Coronavirus

[Nudga]

How come when I got covid, I felt a bit shit for a few days, had one day off work and was back to my normal self afters couple of weeks (zero jabs) my three kids (zero jabs) didn't catch it at all.
My missus (3 jabs) got it a month after me and she had the same symptoms as me.

Because her jab was designed for a virus that no longer exists.

And me and my kids?

[Nudga]

Nudga.

Maybe you were one of the lucky ones who didn't have a bad dose. It happens. And it would go some way to balance the bad luck you've had in personally knowing so many people who've had their lives ruined by the vaccine.

Good point well put.

[BillyStubbsTears]

HIV for one.

Fair enough, I didn’t know that.

Any examples of respiratory viruses?

I've seen some evidence that the virulence of Ebola increased over time but I don't know if that's nailed on.

Not a respiratory virus

My mistake. Thanks for pointing it out. Then no, I don't know off the top of my head of respiratory viruses that have increased in virulence.

[Nudga]

https://twitter.com/JamesfWells/status/1569348305553092608?t=4k_NSDdVOVAYCyyyindNnQ&s=19

[River Don]

It's a strange virus. I know a 90 year old who çaught it at the outset of the crisis and was barely touched by it. He lost his sense of taste and that was about it.

I also know a lad in his mid 30s who had it and suffered an embolism. It literally blew the side of his head off! The surgeon started work and the side of his skull flew off under such pressure the bone hit the wall of the theatre. Frankly he should not be alive but the doctors at Hull were some kind of miracle workers.

Anecdotal evidence isn't really helpful. The truth is in the numbers.

[Bristol Red Rover]

It's a strange virus. I know a 90 year old who çaught it at the outset of the crisis and was barely touched by it. He lost his sense of taste and that was about it.

I also know a lad in his mid 30s who had it and suffered an embolism. It literally blew the side of his head off! The surgeon started work and the side of his skull flew off under such pressure the bone hit the wall of the theatre. Frankly he should not be alive but the doctors at Hull were some kind of miracle workers.

Anecdotal evidence isn't really helpful. The truth is in the numbers.

I agree the numbers ultimately can have more relevance, however they usually don't take into account such factors as pre existing conditions. The classic eg of this is the numbers of people dying *with* covid. Probably over half the references to those numbers state people dying of covid.

In an "anecdotal" style of survey, if done well,  there can be a good opportunity to uncover complex situations that can lead towards greater understanding, including informing research that uses the larger numbers but with some bouse. Numbers by themselves are frequently used for purposes. Pharma companies do it all the time,  obviously they do.

[Bristol Red Rover]

HIV for one.

Fair enough, I didn’t know that.

Any examples of respiratory viruses?

More relevant would be looking at corona viruses,  eg colds.

[SydneyRover]

Any contributing factors to death are stated on death certificates.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's a strange virus. I know a 90 year old who çaught it at the outset of the crisis and was barely touched by it. He lost his sense of taste and that was about it.

I also know a lad in his mid 30s who had it and suffered an embolism. It literally blew the side of his head off! The surgeon started work and the side of his skull flew off under such pressure the bone hit the wall of the theatre. Frankly he should not be alive but the doctors at Hull were some kind of miracle workers.

Anecdotal evidence isn't really helpful. The truth is in the numbers.

I agree the numbers ultimately can have more relevance, however they usually don't take into account such factors as pre existing conditions. The classic eg of this is the numbers of people dying *with* covid. Probably over half the references to those numbers state people dying of covid.

In an "anecdotal" style of survey, if done well,  there can be a good opportunity to uncover complex situations that can lead towards greater understanding, including informing research that uses the larger numbers but with some bouse. Numbers by themselves are frequently used for purposes. Pharma companies do it all the time,  obviously they do.

Done to death (sic).

The ONS dealt with this ages ago. On average, people who died WITH (I'll indulge you) COVID lost 10-11 years of life. In other words, they weren't about to drop dead and COVID finished them off.

I do wonder whether the people who lazily trot out this "they died WITH, not OF COVID! They had pre-existing conditions!" bullshit ever stop and wonder what they are implicitly saying.

[Bristol Red Rover]

HIV for one.

Fair enough, I didn’t know that.

Any examples of respiratory viruses?

More relevant w

Here's a simple explainer.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/debunking-idea-viruses-evolve-virulent/story%3fid=82052581

More detailed academic studies available if you prefer.

As a matter of principle, I do try not to sound off on stuff without decent evidence.

“In some cases, viruses evolve to become more virulent.” Such as…

Classic dumbed down article. One of many that twists info whilst making out it is science based to imply the danger of covid. As mentioned elsewhere, comparing respiratory viruses might be wise, looking at the virus species is even wiser.

