Coronavirus

[Sprotyrover]

What surprises me is people are not more happier that some will be able to spend time with loved ones for sometime in the garden after all this time, I for one will be rejoicing that today, maybe that’s being selfish but oh well

Well me and my poor missus will be in lockdown for sometime but at least the family can visit our Garden. Feel for the folks who haven't got one.

[IDM]

What surprises me is people are not more happier that some will be able to spend time with loved ones for sometime in the garden after all this time, I for one will be rejoicing that today, maybe that’s being selfish but oh well

The development is very welcome Bpool, but like much of what the government has said, is flawed.

At the briefing Johnson said you couldn’t go onto someone else’s house.  I clearly heard that.

But later on someone asked about visitors going to the toilet, which seems to be permitted as long as you clean afterwards.

Later still I looked at the report on the bbc website where it says “ While people from different households are still not allowed to meet indoors, you can go through a house to access a garden”

This last detail wasn’t in the PM’s briefing nor in the Q and A afterwards.

So you can’t go inside someone else’s house, but actually you can.?

[IDM]

Wilts, what are your views on Jeremy Corbyn's insistence on carrying on working and attending parliament, despite the rules on over 70's isolating?

BB what are the rules on over 70's isolating?

Bump..

[Bentley Bullet]

Stupid comparison BB.

Corbyn is a senior politician who is clearly an exceptional case. He is choosing to risk HIS health to do his job.

That is not remotely similar to Cummings. Corbyn is putting no-one else at risk, any more than any MP in Westminster is. And Rees Mogg as Leader of the House has decided they are ALL coming back next week, and any that choose not to do for health reasons will not be allowed to contribute to debates or vote.

What would you want Corbyn to do then?

Of course, it's a stupid comparison Billy lad. One's Labour and the other isn't!

No BB

One is a stupid example and the other one isn't.

Well, I know Corbyn was never one of your favourite politicians, and I tend to agree with you about him being a stupid example of one, and he's proved it again by breaking the isolation rules. Surely he's heard the warnings about his high vulnerability but selfishly refuses to heed them. He knows that someone his age can catch the virus easier, so, therefore, is more susceptible to passing it on.

Why hasn't he been charged by the police? There's one rule for them.......

[IDM]

BB - has Corbyn been told to shield himself.?

Has he been required to self-isolate because he has the virus or symptoms showing.?  Or a member of his household.?

If neither, then he is as free to move around as anyone under 70.

Please send a link to a time which states differently.?

[IDM]

“ The government's rules for the lockdown identified groups of "clinically vulnerable" people who should take particular care to minimise contact with anyone outside their household.

They included those aged 70 or over, "regardless of medical conditions".

At the moment, the rules for this group are not different, so they are allowed out to take exercise or can leave their homes to go to work if they cannot work from home, but they are strongly advised to "take particular care".

This group is different from those who are defined as being "clinically extremely vulnerable". That group should be taking "shielding" measures, and include people with particular cancers and severe respiratory conditions such as cystic fibrosis.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52575594

I’ve highlighted the relevant bit for you.  Over 70s should “take particular care”.

[Ldr]

What surprises me is people are not more happier that some will be able to spend time with loved ones for sometime in the garden after all this time, I for one will be rejoicing that today, maybe that’s being selfish but oh well

The development is very welcome Bpool, but like much of what the government has said, is flawed.

At the briefing Johnson said you couldn’t go onto someone else’s house.  I clearly heard that.

But later on someone asked about visitors going to the toilet, which seems to be permitted as long as you clean afterwards.

Later still I looked at the report on the bbc website where it says “ While people from different households are still not allowed to meet indoors, you can go through a house to access a garden”

This last detail wasn’t in the PM’s briefing nor in the Q and A afterwards.

So you can’t go inside someone else’s house, but actually you can.?

https://youtu.be/JqU-a5dT5Qc

13.20 onwards, easy to miss But definitely said.

[Bentley Bullet]

“ The government's rules for the lockdown identified groups of "clinically vulnerable" people who should take particular care to minimise contact with anyone outside their household.

They included those aged 70 or over, "regardless of medical conditions".

