.

The government has three choices. The listen to what their modellers are saying and put measures in place to make sure it DOESNT happen - or at least lessen the effects of it happening. They ignoe their modellers, cross their fingers and make it up as they go along. Or they listen to you.

Personally I think they should ignore the last one - but thats not based on anything other than you not being a professor of scientific modelling.
perhaps you should be wilts many people have quoted what scientists have said about what will happen and very few have been right, could you give me your expert view why the ones you have used will be correct?

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13615 on September 14, 2021, 10:06:24 pm by bpoolrover »
Thru the winter months I'm sure masks will come back in and vaccine passports for certain things you could tell that from what he said today, they might be right they might not be I just take the predictions with a pinch of salt now no matter which scientists say then sorry if i sounded harsh just trying to be positive

albie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13616 on September 14, 2021, 11:15:07 pm by albie »
Sage now ringing the warning bell at Bozo;
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/14/bring-in-measures-soon-or-risk-7000-daily-covid-cases-sage-warns

Old tin ear will do his usual, bullshit to the max and faff around until far too late.....then try to shut the stable door too late again.

Depressing  I know, but on past form!

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13617 on September 14, 2021, 11:22:01 pm by SydneyRover »
Just read that article myself Albie and thought the same. Atm there are around 6.6million over 16s not vaccinated plus all those under 16. Even though the vax program has been an unrivalled success it's a lot of potential spreaders running around. And we know fully vaccinated people can spread and die from it.

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13618 on September 14, 2021, 11:59:37 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
I'm not worried about covid, I'm worried about other viruses and infections.  I've had 3 or 4 different things over the last 6 weeks now and it's way earlier than most years. It's having a clear impact and that's the bigger concern for me now not covid.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13619 on September 15, 2021, 11:11:48 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Javid was on R4 this morning. This from the BBC website.

And here's more from the health secretary, who was asked on BBC Radio 4's Today programme why the government isn't "going hard and going early" by bringing back coronavirus restrictions to prevent a winter spike in cases.

Sajid Javid says we should all recognise the impact that the toughest coronavirus measures had on other health problems, particularly undiagnosed cancer and heart disease.


What the actual f**k? He's saying lockdowns caused the backlog in the NHS being able to provide treatment for non-COVID illness. See, I thought the reason was because hospitals were inundated with COVID emergencies because we twice let outbreaks get totally out of control.

But that's Javid. Barely on nodding terms with objective truth.

 

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