Media rarely does science well,  many scientists don't do science well.

[Bristol Red Rover]

It's a strange virus. I know a 90 year old who çaught it at the outset of the crisis and was barely touched by it. He lost his sense of taste and that was about it.

I also know a lad in his mid 30s who had it and suffered an embolism. It literally blew the side of his head off! The surgeon started work and the side of his skull flew off under such pressure the bone hit the wall of the theatre. Frankly he should not be alive but the doctors at Hull were some kind of miracle workers.

Anecdotal evidence isn't really helpful. The truth is in the numbers.

I agree the numbers ultimately can have more relevance, however they usually don't take into account such factors as pre existing conditions. The classic eg of this is the numbers of people dying *with* covid. Probably over half the references to those numbers state people dying of covid.

In an "anecdotal" style of survey, if done well,  there can be a good opportunity to uncover complex situations that can lead towards greater understanding, including informing research that uses the larger numbers but with some bouse. Numbers by themselves are frequently used for purposes. Pharma companies do it all the time,  obviously they do.

Done to death (sic).

The ONS dealt with this ages ago. On average, people who died WITH (I'll indulge you) COVID lost 10-11 years of life. In other words, they weren't about to drop dead and COVID finished them off.

I do wonder whether the people who lazily trot out this "they died WITH, not OF COVID! They had pre-existing conditions!" bullshit ever stop and wonder what they are implicitly saying.

Sorry, but to say folks lost an average of x years, and then to dismiss that some of them were health compromised and so would have died from a number of changes in circumstances, eg getting a cold, is not handling stats well. And then the many who died from falling off a ladder etc etc.

I very much recognise that covid is a serious illness. There's no need to exaggerate it,  and much of the stats do if used wrong, and that happens a lot.

No need to feel you have to indulge me. It's a basic scientific and logical fact. I can't see how you can ignore it?

[SydneyRover]

Those falling of ladders have been taken into account.

''Overall, the number of people who have died from Covid-19 to end-July 2022 is 180,000, about 1 in 8 of all deaths in England and Wales during the pandemic''

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/deaths-covid-19

[Bristol Red Rover]

Those falling of ladders have been taken into account.

''Overall, the number of people who have died from Covid-19 to end-July 2022 is 180,000, about 1 in 8 of all deaths in England and Wales during the pandemic''

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/deaths-covid-19

Thanks for the illustration of what I said in  Reply #16716 . An organisation that cites a mention of people dying with covid as being people dying of covid. You have to question their motive as well as their professionalism and very basic scientific ability.

[ncRover]

HIV for one.

Fair enough, I didn’t know that.

Any examples of respiratory viruses?

More relevant w

Here's a simple explainer.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/debunking-idea-viruses-evolve-virulent/story%3fid=82052581

More detailed academic studies available if you prefer.

As a matter of principle, I do try not to sound off on stuff without decent evidence.

“In some cases, viruses evolve to become more virulent.” Such as…

Classic dumbed down article. One of many that twists info whilst making out it is science based to imply the danger of covid. As mentioned elsewhere, comparing respiratory viruses might be wise, looking at the virus species is even wiser.

Media rarely does science well,  many scientists don't do science well.

Released at a time when media propaganda was still rife. New variant - be scared, governments please buy more vaccines than you need.

[ncRover]

HIV for one.

Fair enough, I didn’t know that.

Any examples of respiratory viruses?

More relevant w

Here's a simple explainer.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/debunking-idea-viruses-evolve-virulent/story%3fid=82052581

More detailed academic studies available if you prefer.

As a matter of principle, I do try not to sound off on stuff without decent evidence.

“In some cases, viruses evolve to become more virulent.” Such as…

Classic dumbed down article. One of many that twists info whilst making out it is science based to imply the danger of covid. As mentioned elsewhere, comparing respiratory viruses might be wise, looking at the virus species is even wiser.

Media rarely does science well,  many scientists don't do science well.

Exactly yes, look at the virus species. A usual coronavirus is a common cold.

The last coronavirus pandemic may have been Russian flu over 100 years ago, but not confirmed if that was actually a flu or CV.

Anyway, I doubt people were forced to stay at home / discriminated based upon medical status for that one.

Perhaps the (likely) lab leak increased the fear.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I'm not sure there has ever been a general lock in for any illness before. It was clearly a trial and convenient for some reason. A reason beyond health care. .

[BillyStubbsTears]

There were lockdowns because all the evidence said there'd be 4-500k deaths in two months without them, and ten times the demand for hospital beds that we could service.

Why are we still talking about this?