At the moment, the rules for this group are not different, so they are allowed out to take exercise or can leave their homes to go to work if they cannot work from home, but they are strongly advised to "take particular care".

This group is different from those who are defined as being "clinically extremely vulnerable". That group should be taking "shielding" measures, and include people with particular cancers and severe respiratory conditions such as cystic fibrosis.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52575594

I’ve highlighted the relevant bit for you.  Over 70s should “take particular care”.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1259043/corbyn-news-latest-MPs-coronavirus-parliament-roger-gale-death-toll-spt

[BillyStubbsTears]

So Corbyn hadn't broken any rules.

Glad we've got that sorted.

Where were we?

[Glyn_Wigley]

“ The government's rules for the lockdown identified groups of "clinically vulnerable" people who should take particular care to minimise contact with anyone outside their household.

They included those aged 70 or over, "regardless of medical conditions".

At the moment, the rules for this group are not different, so they are allowed out to take exercise or can leave their homes to go to work if they cannot work from home, but they are strongly advised to "take particular care".

This group is different from those who are defined as being "clinically extremely vulnerable". That group should be taking "shielding" measures, and include people with particular cancers and severe respiratory conditions such as cystic fibrosis.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52575594

I’ve highlighted the relevant bit for you.  Over 70s should “take particular care”.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1259043/corbyn-news-latest-MPs-coronavirus-parliament-roger-gale-death-toll-spt

That might have been a good response if you'd posted the rules as they were at the time instead of some irrelevant MP's opinion.

[silent majority]

What surprises me is people are not more happier that some will be able to spend time with loved ones for sometime in the garden after all this time, I for one will be rejoicing that today, maybe that’s being selfish but oh well

The development is very welcome Bpool, but like much of what the government has said, is flawed.

At the briefing Johnson said you couldn’t go onto someone else’s house.  I clearly heard that.

But later on someone asked about visitors going to the toilet, which seems to be permitted as long as you clean afterwards.

Later still I looked at the report on the bbc website where it says “ While people from different households are still not allowed to meet indoors, you can go through a house to access a garden”

This last detail wasn’t in the PM’s briefing nor in the Q and A afterwards.

So you can’t go inside someone else’s house, but actually you can.?

I understand the information given at these briefings might not be as detailed as everyone likes, but the briefing documents sent out by Government are quite incredible. The detail they go into, and the sheer length of each of these for each industry is staggering. The documents we've had that cover all aspects of our business  takes some absorbing to the point where we have a weekly industry catch up so that we can ensure we haven't missed anything.

I do get frustrated with some posters IDM, not necessarily you, who look for fault in everything and yet fail to see the good stuff because they dont want to.

[Bentley Bullet]

So Corbyn hadn't broken any rules.

Glad we've got that sorted.

Where were we?

You were telling us that people will follow Cummings' example and will cause deaths. I'm telling you people will follow Jezza's example and it will cause deaths.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So Corbyn hadn't broken any rules.

Glad we've got that sorted.

Where were we?

You were telling us that people will follow Cummings' example and will cause deaths. I'm telling you people will follow Jezza's example and it will cause deaths.

Cummings' example has been to unilaterally choose to flout a RULE that put other people at risk. And then lie about it.

Corbyn has chosen to not follow one part of GUIDANCE, and in doing so he has put no-one at risk.

[Bentley Bullet]

So, if that's the case, you say Cummings' example of flouting the rules will cause deaths. I say Corbyn's choice of not to follow one part of guidance will cause deaths.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Because

Cummings is sending out the message that when you are symptomatic, you can choose to interpret the RULES in a way that suits your particular circumstances.

And he is winding up people (you'll have read examples in here) who themselves do not want to follow the Govt RULES. On top of that, by demonstrably lying when he spoke to the nation, he gave a clear direction that if you can break the RULES (he did) and lie when you are talking about it (he did) then you can get away with it (he did).

Corbyn, not symptomatic, chose to attend his workplace. And when doing so, conspicuously and publicly adhered to social distancing requirements.

[wilts rover]

BB - will people using what Cummings did as an excuse to flout rules cause deaths?

