Coronavirus

[DonnyOsmond]

Any reason you didnt move out of this country when you had the chance, you quite clearly hate it

Doesn't sound like he hates the UK to me.

[Bristol Red Rover]

There's no point in a vaccine for THIS virus. The vaccine angle is a mindless exercise unless it's going to be sold as a pointless but profitable mass vaccination across the world, or if they think they can adapt what they have for future versions of covid19.

That seems a bit too quick to say. As you say we don't know a lot. We don't know how long immunity lasts (I have only seen animal tests at this stage - and even those are not longitudinal, which is really what you need). For Other coronaviruses (such as the common cold) we know people do not build up immunity for long. Until we know how long people have immunity for we can't say anything about the usefulness of a vaccine.

Maybe a bit quick But no vaccine for SARS yet, nor Common Cold - both more like this than Influenza - so really, the chances of a vaccine soon are slim.

As for the length of immunity from a vaccine, I think you can say that's likely to be akin to the natural immunity from the virus or less (as is the case with measles for eg). "Immunity" is one thing, "resistance" is another. Resistance is what we get to a type of virus as opposed to the specific variation in the case of immunity. This is the big positive we should be watching for, it's something that will protect generations of people, and like other immunities, can be passed from mother to child, more so if breast fed.

Immunity may well be long lasting, no reason to doubt that yet - unless you're about to sell a "vaccine" or are wanting funding for one.

Realistically, what we are likely to see in the guise of a "vaccine" is some kind of medication that effects an immune response, not an actual vaccine. The overactivity of the immune response in some is the key proplem with this virus, so that is what will be targetted. Side effects? Watch for that, it WILL be under reported.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr

There is a very big difference between hating the country and disliking some of the people in the country.

It's a common misconception to equate criticism with lack of patriotism.

For example, I am deeply proud of our country and of being British. That doesn't stop me despising lying bas**rds like Farage or Johnson.

The two things aren't mutually incompatible. In fact I would argue that it is precisely BECAUSE I live the country that I get so angry about unprincipled liars succeeding in it.

[DonnyOsmond]

Is it also unpatriotic to be worried of the breakup of the Union if Scotland or NI choose to leave?

[Ldr]

BST, you at least offer solutions and options instead of others that just incessantly complain and whine

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's also because I love this country that I am so angry that our leaders appeared to sit on their hands for 6 weeks when most of the world was getting their shit together to fight this virus, then have consistently lied since they did start taking it seriously.

It's the folks who shrug their shoulders and ignore that whose love of this country I would question.

I think we deserve better than that. They appear not to care too much.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Top marks to the BBC, for once, with their headline.

"Eddie Large: Comedian dies aged 78 with coronavirus"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-52136768

not "...of coronavirus"

I wonder if he's included in the stats then?

Though I also see:
"Adam Schlesinger: Stacy’s Mom songwriter dies aged 52 with coronavirus"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-52132840
and in the article:

Chris Carrabba, from the band Dashboard Confessional, confirmed his death.
"I am grasping for the right words" he tweeted. "My dear friend Adam Schlesinger has passed away from COVID-19."

Died with or died from? We're likely to rarely know exact circumstances.

[Copps is Magic]

A story of a collective failure.

A 'prestigious scientific panel' had to sit down today (TODAY) with White House staff to say, look, this thing spreads through the air.

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-04-02-20-intl/h_1ddd8f1a1526b889df5a51281b593c4c

[Copps is Magic]

Meanwhile in the US, this is what happens when you let neoliberalism seep into your healthcare system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5NOGAxLBfo

And this is what happens when you let neoliberalism seep into your education system.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/apr/02/hundreds-of-university-staff-made-redundant-due-to-coronavirus?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR3gqcuf7trIjbdLURZofbrfXfBmWmRTPs38aCoh67IVSQk9arUJZShIge4

[foxbat]

One should always try to improve the country they live in

https://newsthump.com/2020/04/02/we-should-be-more-like-germany-say-tabloids-who-were-still-making-achtung-panzer-jokes-three-weeks-ago/

[Nudga]

https://youtu.be/3mflsadDcC0

I found this quite interesting by Dr Thomas Cowan.

[bpoolrover]

Rich Aixill

@badgerthecat2

Thinking back on my stay in hospital last week -

I didn't see anyone from the Tax Payers Alliance or any Brexit Party grifters
nor Free Speech gobshites.

I did see Asian doctors & European nursing staff - none of whom had correct PPE
to wear & all were risking their life

what’s Asian doctors got to do with anything or the brexit party?

[SydneyRover]

Front page of the Guardian has photo of Hancock and saying No10 wants to end lockdown with unproven antibody tests?

[SydneyRover]

''Labour urges UK government to publish findings of 2016 pandemic drill

Conclusions from Exercise Cygnus, a simulation of a major flu pandemic, have never been released''

This probably inspired the bbc ch4 ''Contagion'' documantary in 2017 where dozens of volunteers used phone apps to simulate the spread of a virus and then to track it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3pYGfsq0NKB1bNkrggYJl4h/about-bbc-pandemic

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/02/labour-urges-government-publish-findings-2016-pandemic-drill

[silent majority]

Supermarkets have said Matt Hancock’s claim they will deliver food to those who are self-isolating over coronavirus fears was “totally made up”.

The health secretary said during a Question Time appearance on Thursday that the government was in talks with retailers about home deliveries.

“We are working with the supermarkets to make sure that, if people are self-isolating, then we will be able to get the food and supplies that they need,” he said.

