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Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 584912 times)

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Bentley Bullet

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14040 on October 20, 2021, 10:52:17 am by Bentley Bullet »
They did NOT refuse to wear masks. They said:" We expect and recommend that members of the public continue to wear face coverings in crowded and enclosed spaces where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet. For example, on public transport."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own#when-you-should-wear-a-face-covering



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SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14041 on October 20, 2021, 11:00:20 am by SydneyRover »
They did NOT refuse to wear masks. They said:" We expect and recommend that members of the public continue to wear face coverings in crowded and enclosed spaces where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet. For example, on public transport."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own#when-you-should-wear-a-face-covering

But it's in enclosed spaces where you meet and greet the kids, home from school or parents from work, they don't get covid?

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14042 on October 20, 2021, 11:02:16 am by SydneyRover »

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14043 on October 20, 2021, 11:12:54 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Mood music.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58259604.amp

There is the entire Parliamentary Tory party refusing to wear masks in a crowded environment. The "people you don't normally meet" is a vacuous phrase. What does "normally" mean? Every 10 minutes? Every day? Every month?

The message that image is sending out is "you choose whether you think mask wearing is important. We don't."

Ldr

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14044 on October 20, 2021, 11:14:08 am by Ldr »
Hopefully natural selection in action BST

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14045 on October 20, 2021, 11:33:00 am by big fat yorkshire pudding »
Talking about masks is all well and good. The rules in Scotland have never changed on that yet their rates have been above England for most of the past few months.  So have masks had that much of an impact?

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14046 on October 20, 2021, 11:37:17 am by Bentley Bullet »
BST, stick to the point! They did NOT send a clear message that masks were no longer needed.



SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14047 on October 20, 2021, 11:49:55 am by SydneyRover »
BST, stick to the point! They did NOT send a clear message that masks were no longer needed.

Do as I say ....................

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14048 on October 20, 2021, 12:02:57 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
BST, stick to the point! They did NOT send a clear message that masks were no longer needed.




Be a grown up for once.

What DO you think the message was when 370 Tory MPs cram cheek by jowl on Parliamentary benches with NOT A SINGLE ONE wearing a mask?


Axholme Lion

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14049 on October 20, 2021, 12:06:48 pm by Axholme Lion »
I see the NHS are trying to bully us out of our freedoms and back into lockdowns again. Absolutely scandalous. They would have you in lockdown every year for ever and ever, amen. Do the job you signed up for and stop beefing.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14050 on October 20, 2021, 12:16:37 pm by Bentley Bullet »
BST, stick to the point! They did NOT send a clear message that masks were no longer needed.




Be a grown up for once.

What DO you think the message was when 370 Tory MPs cram cheek by jowl on Parliamentary benches with NOT A SINGLE ONE wearing a mask?




Where is there evidence of not a single one of them wearing a mask?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14051 on October 20, 2021, 12:25:59 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
BST, stick to the point! They did NOT send a clear message that masks were no longer needed.




Be a grown up for once.

What DO you think the message was when 370 Tory MPs cram cheek by jowl on Parliamentary benches with NOT A SINGLE ONE wearing a mask?




Where is there evidence of not a single one of them wearing a mask?

I apologise. There WERE two wearing masks in that photo. Theresa May and Jeremy Hunt. Go figure...

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14052 on October 20, 2021, 12:32:43 pm by SydneyRover »
                                                               



                                                               3.23%

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14053 on October 20, 2021, 12:33:21 pm by Bentley Bullet »
Once again, your figures are wrong even after correcting yourself!

Now all that remains is you correct yourself on your claim the government did not send a clear message that masks were no longer needed.

wilts rover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14054 on October 20, 2021, 01:04:53 pm by wilts rover »
So are you saying the government are hypocrites because in 'sending a clear message' they asked the general public to wear a mask but dodn't do so themselves BB? Very brave of you.

But it does fit the pattern of - one rule for one and one for another - they appear to follow.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14055 on October 20, 2021, 01:07:41 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Once again, your figures are wrong even after correcting yourself!

Now all that remains is you correct yourself on your claim the government did not send a clear message that masks were no longer needed.

