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Author Topic: Lack of mesters  (Read 8397 times)

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Filo

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #30 on February 22, 2020, 08:25:49 pm by Filo »
The decision not to play Sadlier in the recent games is just bizarre, and I think
DM needs to explain it.

He’d been in arguably his best form of the season and is our biggest goal threat by some distance. The tinkering with the team is crazy. DM shouldn’t be above criticism, this has been poor management.

I might be wrong, but my theory is it could be something to do with him not signing a contract yet



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Pancho Regan

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #31 on February 22, 2020, 08:27:46 pm by Pancho Regan »
The decision not to play Sadlier in the recent games is just bizarre, and I think
DM needs to explain it.

He’d been in arguably his best form of the season and is our biggest goal threat by some distance. The tinkering with the team is crazy. DM shouldn’t be above criticism, this has been poor management.

Agreed Jonathan.

I sincerely hope it’s nothing to do with Sadlier not having signed his contract offer.
We need to keep this player.

tyke1962

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #32 on February 22, 2020, 08:29:20 pm by tyke1962 »
Bang on tyke.
We will face a virtual rebuild again in summer as well as probably losing some of our own players, people like Sadlier who will be getting totally brassed off at being left out of the team when he clearly is one of our better ones.


If you'd had Wilks and Kane signed up last season but had to sell them on after narrowly missing out in the play offs then the budget last summer would have been extremely significant .

I take the point it's hypothetical but it underlines what I'm trying to say about revenue creation .

There's more money to be created in player sales than ST's and sponsorship .

My club have a financial edge over yourselves not because we get a few more through the gate but because we sell players on regularly for millions of pounds .

Which isn't to say it's not without flaws but at league one level it stacks up tremendously .




Pancho Regan

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #33 on February 22, 2020, 08:30:06 pm by Pancho Regan »
I really think the big issue is the number of loanees.
If you have 5 loan players playing every week, every season , it's all but half the team. You don't get promoted, the loan players go back (maybe even if you do as well) and so it goes on.
We've a huge re-building job this summer. Should Sadlier go (very likely) we need to bring in a minimum of 6 players who are tried and tested at this level, permanent signings, not loanees.
That will probably cost more money than we're prepared to spend. Or maybe not, who knows.
Loans are not the way forward. IMO obvs


Agree I think the huge reliance on loans is definitely having an adverse effect on your ability to get out of league one and become a championship club .

It's perfectly fine to keep you stable at this level but that's obviously not the end game at Rovers .

If your better young players are loans then you aren't creating future revenue when they can be sold on at a good profit and give you an edge in League One .

Loans with an option to buy is perhaps worth looking at in the summer as an alternative strategy .

Yeah, perhaps we need to ditch our strategy and adopt Barnsley’s.

Much more sustainable.

since-1969

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #34 on February 22, 2020, 08:41:10 pm by since-1969 »
Is it the contractural delay at the root perhaps .

drfchound

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #35 on February 22, 2020, 08:45:37 pm by drfchound »
The decision not to play Sadlier in the recent games is just bizarre, and I think
DM needs to explain it.

He’d been in arguably his best form of the season and is our biggest goal threat by some distance. The tinkering with the team is crazy. DM shouldn’t be above criticism, this has been poor management.

I might be wrong, but my theory is it could be something to do with him not signing a contract yet






It might be of course but it will hardly be encouraging him to do so.
If it is as you say though it is poor management to leave one of your best players out to spite him at the detriment of results.

Drover

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #36 on February 22, 2020, 08:46:36 pm by Drover »
The decision not to play Sadlier in the recent games is just bizarre, and I think
DM needs to explain it.

He’d been in arguably his best form of the season and is our biggest goal threat by some distance. The tinkering with the team is crazy. DM shouldn’t be above criticism, this has been poor management.

