Coronavirus

[belton rover]

So I'm guessing Belton's been on another one if his rants.

Let me have a wild guess.

He kicked off this entire exchange a few days ago with his accusation of me lying about a post I made. But that's been categorically demonstrated to be a false accusation.

I assume in all his posts today, he's not once done the adult thing: held his hand up and apologised?

How do you know I haven’t apologised? You don’t read my posts.

[belton rover]

BST, why is it only people who oppose your views that rant? Don't you rant? Didn't TommyToes Rant in his posts today?

BB.

I don't mind people giving me considered reasons why they disagree with me.

Belton didn't do that. He wrongly accused me of lying. .

I assume you can see the difference?

You wrote that the BBC had just put up that graph. You even knew what time they put it up. You probably knew when they had originally put it up, but, as I doubt anyone scours the BBC site looking for scandal like you do, you didn’t expect anyone to point out your misleading statement. Additionally, it wasn’t ‘small print’ at all.

Perhaps upon reflection, calling you a liar may have been an over reaction, and I regret that, for which I do apologise.

What I should have said is that your post was very misleading in an attempt to yet again ridicule a news outlet that you detest, and force that opinion upon others.
Like you do.

But you wouldn’t have been happy with that either, would you?

[normal rules]

For the pig headed out there. His words not mine.

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/man-who-snubbed-covid-jab-6454087?fbclid=IwAR2iKRj1LbbqdNNu-kk8YKhfyDZhHgKUYKhH0bHp4aCH5fO8ehOmU2SObHY

[ravenrover]

RR.  Who is to blame for what?

Crikey BB didn't think I'd have to qualify that, you said in your post the BST blames the Govt for every predicament throughout this pandemic so I am asking you if not The Govt then who is to blame? Clear?

Yes, BST does blame the government for every predicament throughout this pandemic. He's wrong, of course. Had he offered his pandemic expertise to the government instead of hiding away his rants on a third division off-topic football forum, he might have gotten his way and pleased the other half of the population who wanted restrictions, at the expense of the half that didn't. so he would still have been to blame according to half the country.

So answer my question BB  you say BST is wrong, then who is to blame?

[Bentley Bullet]

ravenrover. Blame the government for what? Do you mean to blame it for going against half of the country's population who want restrictions or the other half who don't?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB
1) The real figures are nothing like 50/50.

2) The job of a Govt in a national crisis is to lead. Not to weigh up public opinion.

3) That said, this is a perfect example of something where public opinion has consistently been on the side of measures to control the outbreaks, while Govt has been constitently behind the curve. Make your own call on why that is.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST. Why is it only you who knows the real figures?

The job of the government is to lead, but while there are always people who, like you, know better than them purely through the benefit of hindsight, there will always be government blame.

[Bentley Bullet]

By the way, when I said half of the country I meant as in two halves of a different opinion, meaning two sides, not necessarily two halves equally split.

[ravenrover]

BB some classic whataboutery going on here. You said BST is wrong for blaming the Govt for every predicament during this pandemic, the very simple question I an asking is if not The Government then who? You must have an answer if you say BST is wrong

[Bentley Bullet]

ravenrover. That's a silly question seeing as I haven't put much emphasis on blame from anyone! I could use hindsight and blame the government as BST has, but that would be an unfair advantage seeing as hindsight wasn't available to the government at the time of decision making!

So, yes, BST IS wrong to blame the Govt.

[ravenrover]

Oh so is it just because it's BST blaming the Govt that you say he's wrong, OK I get it now

[roversdude]

Latest from Zoe

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/omicron-spread-slows-but-cases-hit-vulnerable-over-75s?utm_medium=email&utm_source=zoe_covid_study&utm_campaign=7_january_2022_GB

[BillyStubbsTears]

Quite clear now that there's an increase in daily deaths, corresponding to the increase  in cases that started about 3 weeks ago, and the increase in cases in hospitals that started 10 days or so after that.

The 7 day average of deaths by date of death was down to 108 by the week before Xmas and it had been falling steadily since late September. By New Year's Eve, it was up to 130. Fortunately the speed that the deaths are increasing is not as high as the rate that new cases and new cases in hospitals has gone up, but it's not zero either. Looks like the trend in daily deaths is going to rise up towards 200 again over this month.

[River Don]

An increase in deaths was expected though because of the sheer number of infections.

The better news is, it looks like infections have peaked.

[drfchound]

By the way, when I said half of the country I meant as in two halves of a different opinion, meaning two sides, not necessarily two halves equally split.

BB, you are correct in saying the split isn’t in two equal halves but some significant employers are demanding that the government doesn’t lock us down again.
The travel and hospitality sectors, which include sport of course, are desperate to keep going.

