Ozturk - give him a Yellow ....

[BillyStubbsTears]

pib.

I take it you've not been watching Ennis that closely then? His touch to outwit Willis and force Ozturk into the handball was utterly exquisite, and the rate at which he turned and got up to full speed was very impressive.

As for his finishing, I'm not sure we've seen enough to judge, although his goal against Lincoln suggests that your judgement may be being influenced by the wish to make a point than by a sober appraisal of the lad's ability?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLhPOUUHiPY

In any case, Ennis's finishing ability wouldn't be assessed by the ref. The second "O" in DOGSO is the key word.

[Bentley Bullet]

If Ozturk didn't handle the ball in order to deny an obvious goalscoring opportunity (DOGSO), why did he handle it?

[drfchound]

You have a more favourable view of Ennis's pace, touch and composure in front of goal than I do.

Be interesting to know if there are any qualified officials on here and whether they have a view.

It doesn’t matter who the player was or is though pib.
Would it change your opinion if it had been Jamie Vardy breaking clear?

[IDM]

If Ozturk didn't handle the ball in order to deny an obvious goalscoring opportunity (DOGSO), why did he handle it?

He handled to stop Ennis getting the ball, dogso or not..

Wonder if Taylor hadn’t stopped immediately to appeal to the ref, whether a red card might have been given.?

[pib]

pib.

I take it you've not been watching Ennis that closely then? His touch to outwit Willis and force Ozturk into the handball was utterly exquisite, and the rate at which he turned and got up to full speed was very impressive.

As for his finishing, I'm not sure we've seen enough to judge, although his goal against Lincoln suggests that your judgement may be being influenced by the wish to make a point than by a sober appraisal of the lad's ability?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLhPOUUHiPY

In any case, Ennis's finishing ability wouldn't be assessed by the ref. The second "O" in DOGSO is the key word.

It was a tongue in cheek comment Billy, but as it happens, yes I have been watching Ennis pretty closely, albeit the only time I've watched "the incident" was from about 400 yards away in the away end at the SOL.

I know I'll be shot down for this, but f**k it, since you asked here we go. I think the kid is doing OK for us, but I think his performances have been massively over-estimated at times by our fans because any alternatives we've had up front all season have been largely dreadful, and Ennis has been the best we've had.

I don't doubt he's an honest lad and has got some ability about him, but, especially in recent weeks, the more I've watched of him the more I've seen him look lethargic, clumsy and offering very little goal threat. No doubt there are mitigating circumstances for that with his age and level of experience, but having watched the rest of his performance on Friday, would I have expected him to burst through on goal from 45 yards and score? Probably not.

As for his finishing ability - I agree that we probably haven't seen enough, but I wouldn't say that's about the games he's played, more that he very rarely gets into scoring positions. He does bring other things to the team, but he's played 21 times this season and scored 2 which I think tells a story.

I am aware that he scored a fantastic goal against Lincoln - should I be rushing to judge that the lad is a great finisher off the back of that? Or is your judgement being influenced by the wish to make a point?

I think I'll call it a day with this thread now - if you believe that Ozturk denied a clear GSO and should've been sent off, fair enough.

[pib]

You have a more favourable view of Ennis's pace, touch and composure in front of goal than I do.

Be interesting to know if there are any qualified officials on here and whether they have a view.

It doesn’t matter who the player was or is though pib.
Would it change your opinion if it had been Jamie Vardy breaking clear?

No. Hope that helps.

[drfchound]

You have a more favourable view of Ennis's pace, touch and composure in front of goal than I do.

Be interesting to know if there are any qualified officials on here and whether they have a view.

It doesn’t matter who the player was or is though pib.
Would it change your opinion if it had been Jamie Vardy breaking clear?

No. Hope that helps.

Doesn’t make a scrap of difference to me.

[Bentley Bullet]

If Ozturk didn't handle the ball in order to deny an obvious goalscoring opportunity (DOGSO), why did he handle it?

He handled to stop Ennis getting the ball, dogso or not..

Wonder if Taylor hadn’t stopped immediately to appeal to the ref, whether a red card might have been given.?

Ozturk handled to stop Ennis getting the ball and succeeded. He knew that if Ennis got the ball he would have an obvious goalscoring opportunity.

[IDM]

But at the same time creating one for Taylor..

We can go around in circles forever with this..  some of us think it was a red card, others think the yellow was correct.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Let me get this right pib. You've given your definitive take on the incident based on having only seen it from that distance, once, in real time? (That's tongue in cheek by the way.)

