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Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 860287 times)

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BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13440 on August 27, 2021, 11:15:54 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Dickos

1) The total figures for the whole epidemic are irrelaevant to the point we are discussing - the current situation.

2) You are cherry picking the daily numbers for California to fit an argument. If you're going to do this properly, look at the 7 day averages.

State   Population (M)   Cases   Deaths   Cases/Million   Deaths/Million
California   39.5               12995   82               329.0   2.1
New York   19.5                4582   24               235.0   1.2
Illinois   12.7                    3657   29               288.0   2.3
Michigan   10                    2026   15               202.6   1.5
Washington 6                    3160   23               415.8   3.0
Massachusetts 6.9             1419   6                  205.7   0.9

               
Texas   29                       16949   175               584.4   6.0
Florida   21.5                  21203   242               986.2   11.3
Georgia   10.6                  8762   48                  826.6   4.5
Louisiana   4.6                  4625   64                1005.4   13.9
Mississippi   3                   3200   30                 1066.7   10.0
Arkansas   3                     2067   32                   689.0   10.7

UK         68.4                33828   110                    494.6   1.6


I said the problem in the USA at the moment is predominantly driven by the stupid handling of restrictions in the Deep South (and the stupid resistance to vaccination in the whole of the USA, but in particular in Trump supporting areas). I said MOST of America had the current outbreak more or less under control apart from the Deep South. Look at those numbers and tell me I'm wrong.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 11:19:08 pm by BillyStubbsTears »



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SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13441 on August 27, 2021, 11:28:09 pm by SydneyRover »
Don't worry dickos it will only be like the flu apparently ...................

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13442 on August 28, 2021, 03:33:56 am by bpoolrover »
Sydney does it matter to you that your on a rovers message board talking to fellow supporters? I have  not agreed with certain people And have said wrong things but it seems to me that your only interest is to argue and insult people if they don't agree with you,  the idea of a rovers forum is yes to debate and disagree but not be rude and insulting to every person! Do you actually watch us play ever or just argue on politics?

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13443 on August 28, 2021, 04:12:21 am by SydneyRover »
bp, any time you think I am being rude please point it out so we can discuss the context. Are you following the whole of the conversation or just a few bites when it suits?

Have a look at post 8 on the objective truth thread that has just started.

Have a look at post 13419 on this thread and many others, you are going to be quite busy if  you take up the role of forum moderator as it requires you to make judgement on all those on it.

Continually winding people up which you have admitted to is quite rude in it's self bp wouldn't you think.

Added,

there's a couple on the vinyl thread that may need your attention too, would you like me to report them to you as I see them or save them up?

« Last Edit: August 28, 2021, 04:25:05 am by SydneyRover »

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13444 on August 28, 2021, 05:29:18 am by SydneyRover »
Wolfies comments on thread argy-bargy are worth a read and I agree with him, but it shouldn't get nasty at any time.

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13445 on August 28, 2021, 06:58:08 am by dickos1 »
Dickos

1) The total figures for the whole epidemic are irrelaevant to the point we are discussing - the current situation.

2) You are cherry picking the daily numbers for California to fit an argument. If you're going to do this properly, look at the 7 day averages.

State   Population (M)   Cases   Deaths   Cases/Million   Deaths/Million
California   39.5               12995   82               329.0   2.1
New York   19.5                4582   24               235.0   1.2
Illinois   12.7                    3657   29               288.0   2.3
Michigan   10                    2026   15               202.6   1.5
Washington 6                    3160   23               415.8   3.0
Massachusetts 6.9             1419   6                  205.7   0.9

               
Texas   29                       16949   175               584.4   6.0
Florida   21.5                  21203   242               986.2   11.3
Georgia   10.6                  8762   48                  826.6   4.5
Louisiana   4.6                  4625   64                1005.4   13.9
Mississippi   3                   3200   30                 1066.7   10.0
Arkansas   3                     2067   32                   689.0   10.7

UK         68.4                33828   110                    494.6   1.6


I said the problem in the USA at the moment is predominantly driven by the stupid handling of restrictions in the Deep South (and the stupid resistance to vaccination in the whole of the USA, but in particular in Trump supporting areas). I said MOST of America had the current outbreak more or less under control apart from the Deep South. Look at those numbers and tell me I'm wrong.

I’m not cherry picking anything, I’m just looking at the information and California top the list.
You seem to be the one cherry picking information.