Let's say every single Govt minister then. Also in photos of the Cabinet.
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/ad8b9d151379719718e3bec0011d9eb6a624e9a3/189_0_3707_2224/master/3707.jpg

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14056 on October 20, 2021, 01:13:15 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
It's surprising to say that the government many in here claim are idiots and not listened to are now being criticised for not setting an example.

I'm sure your average person in Tesco is not wearing a mask because Jacob Rees mogg didn't at pmqs.

I'll ask my question again, they're mandatory in Scotland but it didn't make a difference, why?

Some really interesting points in this article;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58954793
« Last Edit: October 20, 2021, 01:20:16 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14057 on October 20, 2021, 01:21:10 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
It appears that it HAS made a difference in Scotland. Their infection rates are way below England's. According to the ZOE app, the infection rates per 100,000 are about 700-1000 in Scotland and typically around 1300-1600 in England. They WERE higher in August, primarily because kids went back to school several weeks earlier in Scotland than in England.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14058 on October 20, 2021, 01:22:15 pm by Bentley Bullet »
Once again, your figures are wrong even after correcting yourself!

Now all that remains is you correct yourself on your claim the government did not send a clear message that masks were no longer needed.

Let's say every single Govt minister then. Also in photos of the Cabinet.
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/ad8b9d151379719718e3bec0011d9eb6a624e9a3/189_0_3707_2224/master/3707.jpg

At least you're getting closer to the truth (according to the content of that particular selected picture).

Now all that remains is you correct yourself on your claim the government sent a clear message that masks were no longer needed.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2021, 03:13:46 pm by Bentley Bullet »

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14059 on October 20, 2021, 01:30:43 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
It appears that it HAS made a difference in Scotland. Their infection rates are way below England's. According to the ZOE app, the infection rates per 100,000 are about 700-1000 in Scotland and typically around 1300-1600 in England. They WERE higher in August, primarily because kids went back to school several weeks earlier in Scotland than in England.

Concurrently they've also had their half term earlier than England, the natural break.  They also have vaccinated more teenagers which seems to be important.

Lots of other datasets in the link I posted that don't paint the doomsday scenario again being muttered.  We still don't know what the acceptable balance is for controlling the virus.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14060 on October 20, 2021, 01:47:48 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
It appears that it HAS made a difference in Scotland. Their infection rates are way below England's. According to the ZOE app, the infection rates per 100,000 are about 700-1000 in Scotland and typically around 1300-1600 in England. They WERE higher in August, primarily because kids went back to school several weeks earlier in Scotland than in England.

Concurrently they've also had their half term earlier than England, the natural break.  They also have vaccinated more teenagers which seems to be important.

Lots of other datasets in the link I posted that don't paint the doomsday scenario again being muttered.  We still don't know what the acceptable balance is for controlling the virus.

Scottish case numbers peaked on September 10th. They'd been coming down rapidly for weeks before half term. Cases in scotland have halved since early Sept. In England they are up 50%.

It doesn't help painting reasonable, evidenced concerns as "doomsday scenarios". But I really don't get what you mean about "acceptable balance". Other Western European countries have retained mitigating measures without economic disaster. That says that it absolutely IS possible to have far more control over the virus without severe costs. The real question should be, what is the basis for us once again taking a very different approach?

By the way, my bet is that we are going to have to bring back sterner measures next month. NHS bosses have been calling publicly for that today. If deaths and hospitalisations keep on increasing at current rates, we will have no option in 2-3 weeks. If that happens, we will have had many more deaths than other Western European countries over the past 6 months, and not have gained any benefit.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14061 on October 20, 2021, 01:51:40 pm by Bentley Bullet »
So are you saying the government are hypocrites because in 'sending a clear message' they asked the general public to wear a mask but dodn't do so themselves BB? Very brave of you.

But it does fit the pattern of - one rule for one and one for another - they appear to follow.

Where is there evidence of the government not wearing face coverings in places with people they don’t normally meet, for example, on public transport?

Axholme Lion

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14062 on October 20, 2021, 02:21:51 pm by Axholme Lion »
Any return to any form of lockdown should be ignored. We can't afford it and it's a waste of time. I thought this is why we were all vaccinated so we could get on with our lives again. I want a life not an existence.

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14063 on October 20, 2021, 02:34:14 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
It appears that it HAS made a difference in Scotland. Their infection rates are way below England's. According to the ZOE app, the infection rates per 100,000 are about 700-1000 in Scotland and typically around 1300-1600 in England. They WERE higher in August, primarily because kids went back to school several weeks earlier in Scotland than in England.