For what it's worth, if you DO get a chance to see the video footage, the strength, intelligence and touch that Ennis showed to create that opportunity was simply breathtaking. As the high, 50 yard long clearance from Whiteman came down to him on the full, he had Willis up his arse, both of them running to where the ball was about to land. He glanced over his shoulder to see that there was 15-20 yards of space between the two of them and Ozturk in Sunderland's half. He then slowed and held Willis off, with the ball still falling and it looked like the very best he could do was hold the ball up. Instead, he flicked the ball, on the full, with his right heel, around the right hand side of Willis and into the gap between them and Ozturk. Simultaneously, he peeled off around the left of Willis, who grabbed hold of him with both hands. Ennis fought him off,left him behind and sprinted after the ball which had bounced and sat up to be nodded past Ozturk.

I'm not exaggerating a word of that. It was scintillating. If that had occurred in El Classico, it would be repeated as nauseum.

PS: For anyone who has an IFollow subscription, the footage of the whole match is available on-line and the action in question occurs at about 1:15:50 into the video. Well worth looking at. I've never seen that combination of strength, quick-wittedness, touch and speed of application from a Rovers player.


It also shows why the chance that fell to Taylor after the handball was significantly less clear than the one that Ennis would have had. Taylor had to make up a huge anount of ground to get to the loose ball, meaning that both Willis and Lynch were able to close in on him. He had a heavy touch as he was running flat out and stumbled as he did so.

[Danensian]

Of the two incidents I thought the one in the home game was deserving of a red card because there was no defensive cover and there were two Rovers players in a position to get on to the ball with only the keeper to beat.  The fact that the incident took place just inside the Sunderland half should have been irrelevant.  In Friday's game the referee's decision to allow the advantage was correct and Taylor should have done better when he got clear than lose his footing.

[donnievic]

Let me get this right pib. You've given your definitive take on the incident based on having only seen it from that distance, once, in real time? (That's tongue in cheek by the way.)

For what it's worth, if you DO get a chance to see the video footage, the strength, intelligence and touch that Ennis showed to create that opportunity was simply breathtaking. As the high, 50 yard long clearance from Whiteman came down to him on the full, he had Willis up his arse, both of them running to where the ball was about to land. He glanced over his shoulder to see that there was 15-20 yards of space between the two of them and Ozturk in Sunderland's half. He then slowed and held Willis off, with the ball still falling and it looked like the very best he could do was hold the ball up. Instead, he flicked the ball, on the full, with his right heel, around the right hand side of Willis and into the gap between them and Ozturk. Simultaneously, he peeled off around the left of Willis, who grabbed hold of him with both hands. Ennis fought him off,left him behind and sprinted after the ball which had bounced and sat up to be nodded past Ozturk.

I'm not exaggerating a word of that. It was scintillating. If that had occurred in El Classico, it would be repeated as nauseum.

PS: For anyone who has an IFollow subscription, the footage of the whole match is available on-line and the action in question occurs at about 1:15:50 into the video. Well worth looking at. I've never seen that combination of strength, quick-wittedness, touch and speed of application from a Rovers player.


It also shows why the chance that fell to Taylor after the handball was significantly less clear than the one that Ennis would have had. Taylor had to make up a huge anount of ground to get to the loose ball, meaning that both Willis and Lynch were able to close in on him. He had a heavy touch as he was running flat out and stumbled as he did so.

your saying that with help from a video replay but the ref only gets one look aswell albeit a lot closer to the action the the fans

[donnievic]

Of the two incidents I thought the one in the home game was deserving of a red card because there was no defensive cover and there were two Rovers players in a position to get on to the ball with only the keeper to beat.  The fact that the incident took place just inside the Sunderland half should have been irrelevant.  In Friday's game the referee's decision to allow the advantage was correct and Taylor should have done better when he got clear than lose his footing.

there was,the left back would of got round and covered

[PDX_Rover]

The thing that p1sses me off is it’s deliberate foul play. Ozturk knew that if he didn’t stop the ball, we had a clear goal scoring opportunity.

As a result of Ozturk’s actions, Ennis hasn’t had the opportunity on goal he would have, same as if Ozturk, as the last man, would have hauled Ennis down.

The outcome is the same.

The fact that it fell to Taylor is irrelevant. I’m sure if the ball had been a bit lower Ozturk would have caught it with both hands.

It really should be a sending off offence.

Morally, it is precisely the sort of "professional foul" that the DOGSO ruling was introduced to penalise.

Exactly... if the ball was past Ozturk and then he hauls Enniss down as the last man, preventing a clear run on goal and a goal scoring opportunity, deliberate handball to prevent same goal scoring opportunity is surely worthy of the same punishment? To say otherwise is splitting hairs surely?