That’s the trouble with being in government, those that voted for someone else will always find a reason to complain .

[Ldr]

Quite clear now that there's an increase in daily deaths, corresponding to the increase  in cases that started about 3 weeks ago, and the increase in cases in hospitals that started 10 days or so after that.

The 7 day average of deaths by date of death was down to 108 by the week before Xmas and it had been falling steadily since late September. By New Year's Eve, it was up to 130. Fortunately the speed that the deaths are increasing is not as high as the rate that new cases and new cases in hospitals has gone up, but it's not zero either. Looks like the trend in daily deaths is going to rise up towards 200 again over this month.

I fear we are now spreading in an acute setting

[BillyStubbsTears]

RD
I'd be very cautious in concluding that cases have peaked.

The headline figures are based on cases reported yesterday, but cover deaths that actually occurred over several days. When you look at the figures by the date the deaths actually occurred, the figures for 1-4 Jan are all higher than those from 7 days earlier, and will probably continue going highe for a few days yet as more deaths get reported. Hopefully we're not far from the peak, but I doubt we are there yet.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Quite clear now that there's an increase in daily deaths, corresponding to the increase  in cases that started about 3 weeks ago, and the increase in cases in hospitals that started 10 days or so after that.

The 7 day average of deaths by date of death was down to 108 by the week before Xmas and it had been falling steadily since late September. By New Year's Eve, it was up to 130. Fortunately the speed that the deaths are increasing is not as high as the rate that new cases and new cases in hospitals has gone up, but it's not zero either. Looks like the trend in daily deaths is going to rise up towards 200 again over this month.

I fear we are now spreading in an acute setting

Genuine question Ldr. What does that mean?

[Ldr]

Quite clear now that there's an increase in daily deaths, corresponding to the increase  in cases that started about 3 weeks ago, and the increase in cases in hospitals that started 10 days or so after that.

The 7 day average of deaths by date of death was down to 108 by the week before Xmas and it had been falling steadily since late September. By New Year's Eve, it was up to 130. Fortunately the speed that the deaths are increasing is not as high as the rate that new cases and new cases in hospitals has gone up, but it's not zero either. Looks like the trend in daily deaths is going to rise up towards 200 again over this month.

I fear we are now spreading in an acute setting

Genuine question Ldr. What does that mean?

Spreading within hospitals

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ta.

That's inevitable I guess with such high numbers. And that becomes a major concern if it impairs the health of already very ill people.

[River Don]

RD
I'd be very cautious in concluding that cases have peaked.

The headline figures are based on cases reported yesterday, but cover deaths that actually occurred over several days. When you look at the figures by the date the deaths actually occurred, the figures for 1-4 Jan are all higher than those from 7 days earlier, and will probably continue going highe for a few days yet as more deaths get reported. Hopefully we're not far from the peak, but I doubt we are there yet.

I know I'm looking for signs that it's starting to subside now but some of the experts are starting to reach the same conclusion, here's hoping there isn't too much further to go.

I have a feeling if Omicron continues to surpress the more dangerous varients by the spring, things will be starting to feel a lot more normal.

We just don't want another nasty varient to emerge.

[wilts rover]

By the way, when I said half of the country I meant as in two halves of a different opinion, meaning two sides, not necessarily two halves equally split.

BB, you are correct in saying the split isn’t in two equal halves but some significant employers are demanding that the government doesn’t lock us down again.
The travel and hospitality sectors, which include sport of course, are desperate to keep going.

That’s the trouble with being in government, those that voted for someone else will always find a reason to complain .

Of course those sectors are desperate to keep going - but with 100000's of infection per day they aren't. Hundreds of sports fixtures have been cancelled, pubs, restaraunts, theatres etc are having to close for lack of staff, buses, trains and flights are being cancelled - they aren't even collecing the bins in some areas. Thats without the effect on the NHS. Business owners on the radio are reckoning its costing them £millions' - all without government support.

It's been allowed to grow far, far too high.

[wilts rover]

Quite clear now that there's an increase in daily deaths, corresponding to the increase  in cases that started about 3 weeks ago, and the increase in cases in hospitals that started 10 days or so after that.

The 7 day average of deaths by date of death was down to 108 by the week before Xmas and it had been falling steadily since late September. By New Year's Eve, it was up to 130. Fortunately the speed that the deaths are increasing is not as high as the rate that new cases and new cases in hospitals has gone up, but it's not zero either. Looks like the trend in daily deaths is going to rise up towards 200 again over this month.

I fear we are now spreading in an acute setting

Genuine question Ldr. What does that mean?