Even with your information I’m struggling to see how it’s under control in California but in England it’s a disaster.
5 more deaths in England than in California, with a population almost 20 million more.
Yet you’re trying to argue America have it under control and England is carnage

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13446 on August 28, 2021, 10:20:59 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Go on. Indulge me. Where have I said it's carnage here?

And you're just going to ignore the 7 day averages because...?

Filo

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13447 on August 28, 2021, 10:35:04 am by Filo »
Wolfies comments on thread argy-bargy are worth a read and I agree with him, but it shouldn't get nasty at any time.

Great album by Squeeze

ravenrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13448 on August 28, 2021, 12:38:13 pm by ravenrover »
Are all countries recording Covid statistics in the same way?

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13449 on August 28, 2021, 09:04:38 pm by dickos1 »
Go on. Indulge me. Where have I said it's carnage here?

And you're just going to ignore the 7 day averages because...?

Throughout this thread you keep suggesting England is a disaster, and then argue other countries are managing it far better.
USA don’t have it under control that’s my point, nor do many other countries, plenty of whom may look like they do at the minute

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13450 on August 28, 2021, 09:29:10 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
You're quite something Dickos. Constantly changing the terms of the discussion, totally ignoring your utterly wrong previous opinions, turning a blind eye to facts and then claiming you are right. 

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13451 on August 28, 2021, 11:55:26 pm by SydneyRover »
Go on. Indulge me. Where have I said it's carnage here?

And you're just going to ignore the 7 day averages because...?

Throughout this thread you keep suggesting England is a disaster, and then argue other countries are managing it far better.
USA don’t have it under control that’s my point, nor do many other countries, plenty of whom may look like they do at the minute

Just a thought dickos, maybe you are confusing the comments about johnson and his government being a shambles and the facts about how they have handled the covid response.

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13452 on August 29, 2021, 05:26:28 am by dickos1 »
Go on. Indulge me. Where have I said it's carnage here?

And you're just going to ignore the 7 day averages because...?

Throughout this thread you keep suggesting England is a disaster, and then argue other countries are managing it far better.
USA don’t have it under control that’s my point, nor do many other countries, plenty of whom may look like they do at the minute

Just a thought dickos, maybe you are confusing the comments about johnson and his government being a shambles and the facts about how they have handled the covid response.

The thread is about coronavirus Ozzie!
I know you try your best to turn everything about boris but I’m keeping on topic
And it’s a fallacy that the U.K. is doing far worse than most of the world

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13453 on August 29, 2021, 05:29:04 am by dickos1 »
You're quite something Dickos. Constantly changing the terms of the discussion, totally ignoring your utterly wrong previous opinions, turning a blind eye to facts and then claiming you are right. 

I think most of the world has been wrong regards covid, you keep bringing up something I said 19 months ago yet you’ve been consistently wrong over the last few weeks.
Anyhow I’m not changing the terms of the discussion I’m pointing out USA doesn’t have it under control and England isn’t doing as badly as you’re trying to portray to everyone

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13454 on August 29, 2021, 08:54:27 am by SydneyRover »
Go on. Indulge me. Where have I said it's carnage here?

And you're just going to ignore the 7 day averages because...?

Throughout this thread you keep suggesting England is a disaster, and then argue other countries are managing it far better.
USA don’t have it under control that’s my point, nor do many other countries, plenty of whom may look like they do at the minute

Just a thought dickos, maybe you are confusing the comments about johnson and his government being a shambles and the facts about how they have handled the covid response.

The thread is about coronavirus Ozzie!
I know you try your best to turn everything about boris but I’m keeping on topic
And it’s a fallacy that the U.K. is doing far worse than most of the world

Try and get a grip please dickos, the UK has done so badly because of government ineptitude, how is it possible to ignore that fact. How can this not be political, someone needs to answer for this, are you going to blame hospital staff. Tens of thousands would not have died if the government had made decisions and acted sooner.

You tell me, who is to blame? if you don't know then let's bring the inquiry on so we can find out.

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13455 on August 29, 2021, 09:01:25 am by dickos1 »
I don’t agree Aussie!
When we look back in 5 years I believe the U.K. will look like they managed it as good as most countries.
And the thing is most of the population agree, if there was a general election tomorrow the tories would win again at a canter. That wouldn’t happen if everything thought it was their fault.
The only people going mad are the fanatical Labour fans, most sane people can acknowledge it
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 09:32:15 am by dickos1 »

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13456 on August 29, 2021, 09:03:47 am by SydneyRover »
That's your prerogative dickos but why do we have to wait for those countries that can't afford vaccines to get worse before declaring the uk response a success?

