Levelling Up

[Hounslowrover]

I understand what Sydney has written, he thinks the load could be shared better by the older generation, of which I am one. I have no problem with contributing more if the younger workers load is lessened.

[scawsby steve]

I understand what Sydney has written, he thinks the load could be shared better by the older generation, of which I am one. I have no problem with contributing more if the younger workers load is lessened.

Seeing as the State pension is way less than the minimum wage, I've no idea what you mean by "contributing more".

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS.
At the risk of getting embroiled in someone else's argument, I think it's pretty obvious what "share the load" means. It means that pensioners who will benefit most in the short term from the increase in social care funding ought to be funding some of it if they have the means to do so. As it is, wealthier pensioners are being massively subsidised by poorer 20 year olds. The working poor are having money taken out of their pay packet to protect the estates of well to do pensioners/ The same demographic who have massively benefited from increases in house prices which have lined their pockets while pricing the younger generation out of home ownership.

Do you think the funding of social care in this way is reasonable?

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS.
Literally no-one is talking about pensioners whose only source of income is the state pension being asked to pay taxes to cover  the costs of social care. The pensioners who should be paying something are those with comfortable pensions and houses which have gone up 10-20 fold in value over the past 40 years.

[scawsby steve]

SS.
Literally no-one is talking about pensioners whose only source of income is the state pension being asked to pay taxes to cover  the costs of social care. The pensioners who should be paying something are those with comfortable pensions and houses which have gone up 10-20 fold in value over the past 40 years.

Agh, I've got it now. So what Sydney and Hounslow should have said was "some" pensioners, or "wealthy" pensioners, rather than pensioners per se.

[drfchound]

I suppose those poor twenty year olds will obviously say no thanks when they have the chance to inherit one of those houses that their parents or grandparents leave for them in a will.
They will of course suggest the money goes into a pot to be shared out.

[SydneyRover]

Have to agree Tyke, also pensioners were not expected to live so long after retirement, so our contributions weren’t enough.

It rekindles the faith to read that there are those that understand how they have benefitted from circumstance as well as their work but are willing to share the load.

"Share the load"?

What does that mean?

It means that some are willing to understand the difficulties that following generations are under as the retired generation have had the advantage of cheaper housing and plenty, probably too many are buying up second homes making it doubly difficult for other generations to buy their first. And they are also willing to pay more tax if the tax load was equitable.

Anything else SS?

Once again your poor understanding of semantics has lead to you utterly and totally failing to answer the question, something you accuse other people of doing.

SS.
Literally no-one is talking about pensioners whose only source of income is the state pension being asked to pay taxes to cover  the costs of social care. The pensioners who should be paying something are those with comfortable pensions and houses which have gone up 10-20 fold in value over the past 40 years.

Agh, I've got it now. So what Sydney and Hounslow should have said was "some" pensioners, or "wealthy" pensioners, rather than pensioners per se.

It appears you already knew what sort of an answer you wanted ss

And it appears you have worked out that pensioners existing solely on a state pension cannot afford to buy a second home, some may have not purchased their first of course, well done Steve.

[ravenrover]

SS.
Literally no-one is talking about pensioners whose only source of income is the state pension being asked to pay taxes to cover  the costs of social care. The pensioners who should be paying something are those with comfortable pensions and houses which have gone up 10-20 fold in value over the past 40 years.

What's the value of a house got to do with it? In 1966 my Mum paid just over £2K for her newly built bungalow on The Drury Estate at Woodlands. When she died 4 years ago it was valued at £100k. She had no other pension other than a widows pit pension of £13pw and her old age pension to live on. So because of the value of her house she should have contributed more NI when Dementia finally got hold of her? As it was when we eventually got her into a care home, which we had to pay for, she only lasted 5 days

[BillyStubbsTears]

Raven
No, of course not. It is a sliding scale. I don't think someone just about surviving should be paying more tax. Whether that is a pensioner or a gig economy youngster.

Look at the other end of the scale. Do you think that pensioners with a decent occupational pension and the good fortune to see their house value rise to £500k on the property roulette wheel (and there are many in that situation) should have their care costs subsidised by someone working in a call centre and bringing up a family and unable to ever get their own house because the house price inflation for 40 years has been out of control? Because that is precisely what Johnson has proposed.

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way, I myself am someone who will benefit from what Johnson is proposing. I'm not so far from retirement so I'll not pay much in. I have a decent home and a decent pension to come. My house has doubled in value since I bought it 10 years ago which is ridiculous. I have done nothing to earn or deserve that. But if I need care costs, that will be subsidised by the younger generation. I think that is a disgrace and I'm all for people like me being, the lucky ones, expected to fork out more, not be featherbedded by people who are struggling to get by.

[ravenrover]

Raven
No, of course not. It is a sliding scale. I don't think someone just about surviving should be paying more tax. Whether that is a pensioner or a gig economy youngster.

