Coronavirus

[BillyStubbsTears]

Did that science bit come out before Johnson said we should wear masks last week? Or before Gove said at the weekend that we should make our own minds up? Or before the Govt then decided to make it compulsory the day after?

What I see is, once again, a Govt responding to headlines, rather than having a clear-sighted strategy.

[Filo]

IDM, I don't know how the quality of any particular mask would be policed, but of course as I said or hoped to infer the better quality of face covering the better the chance that it would do what is supposed to.

What are they supposed to do now, that they could n’t do at the peak of the virus in April? i’m genuinly baffled as to why face coverings are essential now when the numbers are lower and not essential when the numbers were at their highest

1. Science confirmed recently it can last longer than thought in air and travel a bit further, hence every bit helps.

2. It's about stopping the numbers rising again which clearly they will.

So why did n’t they stop the numbers rising in the first place by enforcing face coverings?

[wilts rover]

It's not science its Cumming focus groups.

There is a poll out today where 60% of the public say they feel safer going out if people are wearing masks - so the government change their advice to make people wear masks.

Forget SAGE & science, we are being governed on the whims of Dominic Cummings and Doris from Ongar.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Did that science bit come out before Johnson said we should wear masks last week? Or before Gove said at the weekend that we should make our own minds up? Or before the Govt then decided to make it compulsory the day after?

What I see is, once again, a Govt responding to headlines, rather than having a clear-sighted strategy.

Not sure, I have to be honest I only read the change in the past week but may easily have not seen something in the past.

In terms of the change if it is just a focus group view then the SNP must be in the same data given they made the change earlier.

[Donnywolf]

It's not science its Cumming focus groups.

There is a poll out today where 60% of the public say they feel safer going out if people are wearing masks - so the government change their advice to make people wear masks.

Forget SAGE & science, we are being governed on the whims of Dominic Cummings and Doris from Ongar.

I didnt think Cummings COULD focus and thats why he went to Barnard Castle

[BillyStubbsTears]

Did that science bit come out before Johnson said we should wear masks last week? Or before Gove said at the weekend that we should make our own minds up? Or before the Govt then decided to make it compulsory the day after?

What I see is, once again, a Govt responding to headlines, rather than having a clear-sighted strategy.

Not sure, I have to be honest I only read the change in the past week but may easily have not seen something in the past.

In terms of the change if it is just a focus group view then the SNP must be in the same data given they made the change earlier.

Apologies if I didn't make myself clear. The point was that the Govt position has flipped three times in the past 4 days. I'm assuming the scientific advice hasn't changed that frequently.

[scawsby steve]

From the news story on the bbc website today:

“ Environment Secretary George Eustice told BBC Breakfast the new mandatory rule for face coverings in shops does not apply to retail staff.
"It is about managing the overall risk," he added. "Any type of covering will be sufficient for this purpose."...”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53397617

That's it then underpants on your head is fine? 

Or Ann Widdicombe's knickers?

[wilts rover]

Conservative Party members resigning and cutting membership cards up in fury at decision of government to make wearing masks in shops mandatory.

Can anyone explain this to me? Why are people angry about protecting public health? I mean its not just them who has to wear one, its everybody? Or is that the problem - they can't feel exceptional in one of their three manor houses any more - we really are all in it together?

https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1283002303587463169

[i_ateallthepies]

There was a theory suggested this week that the government scepticism about the effectiveness of face coverings hasn't changed but they've realised that some people feel more confident going into public spaces if others are wearing masks.
It only takes a small leap of faith to conclude that this is just more of the 'running it hot' strategy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Conservative Party members resigning and cutting membership cards up in fury at decision of government to make wearing masks in shops mandatory.

Can anyone explain this to me? Why are people angry about protecting public health? I mean its not just them who has to wear one, its everybody? Or is that the problem - they can't feel exceptional in one of their three manor houses any more - we really are all in it together?

https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1283002303587463169

The Tory shiresmen do choose some very odd hills to die on.

[SydneyRover]

From the news story on the bbc website today:

“ Environment Secretary George Eustice told BBC Breakfast the new mandatory rule for face coverings in shops does not apply to retail staff.
"It is about managing the overall risk," he added. "Any type of covering will be sufficient for this purpose."...”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53397617

That's it then underpants on your head is fine? 

Or Ann Widdicombe's knickers?

Anything you do on stage is fine here Steve 

[drfchound]

Ha, the only stage SS should be on is the next one out of town.

(Sorry Baz😷). 👍

[scawsby steve]

Ha, the only stage SS should be on is the next one out of town.

(Sorry Baz😷). 👍

When Sydney comes back, I will be.

[ravenrover]

Yvette Cooper crucifying Priti today over her lack of up to date figures

[BillyStubbsTears]

if you want some idea of the economic problems that COVID has wrought on the economy, watch this.

https://youtu.be/FpG5udjEFcs

Frightening. Truly frightening. The OBR are saying that in the BEST case scenario, unemployment will go up to 10% (3.3million plus) by the end of the year and won't come down to normal levels for a long time. The worst case scenario suggests unemployment up to maybe 4.5million.

Economic growth looks awful. we were already looking at historically very low levels of growth throughout the 2020s because of the detrimental effects of Austerity and Brexit. The OBR is now saying we are going to struggle to grow at all before the mid-2020s.

Absolutely horrific.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Before the crisis, the OBR was predicting that the Govt would have to borrow £55bn in 2020 (roughly 2.5% of GDP). They are now saying Govt borrowing for this year will be £375bn (17% of GDP).