Concurrently they've also had their half term earlier than England, the natural break.  They also have vaccinated more teenagers which seems to be important.

Lots of other datasets in the link I posted that don't paint the doomsday scenario again being muttered.  We still don't know what the acceptable balance is for controlling the virus.

Scottish case numbers peaked on September 10th. They'd been coming down rapidly for weeks before half term. Cases in scotland have halved since early Sept. In England they are up 50%.

It doesn't help painting reasonable, evidenced concerns as "doomsday scenarios". But I really don't get what you mean about "acceptable balance". Other Western European countries have retained mitigating measures without economic disaster. That says that it absolutely IS possible to have far more control over the virus without severe costs. The real question should be, what is the basis for us once again taking a very different approach?

By the way, my bet is that we are going to have to bring back sterner measures next month. NHS bosses have been calling publicly for that today. If deaths and hospitalisations keep on increasing at current rates, we will have no option in 2-3 weeks. If that happens, we will have had many more deaths than other Western European countries over the past 6 months, and not have gained any benefit.

My point is what mitgating circumstances have these countries adopted that Wales and Scotland have not?  England isn't massively different to many of these countries and those two less so.  Scotland has seen decreases from a very high level, Wales is past it's highest peak currently and England increasing.  If it's just masks and covid passes, Wales proves that doesn't work.  Are there many more things other countries are doing that we are not?

You mention sterner measures what are they going to be?  That's the link to balance, is for example closing football grounds again acceptable on balance vs the amount of deaths?

Time and time again we hear it will be a disaster in the NHS shortly, we had it in June, July, August and September then cases drop off again.  This time we may not see that, we will see, but people will question that when it keeps failing to happen.

drfchound

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14064 on October 20, 2021, 04:01:33 pm by drfchound »
I am someone who doesn’t watch PMQs on the telly and having had a quick look at some of the above posts I am assuming that all other MPs ( besides the Tory ones] are wearing masks in there and showing the government how responsible they ( the others) are.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14065 on October 20, 2021, 05:36:13 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
BFYP.

I don't know the ins and outs of every country's actions, but  England clearly has one of the most open, laissez-faire approaches. And the tone of the message from the leaders matters too. Our Govt has given a business as usual tone for months. In Scotland they have a mask mandate and vaccine passports. And their infection rate is a fraction of ours and falling. Draw your own conclusions.

You say we keep hearing it will be a disaster in the NHS. Winter is fast approaching and there are hospitals with virtually every ICU bed taken up by COVID patients. At the very, very least the NHS is streteched and has been stretched for months, well before the inevitable Winter problems.

Meanwhile, today's figures show that the rise in cases, hospitalisations and deaths continues apace...

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14066 on October 20, 2021, 06:01:11 pm by bpoolrover »
Between January and July there were around 50k covid deaths 640 were fully vaccinated, if that trend has carried on which I can't find at the min should we really need extra measures?of course many were not fully vaccinated then and the numbers won't be the same
« Last Edit: October 20, 2021, 06:15:45 pm by bpoolrover »

albie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14067 on October 20, 2021, 06:15:30 pm by albie »
Blackpool,

In the UK, 75% of those vaxxed have not had their booster yet. We know that immunity weakens over time, so getting the extra jab is important before winter sets in.

Pud,

Scotland is colder than England, so activities move indoors earlier.
One factor to be considered.

Deaths are a lagging indicator, so the infections recorded now will translate into higher losses in November.
That is why we are getting the early warning siren now!

bpoolrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14068 on October 20, 2021, 06:29:59 pm by bpoolrover »
Wonder why this is unless i heard wrong a fifth of people in critical care are pregnant women or women that have just given birth, anyone shed any light on why that would be?

albie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #14069 on October 20, 2021, 06:39:40 pm by albie »
Pregnant women were vaccine hesitant, because they were concerned about the effects on the unborn child.
The evidence has emerged that it is better for mother and baby to have protection, because Covid poses a greater risk.

Expectant mums are a sub-group of the unvaxxed vulnerable, along with the vax deniers, but for different reasons.

The real issue is the % of unvaxxed to fully vaxxed in hospital, and how that might change as the 6 month protection wears off.

 

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