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Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 860879 times)

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River Don

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13050 on July 26, 2021, 08:11:53 pm by River Don »
It's a two way thing. People post more when the facts suit their position more.

I'm more than happy to say this fall in the infection rate is really exceeding my expectations. I still think we need to see more data before we can be confident it is falling and we won't see a return to growth though.




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dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13051 on July 26, 2021, 08:20:30 pm by dickos1 »
I think we will definitely see an upturn in cases but not anything like the predictions Ferguson stated

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13052 on July 26, 2021, 09:39:33 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
I think we will definitely see an upturn in cases but not anything like the predictions Ferguson stated

And not for the first time. There are some so called experts who repeatedly get things wrong and sometimes not just for scientific reasons.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13053 on July 26, 2021, 10:31:24 pm by SydneyRover »
The drop is due to the fact the kids are not at school isn’t it? Same as every other time they’ve been off. It’s no great mystery.

Most schools in England finished Friday just gone. But if it is because of the schools then that’s exactly what the government said and why they chose this date to start relaxing the restrictions.
[/b]

''Coronavirus infections continue to fall in UK''

"Today's figures do not of course include any impact of last Monday's end of restrictions. It will not be until about next Friday before the data includes the impact of this change."

hmmm

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57962995

dickos:

''Lots of quotes you missed out there Sydney! Wonder why you just picked that one out''

probably because it was the ''dogs balls'' comment dickos, you could continue the conversation by discussing what you said and how my comment/quote has a bearing on it ..... and how your comment stands up in the light of this information .. or not of course.


The quote from the article has nothing to do with schools closing.
And there were many quotes within the article that expressed an opinion that we won’t see any further increases etc etc etc
But you ignored those ones

If you wanted to write both sides of the debate you should have said a bit earlier dickos

bpoolrover

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  • Posts: 5923
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13054 on July 26, 2021, 10:37:21 pm by bpoolrover »
It's a two way thing. People post more when the facts suit their position more.

I'm more than happy to say this fall in the infection rate is really exceeding my expectations. I still think we need to see more data before we can be confident it is falling and we won't see a return to growth though.


it will go up
For sure rd but it shows that scientists get it wrong 2 I've not seen anyone post anyone predicting what has happened at the minute

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13055 on July 26, 2021, 10:50:53 pm by SydneyRover »
probably for the fact that it was unforeseen, maybe it means that scientists and government need to go back and look at how populations were vaccinated in the past the whole of the population including the kids, or even start with kids.

no eyed deer

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13056 on July 26, 2021, 10:59:35 pm by no eyed deer »
probably for the fact that it was unforeseen, maybe it means that scientists and government need to go back and look at how populations were vaccinated in the past the whole of the population including the kids, or even start with kids.

Is this a wind up ?

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13057 on July 26, 2021, 11:03:47 pm by SydneyRover »
which bit ned, you didn't say

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13058 on July 26, 2021, 11:05:09 pm by dickos1 »
probably for the fact that it was unforeseen, maybe it means that scientists and government need to go back and look at how populations were vaccinated in the past the whole of the population including the kids, or even start with kids.

This kind of post is what baffles me,
Just a constant obsession with the government, the cases have started to drop so let’s blame the government, the cases are increasing let’s blame the government, crazy!

Your arguments would hold much more weight if you weren’t so obsessed with the government, moaning about them in every situation and whatever they do just ends up you just making noise that doesn’t mean anything.

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13059 on July 26, 2021, 11:05:28 pm by bpoolrover »
probably for the fact that it was unforeseen, maybe it means that scientists and government need to go back and look at how populations were vaccinated in the past the whole of the population including the kids, or even start with kids.
if they had started with kids there would be thousands if not tens of thousands more dead

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13060 on July 26, 2021, 11:06:51 pm by dickos1 »
The drop is due to the fact the kids are not at school isn’t it? Same as every other time they’ve been off. It’s no great mystery.

Most schools in England finished Friday just gone. But if it is because of the schools then that’s exactly what the government said and why they chose this date to start relaxing the restrictions.
[/b]

''Coronavirus infections continue to fall in UK''

"Today's figures do not of course include any impact of last Monday's end of restrictions. It will not be until about next Friday before the data includes the impact of this change."

hmmm

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57962995

dickos:

''Lots of quotes you missed out there Sydney! Wonder why you just picked that one out''

probably because it was the ''dogs balls'' comment dickos, you could continue the conversation by discussing what you said and how my comment/quote has a bearing on it ..... and how your comment stands up in the light of this information .. or not of course.