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13457 on August 29, 2021, 09:32:51 am by dickos1 »
That's your prerogative dickos but why do we have to wait for those countries that can't afford vaccines to get worse before declaring the uk response a success?

Who said anything about the countries that can’t afford vaccines?

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13458 on August 29, 2021, 09:46:00 am by SydneyRover »
I don’t agree Aussie!
When we look back in 5 years I believe the U.K. will look like they managed it as good as most countries.
And the thing is most of the population agree, if there was a general election tomorrow the tories would win again at a canter. That wouldn’t happen if everything thought it was their fault.
The only people going mad are the fanatical Labour fans, most sane people can acknowledge it

Why do we have to wait, is it so johnson can fill all the positions where anyone can judge him is a crony?

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13459 on August 29, 2021, 10:08:45 am by SydneyRover »
Dockos, all the information I have used to make a case is freely available and understood by those there care to look and you don't have to look too hard.

Excess deaths, incompetence of decision making right down to appointing cronies into every position possible.

A fully independent inquiry now could look at why decisions were made, could they have been made any better, any quicker. Look at and answer all the questions regarding PPE and the contracts and why a fairly new purpose built entity was not used.

And an inquiry could look at decisions made to see if they stack up against what the government learned from Cygnus and whether the funding reduction to the NHS over the past 11 years made a difference.

Let's hope johnson is not allowed to delay the inquiry even further, make the terms of the inquiry too narrow or appoint a crony to run it.




dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13460 on August 29, 2021, 10:33:40 am by dickos1 »
You replied saying it was my prerogative and then proceeded to tell me why it’s not my prerogative.
U.K. have made mistakes as have every country in the world, some mistakes we don’t even know about yet.
U.K.  have also been excellent, in aspects and other countries will be excellent in things we don’t know about yet.

wilts rover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13461 on August 29, 2021, 10:53:38 am by wilts rover »
You replied saying it was my prerogative and then proceeded to tell me why it’s not my prerogative.
U.K. have made mistakes as have every country in the world, some mistakes we don’t even know about yet.
U.K.  have also been excellent, in aspects and other countries will be excellent in things we don’t know about yet.


Mistakes Dickos - or deliberately policy? Herd immunity with no scientific basis behind it - just the knowledge that 'only a few old people will die'.

Go back to page one of this thread and people saying - why is Cheltenham going ahead, why haven't we closed the borders - as we were watching the images from China and Italy and knowing it is coming our way.

You support a government who had a policy to let people die. It doesnt appear a problem to you.

dickos1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13462 on August 29, 2021, 11:13:48 am by dickos1 »
I don’t support the government that’s where all you Labour die hards are going wrong.
I’ve never voted Tory in my life and I’d be saying the same things I’m saying now if Labour were in charge.
But the Labour fans are just constantly making it into party politics all the time, it gets tiresome.
Boris won’t even have had a clue what herd immunity was, he’s obviously taking advice from folk who know more about it than any of us.
Labour would be doing the same, the scientists all contradict each other too so it can’t be said they ignore scientists advice cause there’s so much differing advice everywhere.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13463 on August 29, 2021, 12:01:57 pm by SydneyRover »
I don’t support the government that’s where all you Labour die hards are going wrong.
I’ve never voted Tory in my life and I’d be saying the same things I’m saying now if Labour were in charge.
But the Labour fans are just constantly making it into party politics all the time, it gets tiresome.
Boris won’t even have had a clue what herd immunity was, he’s obviously taking advice from folk who know more about it than any of us.
Labour would be doing the same, the scientists all contradict each other too so it can’t be said they ignore scientists advice cause there’s so much differing advice everywhere.

This is the bit I don't understand, the government makes decisions but it's not politics? and they can't be blamed when they make political decisions over science or common sense?

Which rabbit hole does this lead the country down, we cannot blame the government for any decision?

Cannot hold individual ministers responsible because that is deemed political?

It doesn't stand up to scrutiny nor common sense.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13464 on August 29, 2021, 12:10:57 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
You're quite something Dickos. Constantly changing the terms of the discussion, totally ignoring your utterly wrong previous opinions, turning a blind eye to facts and then claiming you are right. 