I might be wrong, but my theory is it could be something to do with him not signing a contract yet

IF it is,and IF it was a case of DM trying to show Sad's,we can win games with or without him,it's not worked so far,and DM should pick,what he thinks is the best players to make a matchday team,to have the best chance of winning.Others are employed at the club to deal with players contracts.But it is an IF,I have no idea why he has dropped him recently.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 08:51:55 pm by Drover »

RoversAlias

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #37 on February 22, 2020, 08:53:17 pm by RoversAlias »
I think we do have leaders in this team, mainly Anderson and Whiteman, Copps too. They all shout and marshal team mates on the field.

Shrewsbury were awful today for niggly fouls, complaining and just generally being bas**rds. I don't like it personally and that side is going nowhere under Ricketts. Yes they won today's game (on another day we would have won, we were unlucky really) but there is little quality. It was also the most dead atmosphere I think I've ever experienced in this league.

Anyway, I don't know if what we are missing is "mesters". We do lack experience and with it that game savvy, not enough of our squad has that unfortunately.

I'm not going to lose sleep over today's result to be honest, but the top six is looking very unlikely now.

tyke1962

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #38 on February 22, 2020, 09:01:32 pm by tyke1962 »
I really think the big issue is the number of loanees.
If you have 5 loan players playing every week, every season , it's all but half the team. You don't get promoted, the loan players go back (maybe even if you do as well) and so it goes on.
We've a huge re-building job this summer. Should Sadlier go (very likely) we need to bring in a minimum of 6 players who are tried and tested at this level, permanent signings, not loanees.
That will probably cost more money than we're prepared to spend. Or maybe not, who knows.
Loans are not the way forward. IMO obvs


Agree I think the huge reliance on loans is definitely having an adverse effect on your ability to get out of league one and become a championship club .

It's perfectly fine to keep you stable at this level but that's obviously not the end game at Rovers .

If your better young players are loans then you aren't creating future revenue when they can be sold on at a good profit and give you an edge in League One .

Loans with an option to buy is perhaps worth looking at in the summer as an alternative strategy .

Yeah, perhaps we need to ditch our strategy and adopt Barnsley’s.

Much more sustainable.


As I said it's not without flaws and doesn't work in the championship although we have a little more hope than we had a fortnight ago .

We will lose players in the summer should we be relegated there's no doubt about that , we may even lose them should we survive .

There's no way Woodrow is leaving Oakwell for less than £10m in the summer and he's just one of four who will bring in very good revenue .

He cost us £1.1m in August 2018 .

We had £1.1m to spend as a League One club because we sold Bradshaw to Millwall for a similar amount .

Bradshaw cost us £500k in 2016 .

This is the point of the model , we've come down to League One in the past without a penny to scratch our asses with and relied on the owners generosity to punch the weight .

I understand the Rovers top brass are doing similar but it's not sustainable in my opinion .

When our owner was owed £12m and at the bottom of league one in 2015 things clearly had to change .

The model doesn't deliver utopia by any means but I'm struggling to find a better alternative with the way football is today that gives us championship football even as difficult as it is and remain financially solvent .

bpoolrover

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #39 on February 22, 2020, 10:00:25 pm by bpoolrover »
Barnsley donut the right way as Peterborough do buy players that are quality and sell them on, eventually you will become a steady championship club, I think rovers board have done brilliant for us I just wish they would take a little gamble now and again

tyke1962

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #40 on February 22, 2020, 10:50:42 pm by tyke1962 »
Barnsley donut the right way as Peterborough do buy players that are quality and sell them on, eventually you will become a steady championship club, I think rovers board have done brilliant for us I just wish they would take a little gamble now and again


We haven't got everything right by any means and neither have Posh who despite decent revenue brought in still remain a league one club and probably will be next season too .

It's taken far too much time for my club to realise that young players especially at this level need experience around them .

Finally in January we get a 29 year old in with a huge wealth of experience in at centre back and after a couple of bedding in games has become a leader in the back four and now we don't look so vulnerable .

It's a shame we didn't do it last summer when almost everyone could see how vulnerable we were with so many young recruits .

The two lads up front for us are simply immense , Chaplin has 12 goals and Woodrow 13 for a combined fee of £2.3m .

You can't buy 25 championship goals for that kind of money in this day and age you just simply can't .