Look at the other end of the scale. Do you think that pensioners with a decent occupational pension and the good fortune to see their house value rise to £500k on the property roulette wheel (and there are many in that situation) should have their care costs subsidised by someone working in a call centre and bringing up a family and unable to ever get their own house because the house price inflation for 40 years has been out of control? Because that is precisely what Johnson has proposed.

Sorry I still don't see what the value of a property has to do with it, you are linking two seperate  political threads of thought together, NI contributions and young people getting on the housing ladder
I would also refer you to my post on NI rate raise thread where I said that pensioners with personal pensions above say £30k as an arbitrary figure, of which I am one,  should contribute to NI

[BillyStubbsTears]

Because one of the major changes in British society over the past half century is the concentration of wealth in the hands of people who have done well on the housing casino. That has been a key driver of the massive increase in inequality. I'm saying that funding social care in a way that included a tax on overall wealth would be a much fairer way of paying the costs.

[ravenrover]

I did well on the "housing casino" as you put it, not by speculation but by being prepared to uproot my family and move homes to further my career which resulted in my current property and a comfortable final salary pension I still don't see your very Socialist view point re value of property in all this so I'll bow out on this debate

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Don't you have to pay for your care costs if you have a large amount of assets in England? You certainly do in Scotland including property.

[Filo]

Don't you have to pay for your care costs if you have a large amount of assets in England? You certainly do in Scotland including property.

That would depend on how you manage your assets, property can be placed into a trust managed by trustees on your behalf, that takes the property out of your assets, money can be in a joint account, you can’t take money from a joint account holder to pay for the others care. The property situation has to be in trust for I think six years before it is immune from being seized for care costs

[BillyStubbsTears]

Don't you have to pay for your care costs if you have a large amount of assets in England? You certainly do in Scotland including property.

Yes but under the new law the amount you pay yourself will be capped at £80k.  The rest will be paid for by NI.

[wilts rover]

Don't you have to pay for your care costs if you have a large amount of assets in England? You certainly do in Scotland including property.

Yes but under the new law the amount you pay yourself will be capped at £80k.  The rest will be paid for by NI.

Not quite. The new levy still leaves councils with a shortfall and the expectation is that Council Tax will have to rise to pay for it. So under the governments plans NI AND Council Tax are going up.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/12/social-care-plan-will-help-just-a-tenth-of-uks-older-people-in-need

[SydneyRover]

I did well on the "housing casino" as you put it, not by speculation but by being prepared to uproot my family and move homes to further my career which resulted in my current property and a comfortable final salary pension I still don't see your very Socialist view point re value of property in all this so I'll bow out on this debate

'You uprooted your family to further your career' and had a bonus win on the housing lottery, hope you are not using socialism selectively RR, and are happy to use any facilities paid for by the masses when it suits?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Don't you have to pay for your care costs if you have a large amount of assets in England? You certainly do in Scotland including property.

Yes but under the new law the amount you pay yourself will be capped at £80k.  The rest will be paid for by NI.

Isn't that only for in home medical care though, ie not care homes?

[ravenrover]

I did well on the "housing casino" as you put it, not by speculation but by being prepared to uproot my family and move homes to further my career which resulted in my current property and a comfortable final salary pension I still don't see your very Socialist view point re value of property in all this so I'll bow out on this debate

'You uprooted your family to further your career' and had a bonus win on the housing lottery, hope you are not using socialism selectively RR, and are happy to use any facilities paid for by the masses when it suits?

Try reading all my posts on the NI debate

[SydneyRover]

I did well on the "housing casino" as you put it, not by speculation but by being prepared to uproot my family and move homes to further my career which resulted in my current property and a comfortable final salary pension I still don't see your very Socialist view point re value of property in all this so I'll bow out on this debate

'You uprooted your family to further your career' and had a bonus win on the housing lottery, hope you are not using socialism selectively RR, and are happy to use any facilities paid for by the masses when it suits?

Try reading all my posts on the NI debate

I'm constantly surprised (not) by those denigrating socialism but happy to use services that are in effect socialistic, if that's a word, no big deal RR.

[Ldr]

It’s a good enough word for me Syd. The NHS is one of the greatest achievements in the history of the UK

[ravenrover]

I did well on the "housing casino" as you put it, not by speculation but by being prepared to uproot my family and move homes to further my career which resulted in my current property and a comfortable final salary pension I still don't see your very Socialist view point re value of property in all this so I'll bow out on this debate

'You uprooted your family to further your career' and had a bonus win on the housing lottery, hope you are not using socialism selectively RR, and are happy to use any facilities paid for by the masses when it suits?

Try reading all my posts on the NI debate

I'm constantly surprised (not) by those denigrating socialism but happy to use services that are in effect socialistic, if that's a word, no big deal RR.

Try reading all my posts on the NI debate

[DonnyOsmond]

After today's reshuffle the man given responsibility of the levelling up of the UK is Mr Michael Gove. Recently famous for this speech...

https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1437447464378830853?s=19