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Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 121701 times)

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Ldr

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  • Posts: 1273
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6060 on July 07, 2020, 04:11:37 PM by Ldr »
Johnson is a dick IDM I think everyone appreciates that, I wish the conservatives had chosen Hunt i did vote for him when I was a member, I wish Labour had had Starmer pre election but we are where we are, the past cannot be changed despite what ppl post

big fat yorkshire pudding

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  • Posts: 10414
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6061 on July 07, 2020, 04:30:53 PM by big fat yorkshire pudding »
BFYP

He raises it because of the reasons I gave above.

Much of his support is based, not on a rational critique of what he says. If it was, he wouldn't get a job running a chuck wagon.

What he does is to rely on people who don't think too deeply, and he plants soundbites in their heads.

Take back control
Get Brexit done.
Jobs, jobs, jobs.

This one is the same.

Not my fault.
Care homes' fault.

This isn't a mistake. It is precisely how he operates. You must realise that he had absolutely zero regard for what the truth is in any given situation. He simply says whatever he needs to say to make the impression he wants to make. And he relies on his supporters being too thick, or detached, or partisan to care.

I'd suggest it's more about a planned change to the way care homes etc are run, that'll be his policy play next (it would actually be the right one but his tone is all wrong).

BillyStubbsTears

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  • Posts: 23318
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6062 on July 07, 2020, 06:22:41 PM by BillyStubbsTears »
Dear world

People are human
Mistakes get made
Hindsight wins all arguments
Shit happens
Deal with it and enjoy your lives

The "La-La I'm not listening" approach to political engagement.

No-one must ever be held to account for anything.

You bite every time mate 😉

You ever heard of the Rule of Goats?

ravenrover

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  • Posts: 4991
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6063 on July 07, 2020, 06:59:28 PM by ravenrover »
The comment regarding blame on the care sector is just the tip of the iceburg. It has just set the scene for Boris' not my fault response to the consequences of  his and his Governments disaster in controlling the pandemic.

BillyStubbsTears

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  • Posts: 23318
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6064 on July 08, 2020, 11:42:16 PM by BillyStubbsTears »
I was impressed with Sunak's initial response to this crisis, but as an employer, I'm fuming angry with today's display.

He has flipped from serious, radical approaches to securing the economy to the headline-grabbing fluff.

The £1000 per furloughed worker taken back on is a drop in the ocean and will make bugger all difference to companies deciding whether to re-employ the 9,000,000 workers currently furloughed. It is a policy designed to give the appearance of doing something while not actually doing anything.

And that bloody money off eating out...Jesus wept!

This Harvard economics professor sums it up. (Pigouvian taxes being taxes that you apply to prevent activity that is harmful to society.)

https://twitter.com/jasonfurman/status/1280877687683395585

We needed some vision today on how to start digging ourselves out of an economic mess worse that the end of WWII and worse than the Great Depression. Instead we got £10 Nandos vouchers. Which I guarantee will be splashed all over the Mail and Express and Sun tomorrow. Which was the purpose of the announcement.

Filo

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  • Posts: 23800
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6065 on July 09, 2020, 08:05:17 AM by Filo »
I was impressed with Sunak's initial response to this crisis, but as an employer, I'm fuming angry with today's display.

He has flipped from serious, radical approaches to securing the economy to the headline-grabbing fluff.

The £1000 per furloughed worker taken back on is a drop in the ocean and will make bugger all difference to companies deciding whether to re-employ the 9,000,000 workers currently furloughed. It is a policy designed to give the appearance of doing something while not actually doing anything.

And that bloody money off eating out...Jesus wept!

This Harvard economics professor sums it up. (Pigouvian taxes being taxes that you apply to prevent activity that is harmful to society.)

https://twitter.com/jasonfurman/status/1280877687683395585

We needed some vision today on how to start digging ourselves out of an economic mess worse that the end of WWII and worse than the Great Depression. Instead we got £10 Nandos vouchers. Which I guarantee will be splashed all over the Mail and Express and Sun tomorrow. Which was the purpose of the announcement.