We will possibly still go down but I'm far more encouraged that lessons in our model have been learnt and we will be smarter going forward .

This is how we have to look at things and it's the same at Rovers , it's an ongoing process .

Far too much instant solutions narratives around fans today .

We are what we are , small clubs in south yorkshire trying to compete or get to one of Europe's top leagues full of big clubs and mega bucks .




bpoolrover

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #41 on February 22, 2020, 10:59:24 pm by bpoolrover »
I think you will go down tyke but you will be very strong next year,being favourites to go up and knowing you will be challenging will get you the better players

tyke1962

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #42 on February 22, 2020, 11:19:17 pm by tyke1962 »
I think you will go down tyke but you will be very strong next year,being favourites to go up and knowing you will be challenging will get you the better players

When Woodrow goes in the summer I want Tyler Walker from Forest as his replacement ..... all day long .

Right age for us and with what Woodrow should bring in affordable .

If we can keep Connor Chaplin at the club we will be good to go next season offensively .

No guarantees mind .

The Red Baron

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #43 on February 23, 2020, 09:54:04 am by The Red Baron »
I think you will go down tyke but you will be very strong next year,being favourites to go up and knowing you will be challenging will get you the better players

If Barnsley do go down, and after yesterday's result they've given themselves a chance, they'll do what Rotherham have done this season.

phil old leake

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #44 on February 23, 2020, 10:25:31 am by phil old leake »
Big fear for me is at the end of the season. All the loanees go back and the pre season is spent trying to get more loans and we are back where we started

Jonathan

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #45 on February 23, 2020, 10:53:15 am by Jonathan »
Big fear for me is at the end of the season. All the loanees go back and the pre season is spent trying to get more loans and we are back where we started

And not just the loanees. I can’t see why Sadlier would stay when the manager has dropped him for games that we needed to win, and it’ll become harder to persuade Whiteman and Anderson to resist interest that’s likely to come in.

Despite what was considered a busy transfer window, I think we’re barely at double figures for the number of players contracted beyond the current campaign. It’s a growing task year on year.

southwestexile

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #46 on February 23, 2020, 11:03:43 am by southwestexile »
There are so many factors but energy and commitment is huge. Look at the Blades, every player gives his all every minute of every game. Wilder demands it. Saying that, we’re missing James at left back

The Red Baron

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #47 on February 23, 2020, 11:05:24 am by The Red Baron »
I wonder if Sadlier has been benched because he or his agent have told Rovers that he's definitely leaving in the summer? Even if that is the case though I don't agree with the decision to leave him out, at least not until the play-offs are mathematically impossible.

Jonathan

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #48 on February 23, 2020, 11:21:43 am by Jonathan »
I think the Sadlier situation has been discussed extensively and I don’t think that’s the reason. Sadlier wants to play here and I think an improved contract offer would likely have seen this tied up some time ago. But we all know the club negotiates very slowly on these matters. DM has publicly stated that the contract negotiations wouldn’t affect his selection and I take that at face value. The decision to leave him out is presumably tactical, I don’t see the logic behind it myself as not only is he our top scorer but he was also in some of his best form of the season. But it’s not just Sadlier, others are also being rotated to accommodate different players and we’ve altered the shape from the one that had got us into contention.

I certainly don’t think it’s simply a lack of ‘mesters’. I think DM is still learning as a manager and he’s making mistakes with the structure and selection of the team. If we’d stuck more closely to the shape that got us to where we are, and the players that have been big contributors in that, then I don’t think we’d have got zero points from these two games irrespective of any ‘mesters’ we may or may not have. We’ve been playing without a recognised left back, altering the dynamics of the midfield and opting not to play our most threatening wide players. It’s suddenly over complicated things and here we are.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 01:50:37 pm by Jonathan »

Herbert Anchovy

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #49 on February 23, 2020, 12:28:58 pm by Herbert Anchovy »
In my opinion we are missing someone with a bit of ‘bite’ in the team. We seem to be getting bullied far to easily. When we come up against teams who want to play football then I always fancy us. When we are up against a team who throw their weight around a bit, then we get picked off far too easily. On various threads this season I’ve said that, after a striker, we really need a ball winning midfielder who can look to protect the defence a bit. For me, that’s where we’re lacking quality this season.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #50 on February 23, 2020, 01:20:55 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
I had no intention of implying it is "simply" a lack of Mesters.