The quote from the article has nothing to do with schools closing.
And there were many quotes within the article that expressed an opinion that we won’t see any further increases etc etc etc
But you ignored those ones

If you wanted to write both sides of the debate you should have said a bit earlier dickos

You brought the link up, and quoted only the bits that may match your point of view, unfortunately the link was also full of content that didn’t match your point of view

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13061 on July 26, 2021, 11:07:33 pm by dickos1 »
probably for the fact that it was unforeseen, maybe it means that scientists and government need to go back and look at how populations were vaccinated in the past the whole of the population including the kids, or even start with kids.
if they had started with kids there would be thousands if not tens of thousands more dead

He knows that of course he does, but it’s just another subject where he can associate blame on the government.

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13062 on July 26, 2021, 11:08:49 pm by bpoolrover »
Also the take up would be nothing like it is now, vaccinating people who are at very little risk with a vaccine that was found quite quickly would be Barmy

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13063 on July 26, 2021, 11:12:08 pm by SydneyRover »
bp, If they had locked down a lot earlier there would have been tens of thousands more alive. Going back to the start of this nightmare the only weapon governments had while a vaccination was developed was lockdown and isolation. The vaccination became available which the government rolled out at great speed, but having unvaccinated kids at school appears to be a great vector for spreading the disease (variant) Not sure about you but in normal times when the grand kids are at kindy, day school or whatever every household was full of colds and flu.

no eyed deer

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13064 on July 26, 2021, 11:20:04 pm by no eyed deer »
bp, If they had locked down a lot earlier there would have been tens of thousands more alive. Going back to the start of this nightmare the only weapon governments had while a vaccination was developed was lockdown and isolation. The vaccination became available which the government rolled out at great speed, but having unvaccinated kids at school appears to be a great vector for spreading the disease (variant) Not sure about you but in normal times when the grand kids are at kindy, day school or whatever every household was full of colds and flu.

So the vaccination stops the spread  ?


SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13065 on July 26, 2021, 11:20:35 pm by SydneyRover »
is that a wind up?

KeithMyath

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  • Posts: 150
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13066 on July 26, 2021, 11:44:20 pm by KeithMyath »
The fall in Positive test results is a great signifier, but unfortunately that doesn't mean a fall in cases. There are a multitude of factors of why we shouldn't use the governments Daily Positive Cases over the the more acclaimed ONS random test figures. On Friday the ONS reported that we had gone from 1 in 95 to 1 in 70 in a week. To be fair that's accessing week old data but still shows an unhealthy upward trajectory. I will be happy when the next ONS figures start to show a slow down or a downward slide. Be interesting come Friday.

There is also no clear reason as to why we are having a reduction in infections, unless we have reached some sort of herd immunity far earlier than we had calculated, or people just don't want to get tested due to the issues with friends and family being pinged (Tests carried out has dropped off some 200,000 a day according to the recent data). I hope its the former, even if the numbers don't stack up.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 11:47:03 pm by KeithMyath »

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13067 on July 27, 2021, 07:06:55 am by dickos1 »
bp, If they had locked down a lot earlier there would have been tens of thousands more alive. Going back to the start of this nightmare the only weapon governments had while a vaccination was developed was lockdown and isolation. The vaccination became available which the government rolled out at great speed, but having unvaccinated kids at school appears to be a great vector for spreading the disease (variant) Not sure about you but in normal times when the grand kids are at kindy, day school or whatever every household was full of colds and flu.

Lockdown has been criticised by many people for being too long and crippling the economy.
Lives have been lost because of the lockdown, lives ruined, businesses destroyed.
There’s no right or wrong answer, if the lockdown has been for 3 months longer as you suggest then their would’ve been lots of ramifications from that.
And you’d be on here criticising the government for crippling the economy

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13068 on July 27, 2021, 07:49:18 am by SydneyRover »
bp, If they had locked down a lot earlier there would have been tens of thousands more alive. Going back to the start of this nightmare the only weapon governments had while a vaccination was developed was lockdown and isolation. The vaccination became available which the government rolled out at great speed, but having unvaccinated kids at school appears to be a great vector for spreading the disease (variant) Not sure about you but in normal times when the grand kids are at kindy, day school or whatever every household was full of colds and flu.

Lockdown has been criticised by many people (who and when)  for being too long and crippling the economy.
Lives have been lost because of the lockdown(who, how many and when) lives ruined, businesses destroyed.
There’s no right or wrong answer, if the lockdown has been for 3 months longer as you suggest then their would’ve been lots of ramifications from that.
And you’d be on here criticising the government for crippling the economy

When you bring back some evidence (f a c t s) to support your theory on lockdowns and who is it that doesn't support them I/we may get somewhere. A few dates may be helpful also so there is an understanding of when and what you are referring to. Also if you could point out where I mentioned 3 months that may jog my memory.

You also need to separate the 'lives ruined' bit from the 'businesses ruined' bit so I/we know exactly what you are referring to.

While you are at it you could also explain what should have been done to curb the spread of the virus between the bit where it started and the vaccines became available.