Spreading within hospitals

From an optomistic and realistic poster such as yourself - that's worrying.

[drfchound]

By the way, when I said half of the country I meant as in two halves of a different opinion, meaning two sides, not necessarily two halves equally split.

BB, you are correct in saying the split isn’t in two equal halves but some significant employers are demanding that the government doesn’t lock us down again.
The travel and hospitality sectors, which include sport of course, are desperate to keep going.

That’s the trouble with being in government, those that voted for someone else will always find a reason to complain .

Of course those sectors are desperate to keep going - but with 100000's of infection per day they aren't. Hundreds of sports fixtures have been cancelled, pubs, restaraunts, theatres etc are having to close for lack of staff, buses, trains and flights are being cancelled - they aren't even collecing the bins in some areas. Thats without the effect on the NHS. Business owners on the radio are reckoning its costing them £millions' - all without government support.

It's been allowed to grow far, far too high.

I’m not disagreeing with you wilts.
I’m saying that, despite the things you have pointed out, the businesses I mentioned are still desperate not to be shut down.

[wilts rover]

By the way, when I said half of the country I meant as in two halves of a different opinion, meaning two sides, not necessarily two halves equally split.

BB, you are correct in saying the split isn’t in two equal halves but some significant employers are demanding that the government doesn’t lock us down again.
The travel and hospitality sectors, which include sport of course, are desperate to keep going.

That’s the trouble with being in government, those that voted for someone else will always find a reason to complain .

Of course those sectors are desperate to keep going - but with 100000's of infection per day they aren't. Hundreds of sports fixtures have been cancelled, pubs, restaraunts, theatres etc are having to close for lack of staff, buses, trains and flights are being cancelled - they aren't even collecing the bins in some areas. Thats without the effect on the NHS. Business owners on the radio are reckoning its costing them £millions' - all without government support.

It's been allowed to grow far, far too high.

I’m not disagreeing with you wilts.
I’m saying that, despite the things you have pointed out, the businesses I mentioned are still desperate not to be shut down.

Yes agreed hound. But they defacto have been.

I can't see any point in doing anything now, there is far too much in the community, is it 1 in 15 they say today have it, for any measures  to do any good. Lets hope they were right and it will pass through/peak quickly.

[drfchound]

By the way, when I said half of the country I meant as in two halves of a different opinion, meaning two sides, not necessarily two halves equally split.

BB, you are correct in saying the split isn’t in two equal halves but some significant employers are demanding that the government doesn’t lock us down again.
The travel and hospitality sectors, which include sport of course, are desperate to keep going.

That’s the trouble with being in government, those that voted for someone else will always find a reason to complain .

Of course those sectors are desperate to keep going - but with 100000's of infection per day they aren't. Hundreds of sports fixtures have been cancelled, pubs, restaraunts, theatres etc are having to close for lack of staff, buses, trains and flights are being cancelled - they aren't even collecing the bins in some areas. Thats without the effect on the NHS. Business owners on the radio are reckoning its costing them £millions' - all without government support.

It's been allowed to grow far, far too high.

I’m not disagreeing with you wilts.
I’m saying that, despite the things you have pointed out, the businesses I mentioned are still desperate not to be shut down.

Yes agreed hound. But they defacto have been.

I can't see any point in doing anything now, there is far too much in the community, is it 1 in 15 they say today have it, for any measures  to do any good. Lets hope they were right and it will pass through/peak quickly.

We will know soon enough wilts and anyway, as usual, hindsight will be a good indicator.
(Tongue in cheek emoji here).

[Bentley Bullet]

It could be a case that locking down might have just delayed the inevitable. Time might tell, or maybe we'll never really know. A parallel universe running different scenarios would be handy but that being impossible I suppose everybody will have to just take flak from Guardian readers.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So another of my staff has tested +be and will be off all next week. And because he was in contact with him, my antivaxxer staff member now has to isolate for two weeks.

I reckon that's now 13 man weeks we've lost to COVID since the week before Xmas. All on full pay. Not a penny of Govt support.

Welcome to "Living with it."

[roversdude]

So another of my staff has tested +be and will be off all next week. And because he was in contact with him, my antivaxxer staff member now has to isolate for two weeks.

I reckon that's now 13 man weeks we've lost to COVID since the week before Xmas. All on full pay. Not a penny of Govt support.

Welcome to "Living with it."

Genuine question Billy is there nothing they can do to work from home - we adopted a hybrid working system during lockdown one so that once staff were allowed back it was a choice. Appreciate this is not possible across all sectors

[Nudga]

I reckon BST would make them wear a mask on zoom calls because I'm sure some of his staff are traumatised by maskless faces.