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Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 429006 times)

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Ldr

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13620 on September 15, 2021, 12:06:36 pm by Ldr »
Javid was on R4 this morning. This from the BBC website.

And here's more from the health secretary, who was asked on BBC Radio 4's Today programme why the government isn't "going hard and going early" by bringing back coronavirus restrictions to prevent a winter spike in cases.

Sajid Javid says we should all recognise the impact that the toughest coronavirus measures had on other health problems, particularly undiagnosed cancer and heart disease.


What the actual f**k? He's saying lockdowns caused the backlog in the NHS being able to provide treatment for non-COVID illness. See, I thought the reason was because hospitals were inundated with COVID emergencies because we twice let outbreaks get totally out of control.

But that's Javid. Barely on nodding terms with objective truth.

You’re twisting to suit your agenda Billy as per. Patients not attending appointments rocketed during lockdown which has had a knock on affect of delaying treatments. This unfortunately will start to contribute to excess deaths now as well (though agenda driven ppl will want to attribute them to COVID, or brexit if you’re NNK). If you are going to make a song and dance about objective truth, it may not be wise to be selective about the truth in your statements



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ravenrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13621 on September 15, 2021, 03:53:38 pm by ravenrover »
I'm not worried about covid, I'm worried about other viruses and infections.  I've had 3 or 4 different things over the last 6 weeks now and it's way earlier than most years. It's having a clear impact and that's the bigger concern for me now not covid.
Have both you little uns gone to school this year BFYP?
As has been said you give them love and cuddles and in return they give you colds and norovirus

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13622 on September 15, 2021, 04:15:32 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Javid was on R4 this morning. This from the BBC website.

And here's more from the health secretary, who was asked on BBC Radio 4's Today programme why the government isn't "going hard and going early" by bringing back coronavirus restrictions to prevent a winter spike in cases.

Sajid Javid says we should all recognise the impact that the toughest coronavirus measures had on other health problems, particularly undiagnosed cancer and heart disease.


What the actual f**k? He's saying lockdowns caused the backlog in the NHS being able to provide treatment for non-COVID illness. See, I thought the reason was because hospitals were inundated with COVID emergencies because we twice let outbreaks get totally out of control.

But that's Javid. Barely on nodding terms with objective truth.

You’re twisting to suit your agenda Billy as per. Patients not attending appointments rocketed during lockdown which has had a knock on affect of delaying treatments. This unfortunately will start to contribute to excess deaths now as well (though agenda driven ppl will want to attribute them to COVID, or brexit if you’re NNK). If you are going to make a song and dance about objective truth, it may not be wise to be selective about the truth in your statements

And it was the lockdown that caused these missed appointments?

Put it another way. Do you think if we HADN'T had lockdowns, that the appointments would have taken place.

There's some serious confusing of basic causes here.

Ldr

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13623 on September 15, 2021, 04:24:46 pm by Ldr »
Javid was on R4 this morning. This from the BBC website.

And here's more from the health secretary, who was asked on BBC Radio 4's Today programme why the government isn't "going hard and going early" by bringing back coronavirus restrictions to prevent a winter spike in cases.

Sajid Javid says we should all recognise the impact that the toughest coronavirus measures had on other health problems, particularly undiagnosed cancer and heart disease.


What the actual f**k? He's saying lockdowns caused the backlog in the NHS being able to provide treatment for non-COVID illness. See, I thought the reason was because hospitals were inundated with COVID emergencies because we twice let outbreaks get totally out of control.

But that's Javid. Barely on nodding terms with objective truth.

You’re twisting to suit your agenda Billy as per. Patients not attending appointments rocketed during lockdown which has had a knock on affect of delaying treatments. This unfortunately will start to contribute to excess deaths now as well (though agenda driven ppl will want to attribute them to COVID, or brexit if you’re NNK). If you are going to make a song and dance about objective truth, it may not be wise to be selective about the truth in your statements

And it was the lockdown that caused these missed appointments?

Put it another way. Do you think if we HADN'T had lockdowns, that the appointments would have taken place.

There's some serious confusing of basic causes here.

Yes the appointments would have taken place. You put the fear of God into people, inevitability some stay at home. The workaround has been a vast increase in telephone appointments which are a poor substitute imho Billy. It masks the problem and again kicks the van down the road re, beginning treatment

Ldr

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13624 on September 15, 2021, 04:27:46 pm by Ldr »
Another issue has been the closing of beds, on a designated COVID ward a 6 bed bay becomes a 4 bed bay due to distancing requirements

drfchound

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13625 on September 15, 2021, 04:38:07 pm by drfchound »
Javid was on R4 this morning. This from the BBC website.

And here's more from the health secretary, who was asked on BBC Radio 4's Today programme why the government isn't "going hard and going early" by bringing back coronavirus restrictions to prevent a winter spike in cases.