That should keep you busy for a while although you could just ignore it if you don't have any answers.

If any of your answer start with 'a mate down the pub' or fb maybe save your breath and time.

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13069 on July 27, 2021, 08:31:04 am by big fat yorkshire pudding »
Here's one Sydney that probably would have meant the virus would have had much less deaths (per Sky news this morning);

Perhaps the NHS should have done a better job at isolating Covid in it's own buildings....



More than half of COVID hospitalisations are patients who tested positive after admission - report

Only 44% of patients in England who are classed as being hospitalised with COVID actually tested positive ahead of admission, leaked NHS data reportedly shows.

This suggests significant numbers are being considered hospitalised by COVID when they initially arrived with other conditions, the Daily Telegraph reports.

The majority of cases were not detected until patients underwent virus testing carried out on everyone admitted to hospitals in England for any reason.

Some 56% of COVID hospital admissions fell into this category, according to the data.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13070 on July 27, 2021, 08:33:44 am by SydneyRover »
I guess you would have needed a good supply of (not out of date) ppe to ensure that went well pud.

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13071 on July 27, 2021, 08:52:42 am by big fat yorkshire pudding »
I guess you would have needed a good supply of (not out of date) ppe to ensure that went well pud.

Or just basics like keeping non covid patients away from covid patients.  You may remember this happened to a relative of mine who's over 80, it was stupidity of the highest order.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13072 on July 27, 2021, 09:01:47 am by SydneyRover »
I guess you would have needed a good supply of (not out of date) ppe to ensure that went well pud.

Or just basics like keeping non covid patients away from covid patients.  You may remember this happened to a relative of mine who's over 80, it was stupidity of the highest order.

There were lots of very stupid things done pud and I really feel for anyone that has 'lost' someone close or they have ongoing problems.

The only way to get to the bottom of this is to have a full and frank inquiry with full powers to demand witnesses attend and all information relative to the response made available.

Also there is more information yet to be released (if ever) surrounding the Cygnus operation which should have had everything set and ready to go when the epidemic hit.

I don't really understand why the government steadfastly refuses to get on with it, if they are to be believed this should clear them of all blame.

 https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4499

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13073 on July 27, 2021, 09:28:58 am by big fat yorkshire pudding »
Again you swing it back to the government.  The guidelines were clear not to mix patients but for whatever reason hospitals didn't follow them.  Matt Hancock couldn't go to dri and forceably do it could he?

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13074 on July 27, 2021, 09:37:59 am by SydneyRover »
Again you swing it back to the government.  The guidelines were clear not to mix patients but for whatever reason hospitals didn't follow them.  Matt Hancock couldn't go to dri and forceably do it could he?

I agree, but we'll never know if we don't have the inquiry, the pandemic plan should have given very specific and prescribed information about what should have happened in all hospitals during a pandemic, shipping covid positive patients from aged care to hospital should not have happened either but it did and the government are being totally dishonest about that, no?

There was a pandemic plan, right?

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13075 on July 27, 2021, 10:58:51 am by dickos1 »
bp, If they had locked down a lot earlier there would have been tens of thousands more alive. Going back to the start of this nightmare the only weapon governments had while a vaccination was developed was lockdown and isolation. The vaccination became available which the government rolled out at great speed, but having unvaccinated kids at school appears to be a great vector for spreading the disease (variant) Not sure about you but in normal times when the grand kids are at kindy, day school or whatever every household was full of colds and flu.

Lockdown has been criticised by many people (who and when)  for being too long and crippling the economy.
Lives have been lost because of the lockdown(who, how many and when) lives ruined, businesses destroyed.
There’s no right or wrong answer, if the lockdown has been for 3 months longer as you suggest then their would’ve been lots of ramifications from that.
And you’d be on here criticising the government for crippling the economy

When you bring back some evidence (f a c t s) to support your theory on lockdowns and who is it that doesn't support them I/we may get somewhere. A few dates may be helpful also so there is an understanding of when and what you are referring to. Also if you could point out where I mentioned 3 months that may jog my memory.

You also need to separate the 'lives ruined' bit from the 'businesses ruined' bit so I/we know exactly what you are referring to.

While you are at it you could also explain what should have been done to curb the spread of the virus between the bit where it started and the vaccines became available.

That should keep you busy for a while although you could just ignore it if you don't have any answers.

If any of your answer start with 'a mate down the pub' or fb maybe save your breath and time.

I know you’re the other side of the planet but I do wonder if you’re even on this planet.
Because if you haven’t seen anyone criticising lockdowns then frankly you can’t be.