Sunak’s initial response  in the early days contained the phrase, “ We will do what it takes for as long as it takes” that has now been dropped pretty sharpish, and without saying it, itis now f**k all you lot that have lost your jobs you’ve had enough dosh

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6066 on July 09, 2020, 01:47:21 PM by BillyStubbsTears »
This would be horrifying if we weren't running out of space to be horrified at how appallingly we have mismanaged this crisis.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/how-government-blindfolded-frontline-public-18566511.amp?__twitter_impression=true

We have a well established, well functioning system of managing and suppressing local outbreaks of diseases. I remember when I caught salmonella, the GP going into detailed questions on where I'd been and what I'd eaten, who I'd seen. He noted it all and told me it had to be logged because it was a Notifiable Illness and there might need to be further steps by the local public health body if an outbreak occurred.

So why the f**k haven't we been using this system to monitor and control CV-19 outbreaks? It appears that local.public health bodies are still not being told the names and addresses of people who have tested positive, because...computer says "Confidential".

And yet

The testing is being conducted by private labs. Private labs that DO know the names and addresses of those who have tested positive. But the local.officials whose very role is to handle this confidential data to protect the public are not allowed to have it.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 01:49:26 PM by BillyStubbsTears »

albie

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  • Posts: 1821
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6067 on July 09, 2020, 02:53:37 PM by albie »
It is because the data is valuable.

If you want to market a public service to the private sector, then the more incentive to purchase that you can bundle with the package, the more interest you will get.

Existing T+T systems within the NHS, such as the sexual health clinics etc, are focussed upon clinical outputs.

Creating a parallel system for re-sale to third parties needs to offer value that can be monetised. So the new system must show the prospective buyer a route to future profit from any purchase.

Commodity value displaces public service provision as the first order priority.
Sorry if this upsets one or two, but there we are!

River Don

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  • Posts: 4523
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6068 on July 09, 2020, 03:25:31 PM by River Don »
Another 4000 jobs to go. Boots this time.

It's becoming clear that CV19 is a massive kick in the groin to the retail and service sector. That's seriously concerning when the economy is so dependant on services. I think structural damage is inevitable, you can't just throw money at it, it doesn't matter if it's cheap to eat out, or go down the pub or visit a cinema. If people don't feel safe doing it, they won't. It's all another serious blow to the high street.

The problem is what will all these shop assistants, waiters, bar staff, beauty therapists, nail technicians and so on do instead?

I don't think it's just a matter of putting life on hold whilst a vaccine comes along, for a couple of reasons. There is no guarantee an effective vaccine is coming along anytime soon. The other is, I think for many it's just speeding up a process that was already underway. People don't need to go out to the shops, retail is already going online. Once the change is made I don't think business will just go back to the way it was.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 03:37:09 PM by River Don »

drfchound

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  • Posts: 17490
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6069 on July 09, 2020, 04:45:41 PM by drfchound »
I don’t know why people are surprised by the potential closure of businesses or the losing of job positions.
It has been obvious for quite a few weeks that this was going to happen.
The average high street has been going downhill for years, unless you want to visit a charity shop of course.
I heard a man on the news this morning speaking about continuing with airport expansion, saying it is just a matter of time before the aviation industry “gets back to normal”.
I think cloud cuckoo land is more relevant to that suggestion than getting planes into  the clouds on a regular basis.

BillyStubbsTears

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  • Posts: 23318
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6070 on July 09, 2020, 05:01:22 PM by BillyStubbsTears »
I don’t know why people are surprised by the potential closure of businesses or the losing of job positions.
It has been obvious for quite a few weeks that this was going to happen.
The average high street has been going downhill for years, unless you want to visit a charity shop of course.
I heard a man on the news this morning speaking about continuing with airport expansion, saying it is just a matter of time before the aviation industry “gets back to normal”.
I think cloud cuckoo land is more relevant to that suggestion than getting planes into  the clouds on a regular basis.


Entirely depends on how we manage the economics of the recovery. It isn't written in stone that recovery must be slow and weak. But it WILL be if Governments don't throw everything in their locker at supporting the economy until it is firing again.

wilts rover

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  • Posts: 6626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6071 on July 09, 2020, 05:22:04 PM by wilts rover »
Worth a read. Coronavirus - The inside story of how UK's 'chaotic' testing regime 'broke all the rules'

If you think you couldn't make up how the government engineered the testing figures so they showed a gradual increase for the tv press briefings - why not, they did.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-the-inside-story-of-how-uks-chaotic-testing-regime-broke-all-the-rules-12022566


ravenrover

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  • Posts: 4991
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6072 on July 09, 2020, 05:52:44 PM by ravenrover »
How many on here have bought goods online during the pandemic? How many will continue to buy online from now on?
Other than a supermarket/foodstore or Chemist how many have been anywhere near a shop?
My wife has already daid she is going no whrte neat a town centre and will continue to buy online, she already uses Ocado for her weekly shop but intends to buy more things online.

wilts rover

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  • Posts: 6626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6073 on July 09, 2020, 06:33:37 PM by wilts rover »
I have been to Wicks twice in the past month for timber to mend the shed and have been going to Aldi once a week from the start - thats it.