[selby]

On April 3rd  Tahir Ali a labour MP attended a funeral with over 100 mourners which was definitely against the rules. Not much been said about that Billy.
  In fact Billy he really cocked a snook to government and Birmingham City council advice, he was not a family member when the council had set a limit of 6 family members and went to two funerals on the same day.
  He is also from the at risk section being Asian and looks well overweight.
   A great early example that was hushed up and got little notice on this thread by the usual throwing their arms and shouting their disgust brigade. Why didn't Starmer sack him?

[DonnyOsmond]

Because

Cummings is sending out the message that when you are symptomatic, you can choose to interpret the RULES in a way that suits your particular circumstances.

And he is winding up people (you'll have read examples in here) who themselves do not want to follow the Govt RULES. On top of that, by demonstrably lying when he spoke to the nation, he gave a clear direction that if you can break the RULES (he did) and lie when you are talking about it (he did) then you can get away with it (he did).

Corbyn, not symptomatic, chose to attend his workplace. And when doing so, conspicuously and publicly adhered to social distancing requirements.

Also different times. One was out when told to Stay Home. The other was out while we're told to Stay Alert. Hopefully he was alert.

[Filo]

On April 3rd  Tahir Ali a labour MP attended a funeral with over 100 mourners which was definitely against the rules. Not much been said about that Billy.

He apologised, he never made the lockdown rules

Cummings hasn’t apologised, he made the lockdown rules

Theres a massive difference

And for the record I don’t condone Tahir Ali either

[wilts rover]

On April 3rd  Tahir Ali a labour MP attended a funeral with over 100 mourners which was definitely against the rules. Not much been said about that Billy.

Did he? You sure about that....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-52154327

[IDM]

What surprises me is people are not more happier that some will be able to spend time with loved ones for sometime in the garden after all this time, I for one will be rejoicing that today, maybe that’s being selfish but oh well

The development is very welcome Bpool, but like much of what the government has said, is flawed.

At the briefing Johnson said you couldn’t go onto someone else’s house.  I clearly heard that.

But later on someone asked about visitors going to the toilet, which seems to be permitted as long as you clean afterwards.

Later still I looked at the report on the bbc website where it says “ While people from different households are still not allowed to meet indoors, you can go through a house to access a garden”

This last detail wasn’t in the PM’s briefing nor in the Q and A afterwards.

So you can’t go inside someone else’s house, but actually you can.?

I understand the information given at these briefings might not be as detailed as everyone likes, but the briefing documents sent out by Government are quite incredible. The detail they go into, and the sheer length of each of these for each industry is staggering. The documents we've had that cover all aspects of our business  takes some absorbing to the point where we have a weekly industry catch up so that we can ensure we haven't missed anything.

I do get frustrated with some posters IDM, not necessarily you, who look for fault in everything and yet fail to see the good stuff because they dont want to.

There is a difference between specific details aimed at businesses and the briefing given to the public.  The public as a whole needs clear information which isn’t confusing, but they also need enough information.

When something happens as the Cummings issue, it shows that there is a disparity between what the public should really know, and what they have been told.

[drfcdrfc]

On April 3rd  Tahir Ali a labour MP attended a funeral with over 100 mourners which was definitely against the rules. Not much been said about that Billy.
  In fact Billy he really cocked a snook to government and Birmingham City council advice, he was not a family member when the council had set a limit of 6 family members and went to two funerals on the same day.
  He is also from the at risk section being Asian and looks well overweight.
   A great early example that was hushed up and got little notice on this thread by the usual throwing their arms and shouting their disgust brigade. Why didn't Starmer sack him?

100? Did you hear that on the radio?

[Bentley Bullet]

BB - will people using what Cummings did as an excuse to flout rules cause deaths?

I believe it's possible that some people are of the mentality to say f**k this if people in the public spotlight can flaunt the rules, I'm gonna do it and if I get it and give others it's their fault!

That could occur as a result of both the Cummings and the Corbyn situation.

[wilts rover]

BB - will people using what Cummings did as an excuse to flout rules cause deaths?

I believe it's possible that some people are of the mentality to say f**k this if people in the public spotlight can flaunt the rules, I'm gonna do it and if I get it and give others it's their fault!