Sajid Javid says we should all recognise the impact that the toughest coronavirus measures had on other health problems, particularly undiagnosed cancer and heart disease.


What the actual f**k? He's saying lockdowns caused the backlog in the NHS being able to provide treatment for non-COVID illness. See, I thought the reason was because hospitals were inundated with COVID emergencies because we twice let outbreaks get totally out of control.

But that's Javid. Barely on nodding terms with objective truth.

You’re twisting to suit your agenda Billy as per. Patients not attending appointments rocketed during lockdown which has had a knock on affect of delaying treatments. This unfortunately will start to contribute to excess deaths now as well (though agenda driven ppl will want to attribute them to COVID, or brexit if you’re NNK). If you are going to make a song and dance about objective truth, it may not be wise to be selective about the truth in your statements

And it was the lockdown that caused these missed appointments?

Put it another way. Do you think if we HADN'T had lockdowns, that the appointments would have taken place.

There's some serious confusing of basic causes here.

Yes the appointments would have taken place. You put the fear of God into people, inevitability some stay at home. The workaround has been a vast increase in telephone appointments which are a poor substitute imho Billy. It masks the problem and again kicks the van down the road re, beginning treatment





My wife has had her treatment delayed and the hospital have openly said it is due to the covid problem.

Ldr

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13626 on September 15, 2021, 04:42:55 pm by Ldr »
In short it’s a combination of factors pretty much all linked to COVID and the measures taken but not specifically bed availability is what I am getting at

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13627 on September 15, 2021, 04:51:42 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Another issue has been the closing of beds, on a designated COVID ward a 6 bed bay becomes a 4 bed bay due to distancing requirements

On both counts, consider the counterfactual. What would have happened to the health service if we HADN'T had lockdowns? I refer you to the carnage in Bergamo, the only place in Europe where we had a totally unmitigated spread of the virus. That was in one city, but the consequences were that the health system of the whole of Lombardia, one of the wealthiest and most developed regions on earth, almost collapsed. Scale that up to the whole UK dealing with a totally overwhelmed NHS for months and think what the effect would have been on ANY non-COVID health issues.


You and Javid are saying the hospital problems occurred because of lockdown. There is absolutely no evidence to support that. They occurred at the same time as lockdowns but there's no cause and effect link. They occurred because of the spread of the virus making people worried to attend hospital, and because of hospitals' capacity to do routine work being reduced by the many consequences of a virus that we lost control of.

Let me try a different thought experiment for you.

If we had imposed lockdowns SOONER than we did, instead of waiting until we were in crisis mode, the lockdowns would have had to remain on for a shorter period, because they'd have been starting from a less out of control spread of the virus. Hospitals would not have had to deal with so many COVID admissions.

In that scenario, do you think the NHS would have coped with other treatments better or worse than it has done?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13628 on September 15, 2021, 04:54:41 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
In short it’s a combination of factors pretty much all linked to COVID and the measures taken but not specifically bed availability is what I am getting at

I agree entirely with that. And I never said anything about bed availability. So I'm guessing that you agree that if we had controlled the virus more effectively, the knock on effects on NHS treatments would have been less severe? Which is my point. It wasn't the lockdowns that caused the problems. It was the thing that caused the lockdowns to be necessary that caused the problems. And that is the deception that Javid is pulling here. He doesn't want the Government blamed for having inexplicably delayed in imposing lockdowns. He wants the lockdowns themselves to be seen as the core of the problem.

Ldr

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13629 on September 15, 2021, 04:56:26 pm by Ldr »
If that’s your point, you are correct

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13630 on September 15, 2021, 04:58:40 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Thanks. I am genuinely not trying to mislead here. I just get annoyed when I see politicians doing so.

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13631 on September 15, 2021, 06:10:56 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
I'm not worried about covid, I'm worried about other viruses and infections.  I've had 3 or 4 different things over the last 6 weeks now and it's way earlier than most years. It's having a clear impact and that's the bigger concern for me now not covid.
Have both you little uns gone to school this year BFYP?
As has been said you give them love and cuddles and in return they give you colds and norovirus

My daughter started back end of last week so not related, I've still that bit to come.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13632 on September 15, 2021, 11:25:35 pm by SydneyRover »
From this

''95% of British adults still wearing a mask when out, says survey
Figure same as before legal requirement relaxed, while most still feel that complying with other Covid safety measures is important''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/30/95-of-british-adults-still-wearing-a-mask-outdoors-says-survey

to this

''More than 4m stopped wearing masks this summer in Britain, ONS data shows
Report comes as government scientific adviser describes Tuesday’s maskless cabinet meeting as ‘toxic’ for public adherence''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/15/more-than-4m-stopped-wearing-face-masks-this-summer-ons-data-shows

which could explain why the number of infections are still high?

ravenrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13633 on September 16, 2021, 09:51:33 am by ravenrover »
Masks mandatory on TFL? Went to London a couple of weeks back my daughter and I were the only ones in our tube carriage wearing masks mmmm!