I have probably bought less from the big online retailers than I did before the pandemic. Stuff for my bikes I have always purchased from the online cycling shops as I dont have a local one.

I used to buy a few lps from Amazon but haven't used them once - I have probably bought more from my local shop in the past three months than I have in the past 10 years, artists own sites, record labels or discogs (which is an individual market place).

wilts rover

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  • Posts: 6626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6074 on July 09, 2020, 06:38:41 PM by wilts rover »

redarmy82

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  • Posts: 879
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6075 on July 09, 2020, 07:13:47 PM by redarmy82 »
I will refer back to my previous points.

Come the end of this year, millions will be unemployed who cannot afford to pay their rent, bills and buy food on Universal Credit. What happens to these people when they're kicked out of their homes and can't feed their families? Society will break down, and you will have mass looting of supermarkets, and levels of crime we've never seen before.

Myself, i'm furloughed and out of a job come October. Since knowing this, i've applied for more than 80 jobs. Only two replies from those jobs, and zero interviews.

This country is going to be on its knees very soon.

River Don

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  • Posts: 4523
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6076 on July 09, 2020, 07:44:28 PM by River Don »
My other half used to work on a Boots beauty counter. I'm not surprised to see jobs being cut. The problem was the brands seemed to be more focussed on selling online and through TV outlets like QVC. Often customers would come in and say they wanted a discount they had seen on QVC. The poor ladies on the counter didn't have those offers, they were being put out of business by the very brands they were working for.

Look at the cinemas. How many people have bought Netflicks in the last few months? Even if the Coronavirus wasn't around I bet there is a good proportion who feel they don't need the cinema now.

There have been a lot of people who will have discovered the joys of online shopping during this crisis. Or bought a Nespresso machine instead of using the Costa coffee shop.

We can see this cropping up in the figures now, there are a lot of jobs that just aren't there anymore. It's a real crisis for the high street.

IDM

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  • Posts: 17523
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6077 on July 10, 2020, 08:15:53 AM by IDM »
I don’t know why people are surprised by the potential closure of businesses or the losing of job positions.
It has been obvious for quite a few weeks that this was going to happen.
The average high street has been going downhill for years, unless you want to visit a charity shop of course.
I heard a man on the news this morning speaking about continuing with airport expansion, saying it is just a matter of time before the aviation industry “gets back to normal”.
I think cloud cuckoo land is more relevant to that suggestion than getting planes into  the clouds on a regular basis.


Air travel is essential to international business and not just holidays.  Airport expansions take years, so if there was a definite demand for expansion before the pandemic, that will likely return in a few years time, by which time the expansion should be ready.

For businesses which can afford it, now is the time to start preparations for the growth which may be slow, but should come back.

Herbert Anchovy

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  • Posts: 1335
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6078 on July 10, 2020, 08:21:08 AM by Herbert Anchovy »
I often wonder how many people who complain about the demise of town centres use out of town or online shopping. The shoppers left the town centres before the shops did. We get the town centres we deserve.

drfchound

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  • Posts: 17490
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6079 on July 10, 2020, 10:01:47 AM by drfchound »
I often wonder how many people who complain about the demise of town centres use out of town or online shopping. The shoppers left the town centres before the shops did. We get the town centres we deserve.







Yeah. Possibly so.
However local councils make getting into town centres anything but easy.
Car parking is expensive too.
Out of town shopping centres offer free parking.

Not Now Kato

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  • Posts: 1796
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6080 on July 10, 2020, 10:51:33 AM by Not Now Kato »
I often wonder how many people who complain about the demise of town centres use out of town or online shopping. The shoppers left the town centres before the shops did. We get the town centres we deserve.

Yep.  When parking in a town costs and is limited whilst parking out of town is free and plentiful there is little wonder people choose the latter!
 