I think most of the world has been wrong regards covid, you keep bringing up something I said 19 months ago yet you’ve been consistently wrong over the last few weeks.
Anyhow I’m not changing the terms of the discussion I’m pointing out USA doesn’t have it under control and England isn’t doing as badly as you’re trying to portray to everyone
Your attitude 19 months ago, when some of us were warning where things were going was smug, condescending and dangerously wrong. You refused to even consider COVID as a serious threat. If policy had been guided by people with your attitude, 2020 would have been a catastrophe like you cannot imagine.

But you ignore that. You don't reflect on how appallingly badly you called that, and how you insulted and belittled people who were (correctly) warning people what was coming. Not a word of apology or self awareness. Just launch into the next argument.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13465 on August 29, 2021, 12:20:54 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
In this current discussion, I've said, repeatedly, with evidence, that in MOST of America, the outbreak in terms of new cases is reasonably well under control. The overall USA numbers are not good and that is due to the fact that the Deep South is seeing an outbreak that is utterly out of control and has been allowed to get that way by insane libertarian policies from Trumpist state leaders.

Every word of that is fact and supported by the evidence.

But you are impossible to have an evidence-based discussion with. Because you decide your conclusion before you start. Then you look for any shred of evidence, however unrepresentative, to back that up, ignoring the mass of contradictory evidence. And when that fails you say "Well come back in 5 years and see. I'll be right then." Ignoring how utterly, totally, dangerously wrong you were when this all started.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13466 on August 29, 2021, 06:02:20 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
I've asked on here several times what level of daily deaths people would consider acceptable. Looks like the Govt has commissioned a study to determine at what point the scale of new deaths becomes economically damaging. The magic number is 137 per day.

If this is right, the reintroduction of enhanced restrictions isn't far off.

https://inews.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-privately-accepts-up-to-50000-annual-covid-deaths-as-an-acceptable-level-1170069

The source said: “The Prime Minister is minded to implement another lockdown or new restrictions only if the figure of annual deaths looks like it’s going to go above 50,000. That means deaths from Covid of 137 a day, or just under 1,000 a week.

“However, it won’t be an immediate reaction. A sustained rate of death of around a 1,000 a week for two or three weeks will, though, lead to discussion on restrictions being reimposed. Unfortunately, prime ministers have to weigh up the cost of saving lives to the impact on the economy. No one wants to talk about that’s how it works.”


7 day average daily deaths have risen from 70 at the end of last month to 110 now, even when new cases were apparently falling. It's hard to see daily deaths not going above that 137 threshold sometime in the next month or so.

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13467 on August 29, 2021, 06:33:39 pm by bpoolrover »
I've asked on here several times what level of daily deaths people would consider acceptable. Looks like the Govt has commissioned a study to determine at what point the scale of new deaths becomes economically damaging. The magic number is 137 per day.

If this is right, the reintroduction of enhanced restrictions isn't far off.

https://inews.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-privately-accepts-up-to-50000-annual-covid-deaths-as-an-acceptable-level-1170069

The source said: “The Prime Minister is minded to implement another lockdown or new restrictions only if the figure of annual deaths looks like it’s going to go above 50,000. That means deaths from Covid of 137 a day, or just under 1,000 a week.

“However, it won’t be an immediate reaction. A sustained rate of death of around a 1,000 a week for two or three weeks will, though, lead to discussion on restrictions being reimposed. Unfortunately, prime ministers have to weigh up the cost of saving lives to the impact on the economy. No one wants to talk about that’s how it works.”


7 day average daily deaths have risen from 70 at the end of last month to 110 now, even when new cases were apparently falling. It's hard to see daily deaths not going above that 137 threshold sometime in the next month or so.
it does say thou that he will only consider it if over 50k and woukd have to be over 1000k a week for 2 or 3 weeks, we're at near to 80percent double jabbed so maybe it will no rise that much more

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13468 on August 29, 2021, 06:40:06 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
I was talking the other day about the batshit Trumpist leadership in the Deep South taking them into an avoidable disaster.

This. Just...WHAT?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/tate-reeves-says-mississippians-less-scared-covid-because-they-believe-eternal-life-1624014%3famp=1

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13469 on August 29, 2021, 07:38:37 pm by bpoolrover »
I was talking the other day about the batshit Trumpist leadership in the Deep South taking them into an avoidable disaster.

This. Just...WHAT?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/tate-reeves-says-mississippians-less-scared-covid-because-they-believe-eternal-life-1624014%3famp=1
while of course it's a load of crap you could say that in this country as there are many
Religious people in this country that won't have the jab, my mate lives in Blackburn and he reckons on the estate he lives in he doubts very few if any will have had the jab
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 08:23:43 pm by bpoolrover »

 

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