I don’t need to change any words, lives have been ruined that’s a fact, people losing their homes, their livelihoods, family members taking their own lives. You’re in cuckoo land if you can’t accept lives have been ruined.
I’m not arguing against lockdowns but it’s nonsense to suggest there hasn’t been criticism of them nor that they haven’t caused lives to be ruined.
A lot of your posts have zero relevance to facts yet you keep asking others to provide them.

Regarding PPE, there was plenty of PPE available to the NHS, we supplied it and were in contact with them daily asking if they wanted more but they said it was all in hand, so much of the issue with supplies was down to the procurement team within the NHS, I know for a fact we weren’t the only people offering them PPE

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13076 on July 27, 2021, 11:22:19 am by SydneyRover »
If you don't add the detail dickos your answers don't make much sense, surely you must be refreshed if you slept through last years ppe shortage and how the tories lined the pockets of their 'sponsors' with luverly contracts.

I don't have a problem with them handing out contracts to the chumocracy provided everyone has the same opportunities, same for jobs in the civil service and all the other jobs handed out to cronies.

''Britain’s civil service remains upper-middle class
Not so much has changed since the 1960s, a new report says''

https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/05/20/britains-civil-service-remains-upper-middle-class

KeithMyath

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 150
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13077 on July 27, 2021, 11:34:51 am by KeithMyath »
Again you swing it back to the government.  The guidelines were clear not to mix patients but for whatever reason hospitals didn't follow them.  Matt Hancock couldn't go to dri and forceably do it could he?

Wow just Wow... It was the hospitals fault. Utterly Staggering.... Indoctrinated much BFYP?

drfchound

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  • Posts: 29201
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13078 on July 27, 2021, 11:37:30 am by drfchound »
bp, If they had locked down a lot earlier there would have been tens of thousands more alive. Going back to the start of this nightmare the only weapon governments had while a vaccination was developed was lockdown and isolation. The vaccination became available which the government rolled out at great speed, but having unvaccinated kids at school appears to be a great vector for spreading the disease (variant) Not sure about you but in normal times when the grand kids are at kindy, day school or whatever every household was full of colds and flu.

Lockdown has been criticised by many people (who and when)  for being too long and crippling the economy.
Lives have been lost because of the lockdown(who, how many and when) lives ruined, businesses destroyed.
There’s no right or wrong answer, if the lockdown has been for 3 months longer as you suggest then their would’ve been lots of ramifications from that.
And you’d be on here criticising the government for crippling the economy

When you bring back some evidence (f a c t s) to support your theory on lockdowns and who is it that doesn't support them I/we may get somewhere. A few dates may be helpful also so there is an understanding of when and what you are referring to. Also if you could point out where I mentioned 3 months that may jog my memory.

You also need to separate the 'lives ruined' bit from the 'businesses ruined' bit so I/we know exactly what you are referring to.

While you are at it you could also explain what should have been done to curb the spread of the virus between the bit where it started and the vaccines became available.

That should keep you busy for a while although you could just ignore it if you don't have any answers.

If any of your answer start with 'a mate down the pub' or fb maybe save your breath and time.

I know you’re the other side of the planet but I do wonder if you’re even on this planet.
Because if you haven’t seen anyone criticising lockdowns then frankly you can’t be.

I don’t need to change any words, lives have been ruined that’s a fact, people losing their homes, their livelihoods, family members taking their own lives. You’re in cuckoo land if you can’t accept lives have been ruined.
I’m not arguing against lockdowns but it’s nonsense to suggest there hasn’t been criticism of them nor that they haven’t caused lives to be ruined.
A lot of your posts have zero relevance to facts yet you keep asking others to provide them.

Regarding PPE, there was plenty of PPE available to the NHS, we supplied it and were in contact with them daily asking if they wanted more but they said it was all in hand, so much of the issue with supplies was down to the procurement team within the NHS, I know for a fact we weren’t the only people offering them PPE





Don’t waste your breath Dickos, even your first hand experience of the PPE situation won’t carry any weight in the discussion.

SydneyRover

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  • Posts: 13582
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13079 on July 27, 2021, 11:42:35 am by SydneyRover »
''David Oliver: Lack of PPE betrays NHS clinical staff''

from that well known lefty communist magazine the British Medical Journal

''The failure to provide adequate personal protective equipment (PPE) to health and social care workers during the pandemic has highlighted the disintegration of any culture of integrity, transparency, honesty, and support for healthcare staff from the government and NHS employers.

I have reported in The BMJ this week on NHS trusts’ behaviour around supply of PPE to their clinical staff and the trusts’ responses when staff complained.1 Of 66 NHS trusts (of 130 approached) that replied to my freedom of information request, only two confirmed that they had explicitly restricted PPE use, warned staff about its overuse, or warned them over complaining about shortages. Only one NHS trust admitted being subject to investigation from the Health and Safety Executive for covid related deaths among staff, even though the HSE confirmed a number of investigations''

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n438

 

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