Towns do have opportunities, it will depend on the abilities of local councils to recognise them and take them on board.  Sadly for some towns, (Doncaster is a prime example), it may be too late!

Colin C No.3

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  • Posts: 1822
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6081 on July 10, 2020, 11:46:21 AM by Colin C No.3 »
Dear world

People are human
Mistakes get made
Hindsight wins all arguments
Shit happens
Deal with it and enjoy your lives

Wasn't that found carved on a wall in Aushwitz?

sha66y

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 1508
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6082 on July 11, 2020, 11:05:12 AM by sha66y »
This would be horrifying if we weren't running out of space to be horrified at how appallingly we have mismanaged this crisis.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/how-government-blindfolded-frontline-public-18566511.amp?__twitter_impression=true

We have a well established, well functioning system of managing and suppressing local outbreaks of diseases. I remember when I caught salmonella, the GP going into detailed questions on where I'd been and what I'd eaten, who I'd seen. He noted it all and told me it had to be logged because it was a Notifiable Illness and there might need to be further steps by the local public health body if an outbreak occurred.

So why the f**k haven't we been using this system to monitor and control CV-19 outbreaks? It appears that local.public health bodies are still not being told the names and addresses of people who have tested positive, because...computer says "Confidential".

And yet

The testing is being conducted by private labs. Private labs that DO know the names and addresses of those who have tested positive. But the local.officials whose very role is to handle this confidential data to protect the public are not allowed to have it.

BST
you already know the answer so the “why this” and “why that”  is unimportant...

Watch Nanny McPhee, specifically the wedding scene and the imaginary threat of bees......


BillyStubbsTears

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  • Posts: 23318
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6083 on July 11, 2020, 11:45:03 AM by BillyStubbsTears »
Oh, look who's back.

1) Spout bullshit about the epidemic before it gets going.
 2) Vanish for 4 months while 70,000 people die.
3) Return once it's coming under control, spouting bullshit like nothing has happened.

I do wonder sometimes if Darwin got it badly wrong.

sha66y

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  • Posts: 1508
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6084 on July 12, 2020, 09:16:49 AM by sha66y »
Oh, look who's back.

1) Spout bullshit about the epidemic before it gets going.
 2) Vanish for 4 months while 70,000 people die.
3) Return once it's coming under control, spouting bullshit like nothing has happened.

I do wonder sometimes if Darwin got it badly wrong.

Your all knowing responses are worth the wait ......”coming under control”
You are worth the BBC licence alone.......

wilts rover

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  • Posts: 6626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6085 on July 12, 2020, 02:40:48 PM by wilts rover »
Coronavirus conspiracy theorist died of Covid-19 after trying to catch it to prove it was a hoax.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/11/young-man-died-coronavirus-trying-catch-covid-party-prove-was-hoax-12976195/

River Don

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  • Posts: 4523
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6086 on July 12, 2020, 06:25:18 PM by River Don »
CV19 infection does not produce lasting immunity.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests

It looks like this knocks the idea of herd immunity on the head once and for all. It's also bad news for those hoping to see a silver bullet of a cure all vaccine.


DonnyOsmond

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  • Posts: 7176
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6087 on July 12, 2020, 06:34:40 PM by DonnyOsmond »
CV19 infection does not produce lasting immunity.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests

It looks like this knocks the idea of herd immunity on the head once and for all. It's also bad news for those hoping to see a silver bullet of a cure all vaccine.



So the best idea would be to isolate till it's killed off?

River Don

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  • Posts: 4523
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6088 on July 12, 2020, 06:36:52 PM by River Don »
To top it off, it now appears the virus is at least partially airborne. Which means the idea of sharing space indoors, with large amounts of people isn't that sensible. Encouraging people back on to public transport and into the office doesn't seem so wise.

Also news that the virus is happiest at 4°c. Which means lends credance to the notion of a second spike, just about the time when schools are going back and the football season starts getting into full swing.

River Don

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  • Posts: 4523
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6089 on July 12, 2020, 06:39:31 PM by River Don »
CV19 infection does not produce lasting immunity.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests

It looks like this knocks the idea of herd immunity on the head once and for all. It's also bad news for those hoping to see a silver bullet of a cure all vaccine.



So the best idea would be to isolate till it's killed off?

If that's possible. It's looking like we'll just have to keep trying to surpress it as much as we can.