[Panda]

It was the biggest psychological experiment in human history. Nothing to do with a deadly virus by and large.

I've seen some home made certificates doing the rounds that say something along the lines of:

UNVACCINATED

WELL DONE! YOU PASSED THE BIGGEST PSYCHOLOGICAL EXPERIMENT IN HISTORY!

Meaning that anyone who had remained unjabbed these past few years had managed to overcome the test of intensive psychological manipulation from pretty much every angle.

The issue i have with this though is that it is a lot harder for a 60 year old with health conditions to remain steadfast and put inevitable doubts to one side to remain unjabbed than it is a fit, healthy 25 year old who would have known that they were at no risk.

I'd say anyone under 40 who is healthy did well to remain unjabbed but the top accolades go to those over 40 and particularly those with medical conditions.

There is no doubt though that Covid was a psychological experiment on so many levels. As to why? No idea yet but it still is and i am awaiting the inevitable call for masks and vaccine passports this winter.

MP Maggie Throup admitted in the last few days that there is scope for reintroducing vaccine passports in the winter for access to venues if our useless NHS can't cope and the Government have the option to 'toggle on' and 'toggle off' mandates.

Our NHS is under the pump EVERY winter so hold onto your hats!

[Panda]

There were lockdowns because all the evidence said there'd be 4-500k deaths in two months without them, and ten times the demand for hospital beds that we could service.

Why are we still talking about this?

Evidence said? Don't you mean vastly incorrect modelling said?

[BillyStubbsTears]

No.

As I've said repeatedly, there was only one place in the entire world where they had an unmitigated outbreak. It went pretty much precisely as the modelling predictions said it would. It was a f**king nightmare.

I've asked time and again and never got so much as a grunt in reply. Why do you think it would have been any different here?

[Panda]

There have been scientists looking into the Italian cases. It is now widely thought that Covid was circulating as early as September 2019. Samples taken from patient blood and also water samples in Italy confirmed this, as did an increase in people going into hospital in Italy, France and other countries in November / December 2019 with unusual pneumonia type symptoms.

Which is what i had end of Nov and throughout Dec 2019.

The sudden claim that health services in Italy would be overwhelmed in March 2020 is nonsense and it needs looking into as the virus had already been here 6 months and the Italians were first to opt for the propaganda and Chinese style lockdown which is also being looked into.

China told the world about Covid in Jan 2020. We locked down at the end of March so literally 3 months later. It is realistic to believe that the Chinese wanted to sit on the fact that Covid had got out for as long as they could until they realised they had to tell the world.

So how long was this info sat on for? A month? Two months?

Covid was already widespread around the world months before we were told.

No reason to suggest that Italian hospitals would randomly start becoming overwhelmed about 6 months after Covid was circulating.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Widely thought by who?

[Ldr]

Careful Billy, he’s two posts away from shitting on the chess board……

[Bristol Red Rover]

There were lockdowns because all the evidence said there'd be 4-500k deaths in two months without them, and ten times the demand for hospital beds that we could service.

Why are we still talking about this?

Partly because some would still do lockdown even knowing what the virus is capable of. ie it is not the killer it was feared to be. Following a request a while back from you to say what should have been done, I suggested a while back what we should have done. No response from you.

[Bristol Red Rover]

No.

As I've said repeatedly, there was only one place in the entire world where they had an unmitigated outbreak. It went pretty much precisely as the modelling predictions said it would. It was a f**king nightmare.

I've asked time and again and never got so much as a grunt in reply. Why do you think it would have been any different here?

Is that the fag smoking northern Italians?

[BillyStubbsTears]

No.

As I've said repeatedly, there was only one place in the entire world where they had an unmitigated outbreak. It went pretty much precisely as the modelling predictions said it would. It was a f**king nightmare.

I've asked time and again and never got so much as a grunt in reply. Why do you think it would have been any different here?

Is that the fag smoking northern Italians?

You're really not worth reacting to

[Panda]

Denmark ban Covid vaccines for under 50's.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Denmark ban Covid vaccines for under 50's.

No they haven't. They are simply limiting free vaccines to the over 50s. Just like the UK.

Please don't spread this misinformation.

[Panda]

It is no longer being offered to under 50's and thus is now unavailable for under 50's. Replace the word 'ban' with 'withdrawn' then. Same thing really in many ways.

Withdrawn as the benefits are seen to be not greater than the risks according to some reports.

[Colin C No.3]

Replace ‘some reports’ with ‘a few reports I have stumbled across’.

Not really the same thing is it?

I however would happily state categorically that your views on covid & vaccination’s against covid are (on this forum) in the minority.

You’ve made your views long (very, very long) to the point of tedium so please, do us a favour.