But it's a painfully obvious fact that we are lacking the necessary mental steel.

Jonathan

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #51 on February 23, 2020, 01:49:54 pm by Jonathan »
I had no intention of implying it is "simply" a lack of Mesters.

Fair play, I hadn’t intended it to come across like you’d implied it was only that.

sheffield exile1

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #52 on February 23, 2020, 02:01:51 pm by sheffield exile1 »
Alan Little or Rob Jones, Mark Albrighton? Not the most skillful we have had on the books but when we needed a "step up to the plate" moment they are right up there with the best? Agreed?

GazLaz

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #53 on February 23, 2020, 03:46:01 pm by GazLaz »
Anderson, Wright, Halliday, Whiteman and Sheaf are all prepared to get stuck in. We are just not good enough.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #54 on February 23, 2020, 08:54:22 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
It's not a question of "getting stuck in". It's about the mental resolve to demand the performances that the players are eminently capable of.

We are easily good enough to compete with the best in this division. We've demonstrated that times many this season. Our record against the top 6 is W4 D2 L4. That's as good as or better than Sunderland's, Portsmouth's Fleetwood's and Wycombe's, and not far off Rotherham's (and they still have 4 of the top 6 to play away). But we fall from that standard way too easily and THAT is the reason we're not going to make the play-offs.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 09:07:38 pm by BillyStubbsTears »

DonnyBazR0ver

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #55 on February 23, 2020, 11:36:16 pm by DonnyBazR0ver »
I think of you contrast our type of game to that of Rotherham for example, you get some incling to the strengths and weakness.

For the most part we try to play 'pretty' football. Rotherham play a more percentage type football based on being strong, getting the ball into the box without any second invitation and being determined to get on the end of it. When things don't go well for them, they dig in, do the ugly stuff we'll.

We don't have that in our DNA. Sometimes brains beats brawn but over a season, particularly at this level, being less cerebral and being more physical wins.

Do I want us to change? Difficult question but what we need is a better mental approach when the champagne football isn't working. We need to learn how to be c*nts when the game needs it.

Metalmicky

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #56 on February 24, 2020, 08:42:20 am by Metalmicky »
People talk about mental steel, but at the same time concede that we are out of the running for a play-off place with 36 points to play for and Rovers being (potentially) only 4 points of a play-off's spot.....

Campsall rover

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #57 on February 24, 2020, 09:42:36 am by Campsall rover »
People talk about mental steel, but at the same time concede that we are out of the running for a play-off place with 36 points to play for and Rovers being (potentially) only 4 points of a play-off's spot.....
It ain’t over yet of course mathematically. But we need 8 wins and 2 draws minimum imo from 12 games of which 8 of those 12 are away from home.
Now even i think that’s a tall order.  So we keep going of course but it will take a monumental effort now to achieve the play offs.

steve@dcfd

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #58 on February 24, 2020, 09:58:24 am by steve@dcfd »
Unlike last year we can’t rely on one team falling away there are to many. I believe, like I’ve said before, we will need 27 pts minimum to make 6th place. Last season in March we only got 9 pts from 21pts we will need 15pts from 18 pts at least.
This time last season we had 54 pts therefore losing the last two games have put us behind that total.
Therefore we must win more games in March.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 10:22:56 am by steve@dcfd »

drfchound

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Re: Lack of mesters
« Reply #59 on February 24, 2020, 10:37:46 am by drfchound »
People talk about mental steel, but at the same time concede that we are out of the running for a play-off place with 36 points to play for and Rovers being (potentially) only 4 points of a play-off's spot.....






The fans aren’t the ones on the pitch though MM.
I fell sure that the players will still think they can do it.

 

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