Put in context, before the GFC in 2008, the Labour Govt was borrowing about 2.5-3% of GDP and it went up at the height of the crisis to about 10%. Both Governments had the deficit reasonably well under control pre-crisis. Both were hit by the sort of crisis that you do not see coming and cannot prepare for.

As I've said elsewhere, anyone who supports what the Govt is doing now, but still sticks to the line that Labour were utterly reckless in the period before 2010 has lost all right to be taken seriously.

[BillyStubbsTears]

God help us.

https://mobile.twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1283697668678660096

We are governed (sic) by an utter shit shower of incompetents.

There is NOTHING more important in this situation than clarity of message. Instead, they are making the f**ker up as they go along.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And on top.of the utter incompetence, there are generous lashings of corruption and contempt.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1283696322357407744

That smirking non-answer from Gove...hang your f**king heads if you are not seeing through this.

[wilts rover]

Poll out today showing an increased Tory lead.

Seems like people want a different outcome from their government than you Billy. I wish they would explain what it was, cos I haven't got a clue?

Funny old world.

[wilts rover]

Words fail me.

£133m on coronavirus kits, in use since March, the use of which has been stopped immediately 'due to safety issues'.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/16/uk-government-orders-halt-randox-covid-19-tests-over-safety-issues

[BillyStubbsTears]

Poll out today showing an increased Tory lead.

Seems like people want a different outcome from their government than you Billy. I wish they would explain what it was, cos I haven't got a clue?

Funny old world.

I wouldn't worry too much about a specific poll. Taking the central average, the polls have settled down to Con 42-44 Lab 37-39 or thereabouts.

That a massive change from back in April when the Rally Round The Flag in a Crisis effect had figures more like Con 55 Lab 30.

I suspect there won't be any very rapid changes to the poll figures for a while. But I'd be amazed if the economic grief that is coming along the track from this winter didn't result in a long, slow erosion of Johnson's support. There aren't many cases of governing parties staying popular with 3+million people on the dole.

[River Don]

From a purely personal point of view, it doesn't feel that there is much outrage in the country about just how badly the government has handled this pandemic. There are literally thousands of unnecessary deaths in the UK and people just seem to shrug.

I'd have thought it might have more bearing on the popularity of the government by now.

[River Don]

Another day, another thousand hospitality jobs to go.

This time at Pizza Express, they intend to shut 75 restaurants and that may not be the end of it. The business is heavily in debt.

[BillyStubbsTears]

From a purely personal point of view, it doesn't feel that there is much outrage in the country about just how badly the government has handled this pandemic. There are literally thousands of unnecessary deaths in the UK and people just seem to shrug.

I'd have thought it might have more bearing on the popularity of the government by now.

A very good mate of mine is a Tory voter. Very highly educated. Very numerate.

He insists the reason we've had it so bad here is that people aren't properly sticking to the rules.

I showed him a graph I put on here s few weeks back that shows for country after country, the number of deaths is related to how quick or late they were at going into lockdown. And we were late.


He deals with graphs every day of his working life. But he looked at that, shrugged and said, "it wouldn't have mattered anyway. It's the fault of feckless bas**rds."

It is quite something to see how easy it is for people to just close their eyes to stuff that contradicts what they desperately want to be true.

That's why I say that there'll be no big sudden move in the polls now. But anger will come when folk lose their jobs and see their wages depressed again. It'll come slowly, but no less concrete for it.

[ravenrover]

Hancockup is now rewriting history claiming that lockdown effectively started a week earlier than it actually did

[Filo]

It’s obvious that it is time to write a constitution for this Country, this lot have trashed our current system

[BillyStubbsTears]

Boris Johnson today is going to make an announcement that people should go back to their place of work. 24 hours after the Chief Scientific Officer said people should continue working at home.

So there's not even a pretence that we are "following the science" now.

I understand that there is an economic drive to try to get back to normality. I get that if we don't go back to work that travel and shops jobs are under threat. But there's a choice here. We have chosen to stop trying to suppress the infection numbers any further. We have accepted 30,000 new infections every week and 300 or so extra deaths every week as a minimum baseline from now on.

The ones in the Govt who wanted to "run this hot" have won. No other country in Europe has taken this path. They all screwed down the virus further before opening up, and have been able to open up more safely, with fewer ongoing deaths.

But we are different aren't we...

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Also more worryingly are we overstating our death rates?

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-health-secretary-matt-hancock-orders-urgent-review-into-public-health-england-death-data-12030392

As for offices, I see the point I really do, but I don't think it wise, are those jobs worth sacrificing to risk lives?  I'm glad it isn't my decision, what a nightmare.

[drfchound]

Also more worryingly are we overstating our death rates?

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-health-secretary-matt-hancock-orders-urgent-review-into-public-health-england-death-data-12030392

As for offices, I see the point I really do, but I don't think it wise, are those jobs worth sacrificing to risk lives?  I'm glad it isn't my decision, what a nightmare.

What a nightmare indeed.
Perhaps those who criticise would do a better job.

[River Don]

The return to the office will be an economic decision.

With many businesses unexpectedly finding their staff are actually more productive working at home and all the savings that can be made, never mind the safety considerations, many won't be returning, no matter how much Boris wants it.

I think what we're going to see are businesses moving into smaller premises and only requiring staff come into the office occasionally.