That could occur as a result of both the Cummings and the Corbyn situation.

You believe it will happen if someone follows the rules or if someone doesn't follow the rules. Glad you have cleared that up for us.

[IDM]

“ The government's rules for the lockdown identified groups of "clinically vulnerable" people who should take particular care to minimise contact with anyone outside their household.

They included those aged 70 or over, "regardless of medical conditions".

At the moment, the rules for this group are not different, so they are allowed out to take exercise or can leave their homes to go to work if they cannot work from home, but they are strongly advised to "take particular care".

This group is different from those who are defined as being "clinically extremely vulnerable". That group should be taking "shielding" measures, and include people with particular cancers and severe respiratory conditions such as cystic fibrosis.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52575594

I’ve highlighted the relevant bit for you.  Over 70s should “take particular care”.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1259043/corbyn-news-latest-MPs-coronavirus-parliament-roger-gale-death-toll-spt

That article is incorrect - over 70s were never told to self isolate, they should only take particular care.

The article you link to, implies that it is Gale telling Corbyn that over 70s MPs “must” self isolate, ie Gale’s opinion or interpretation.

If over 70s MPs were supposed to self isolate, then at least the leader of the house would have instructed them so.?

My personal view is that MPs should work from home anyway, regardless of age.  I don’t particularly like Corbyn either but unless he has underlying health issues he doesn’t need to be shielding.

[Bentley Bullet]

BB - will people using what Cummings did as an excuse to flout rules cause deaths?

I believe it's possible that some people are of the mentality to say f**k this if people in the public spotlight can flaunt the rules, I'm gonna do it and if I get it and give others it's their fault!

That could occur as a result of both the Cummings and the Corbyn situation.

You believe it will happen if someone follows the rules or if someone doesn't follow the rules. Glad you have cleared that up for us.

Nothing to clear up in that respect owd lad. What I hope has been cleared up is the fact that  you are most certainly selective in your self-righteousness.

[IDM]

What surprises me is people are not more happier that some will be able to spend time with loved ones for sometime in the garden after all this time, I for one will be rejoicing that today, maybe that’s being selfish but oh well

The development is very welcome Bpool, but like much of what the government has said, is flawed.

At the briefing Johnson said you couldn’t go onto someone else’s house.  I clearly heard that.

But later on someone asked about visitors going to the toilet, which seems to be permitted as long as you clean afterwards.

Later still I looked at the report on the bbc website where it says “ While people from different households are still not allowed to meet indoors, you can go through a house to access a garden”

This last detail wasn’t in the PM’s briefing nor in the Q and A afterwards.

So you can’t go inside someone else’s house, but actually you can.?

https://youtu.be/JqU-a5dT5Qc

13.20 onwards, easy to miss But definitely said.

Fair enough - I stand corrected - definitely easy to miss. 

However in that same part Johnson failed to say that visitors to your garden could use the toilet as long as surfaces were cleaned after each use.

That relevant point needed a journalist to ask.

[IDM]

Wilts, what are your views on Jeremy Corbyn's insistence on carrying on working and attending parliament, despite the rules on over 70's isolating?

BB what are the rules on over 70's isolating?

Bump..

Still waiting.  You gave us a newspaper report of one MP saying over 70s (MPs) should isolate, but that was just his opinion.

Got anything else.?

[wilts rover]

BB - will people using what Cummings did as an excuse to flout rules cause deaths?

I believe it's possible that some people are of the mentality to say f**k this if people in the public spotlight can flaunt the rules, I'm gonna do it and if I get it and give others it's their fault!

That could occur as a result of both the Cummings and the Corbyn situation.

You believe it will happen if someone follows the rules or if someone doesn't follow the rules. Glad you have cleared that up for us.

Nothing to clear up in that respect owd lad. What I hope has been cleared up is the fact that  you are most certainly selective in your self-righteousness.

What has not been cleared up is which rule it is that you say Corbyn has broken? You have been asked to state it.

And I haven't been selective in anything - it's you stating falsehoods not me - I'm just making you look foolish by pointing them out.

[wilts rover]

Apologies IDM I didn't see your post before I posted mine. Not that he is going to reply as he has ignored the question at least three times today.