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13634 on September 16, 2021, 10:10:19 am by SydneyRover »
Masks mandatory on TFL? Went to London a couple of weeks back my daughter and I were the only ones in our tube carriage wearing masks mmmm!

A smart move methinks.

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13635 on September 16, 2021, 10:12:11 am by big fat yorkshire pudding »
Not really. A mask doesn't prevent you getting it much remember.

There's no requirement to wear one in work or meetings, I'm not sure that cabinet reference is fair.  I certainly don't sit in one all day when in work.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13636 on September 16, 2021, 10:28:20 am by SydneyRover »
A properly fitted P2 mask protects the wearer, mask wearing encourages others to wear theirs and maybe also keep their distance.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13637 on September 16, 2021, 11:07:52 am by BillyStubbsTears »
I'm just gobsmacked at the way in which so many people stopped wearing masks the instant we got to "Freedom Day". Millions of people showing how independent they are by stopping doing one little thing that an help others.

And as for the example set by the Government. This senior SAGE member gets it. The Tories are choosing en masse to not wear masks because it sends a political message. Mask wearing is just the next phase of the Culture War.
https://twitter.com/JeremyFarrar/status/1428041188880302082?s=20

Axholme Lion

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13638 on September 16, 2021, 03:40:08 pm by Axholme Lion »
Wearing a mask is of little benefit outdoors.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13639 on September 16, 2021, 04:19:56 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Yes AL. But just look at how many people have stopped wearing them indoors. Like the entire cohort of Tory MPs as an example.

Still, good news is that the daily infections are still coming down. Longer this goes on, the more chance we have of getting the serious cases down before the winter season. If that is what happens, I'll be delighted to hold my hand up and say I got it wrong early in the Summer and the Government got it right.

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13640 on September 16, 2021, 04:23:21 pm by bpoolrover »
Not sure what the problem is with the Tories not wearing masks and several Labour not wearing masks, how many people on this board wear masks at work, ive been in many offices that are full of workers over the summer and very few wear them, so to single out mps is pretty poor foreman really, in the concourse at the rovers matches it was pretty full at Sheffield and Rotherham and again next to none wearing masks

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13641 on September 16, 2021, 04:27:36 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Our policy is always to wear masks if you are within 1m of a colleague indoors, and if you''re going to be within 2m indoors for more than 15 minutes.

There may be a few Labour MPs not wearing masks in the HoC Bpool, but it's notable that as far as I can see, not a single Tory MP is wearing one, despite them being sat shoulder to shoulder for hours. It looks like a collective policy decision to send a political message. And it runs absolutely counter to the Govt's own published advice.

Filo

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13642 on September 16, 2021, 04:31:27 pm by Filo »
Not sure what the problem is with the Tories not wearing masks and several Labour not wearing masks, how many people on this board wear masks at work, ive been in many offices that are full of workers over the summer and very few wear them, so to single out mps is pretty poor foreman really, in the concourse at the rovers matches it was pretty full at Sheffield and Rotherham and again next to none wearing masks

MP’s or rather Govt MP’s set the advice to follow, MP’s from all sides of the house should set an example and follow that advice, by not doing so it encourages the public to not bother, like you see in the concourses

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13643 on September 16, 2021, 06:49:04 pm by bpoolrover »
You are probably right they should set a example to be fair, in other news case numbers have dropped again

Axholme Lion

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13644 on September 17, 2021, 09:19:21 am by Axholme Lion »
I wear a mask if i go into a shop or cafe and if i have to deal with someone at work i don't know. I don't bother outdoors or at football grounds.

drfchound

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13645 on September 17, 2021, 09:41:53 am by drfchound »
I always wear a mask if I go into a shop or someones office out of respect.
I am entering their premises.
In supermarkets I guess mask wearers are about 50/50 now but increasingly supermarket staff don’t bother.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13646 on September 17, 2021, 10:45:04 am by Bentley Bullet »
Scawsby Steve always wears a mask. I'm not sure though if he wears one for moral purposes or because he's got more chance of pulling a bird.

Ldr

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13647 on September 17, 2021, 10:48:41 am by Ldr »
Again devils advocate. If I’m double jabbed (to protect others I am told) why do I need to wear a mask?

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13648 on September 17, 2021, 11:00:19 am by SydneyRover »
To help prevent those that cannot have a vaccine for health reasons and kids under 12. People are still getting the virus and dying even when double jabbed.

Ldr

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #13649 on September 17, 2021, 11:05:25 am by Ldr »
So the implication there is that the vaccines are not particularly effective in protecting others

 

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