However, supermarket sources have said they have not been involved in discussions.

I certainly wouldn't believe a single word that the major supermarkets issued either.

Having done business with them over numerous years it was confirmed on multiple occasions that they were never interested in the truth, amicable relationships, balanced negotiations, reliable and watertight agreements and a desire to see the right solution.

It was always about power and profit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bizarre figures from France today.

New deaths was 1355 which is the highest any country has recorded for a single day, and 2.6 times higher than the highest France had had previously.

But the number of new confirmed cases was the lowest it has been for nearly a fortnight.

I assume they've swept up some previous deaths that they hadn't recorded before. 

[SydneyRover]

The 1355 includes the numbers below from the worldometer


2116 new cases and 1355 new deaths in France, including 884 fatalities in nursing homes that occurred over a period of several weeks and that were announced only today. NOTE: If and when the French government determines the correct distribution of these additional deaths over time, we will adjust historical data accordingly    [source] [source]

[BillyStubbsTears]

That makes sense. They were posting 471 earlier yesterday which is presumably the new deaths yesterday. In which case, they appear to be getting on top of the increase which is good to see.

[IDM]

Listening to Jeremy Vine on Radio 2..

People messaging in about the government’s response and testing programme etc.. there are loads of folks saying stop criticising the government and that they are doing what they can, and that there are logistical delays to getting measures up and running..

They are completely missing the main point - of course these things take time - that the whole thing should have started sooner..

[drfchound]

TBF mate, some of our posters look for anything they can find to have a bash at the government.
BST is probably the only one who is gracious enough to write about something that happens that is good.

[bpoolrover]

It probably should have started sooner idm but most people are going through enough shit and really can’t be bothered listening to some people simply trying to score political points, when this is all over there is plenty of time to question how they handled it

[IDM]

It’s not about point scoring though, it’s about saving lives..

And yes, this should be looked at later on.  This isn’t a “let’s have a go at the government because they are a different party” thing, it’s about asking questions over competency and honesty.

When you have the government appealing a couple of weeks ago for industry to make ventilators and PPE, and some of those who replied haven’t heard anything back - for example - why’s that.?

When you get the government saying there is lots of PPE available yet hospitals, doctors etc are running short, why’s that.?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bpool.

One of the most strident critics of the Govt's approach has been Jeremy Hunt, so it's scarcely a party political thing. Add to that the damning criticism of the Govt's handling of this so far by papers that are usually devout supporters of this Govt (The Mail, The Telegraph) and you can see that the concerns entirely transcend political boundaries.

You CANNOT take the attitude of "We are in a crisis. We mustn't criticise the Govt. Not when the Govt is making huge strategic errors. If you did, Neville Chamberlain would have remained PM throughout WWII.

[BillyStubbsTears]

What is it about right wing commentators and their absolute insistence on being scientifically illiterate?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1246009381059166209

That t**t, Hitchens has been spreading doubt about the epidemiology for weeks. He's been spreading stupid misconceptions about what the Imperial College team have said, in an effort to undermine them.

Now he re-tweets this stupidity. He's implying that there's nothing to worry about because our deaths so far this year are lower than in previous years. But the data only goes up to 20 March. By which time we had only had 177 CV-19 deaths.

I GUARANTEE you he doesn't tweet anything like this for the data at the end of April or May, when we've had 20-50k CV-19 deaths and those graphs make grim reading.

He is utterly irresponsible and utterly stupid in his insistence that he knows better than people who spend their lives studying these things.

[roversdude]

Question re the masks any of the staff been face fit tested or shown how to wear the mask ?

[BillyStubbsTears]

It IS a very common thing though, for people on the Right to ignore expert advice. Whether it is Republicans in the States disbelieving evolution. Brexit supporters ignoring economic predictions. Climate change denial. And now epidemiology.

I think it's an unwillingness to be told that what you really want the world to be like is not supported by the evidence.

And it's why Give was so smugly telling people not to listen to experts during the Referendum. He prefers you to listen to him and he's terrified that people will listen to neutral expert analysis, because it never, ever supports his political line.

[ChrisBx]

684 new deaths reported.

[albie]

These hospital deaths are the result of infections 2 or 3 weeks ago, reported up to yesterday.
Where we are now remains to be seen.

Hancock came back yesterday after a 7 day break from the time he tested positive.
WHO guidelines recommend a 14 day isolation AFTER the symptoms have ended.

The reason is that a % of those with Covid-19 can continue to shed the virus to others.

The disconnect between these protocols needs to be looked at, and an international agreement reached.

[Copps is Magic]

Now he re-tweets this stupidity. He's implying that there's nothing to worry about because our deaths so far this year are lower than in previous years. But the data only goes up to 20 March. By which time we had only had 177 CV-19 deaths.

It takes around 5 days for a death to be registered also, so you're getting actual deaths from 15th March.

Heres the latest figure from the Netherlnds

If you scroll down a little you will see 'excess mortality'.

At this time of year, there are usually between 2700 and 3000 deaths per week. The most recent mortality figures in the Netherlands show that some 870 and 1181 more people died in the week between 19 and 25 March 2020 than expected in this week.

Just to punctuate that, 1487 of people have died in total here. So its likely there is a massive underreporting of deaths with covid-19. From what I have read from Italy it may also be the same.

Hitchin is a cretin anyway.

[Bristol Red Rover]

..... when we've had 20-50k CV-19 deaths...

Like with a bad year of flu you mean?