Trump and democracy

[scawsby steve]

I mentioned it because:

a) It's a fact and
b) Trump is a racist. Has been all his life, since he and his Dad were barring black Americans from renting their apartments in the 1970s, up to the present day when he casts racial slurs out like confetti.

It's not even up for debate, although I know you will get yourself worked up about it. I suggest you look at his rap sheet first.

-Turning away black applicants for an apartment, then accepting white applicants the same day. Except they weren't real applicants. It was a sting from the metropolitan authorities, following claims that the Trump organisation was racially discriminating. He settled out of court.
-Saying Mexicans are criminals and rapists.
-Saying Black American Congresswomen, born in the USA should "go back to where they came from", "countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe".
-Lying that he saw Muslims celebrating in New York on 9/11.
-Obsessively claiming (wrongly) that Obama was Kenyan.
-Claiming that a judge who was presiding over a fraud case against him should be recused because he was of Mexican heritage - the case had nothing to do with Mexico. And the judge was an American.
-Saying that he wouldn't get fair treatment from a Muslim American judge.
-Tweeting a picture of Hillary Clinton in front of a pile of money with a Star of David on it.
-Calling Haiti and African nations "shithole countries".
-Asking an aide of Korean heritage where she was from, and when she answered "NYC", asking her again where are "your people" from.
-Being fined $200,000 after his casino removed black table attendants and replaced them with white staff because the high rollers didn't like blacks.
-Saying "It's probably true" when asked in 1997 about explosive claims in a book about comments he was reported to have made. The alleged comments included "Black guys counting my money! I hate it"
-Refusing to denounce the KKK when pressed to do after they came out in support of him in the 2016 election. (He did denounce them a few days later, claiming he had a faulty earpiece in the earlier interview.)

I'll stop there. You get the point. Although I have little doubt that you'll ignore all of the above.

Only black people can know what it feels like to be black and be racially abused. Ask Dennis Rodman and Kanye West if they regard Trump as a racist.

Millions of black people will vote for Trump in November. Would they do that if they thought he was racist?

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS. In a very strong field of competition, that might be the daftest thing anyone has said in here.

There are dozens of reasons why a black person might support Trump. Maybe they don't watch the news. Maybe they think that reports of him being racist are fake news. Maybe they don't actually give a shit.


Look at that one example of what he said to the black Congresswomen. "Go back to where you came from." Specifically meaning foreign countries.

But they were born in America. He looked at them. Saw black people. And instinctively saw them as different.

Look at what he said about the judge of Mexican heritage. Paul Ryan who was the leader of the Republican party at the time called it "the very definition of racism."

Look at the sting on his apartment business.

But suit yourself. Turn a blind eye to it if you want. Claim it's all made up.

[scawsby steve]

SS. In a very strong field of competition, that might be the daftest thing anyone has said in here.

There are dozens of reasons why a black person might support Trump. Maybe they don't watch the news. Maybe they think that reports of him being racist are fake news. Maybe they don't actually give a shit.


Look at that one example of what he said to the black Congresswomen. "Go back to where you came from." Specifically meaning foreign countries.

But they were born in America. He looked at them. Saw black people. And instinctively saw them as different.

Look at what he said about the judge of Mexican heritage. Paul Ryan who was the leader of the Republican party at the time called it "the very definition of racism."

Look at the sting on his apartment business.

But suit yourself. Turn a blind eye to it if you want. Claim it's all made up.

Daft? I don't think so. Let me tell why. You, and plenty of other people, can't distinguish between racism and political incorrectness. Have you ever met real, vicious racists? I have, and have almost got into fights with them. They will constantly refer to black people as n****rs and black b*stards, and will verbally and physically abuse them at every opportunity.

Those c*nts that stabbed Stephen Lawrence to death were racists. Are you seriously putting Trump in the same category as them?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'll calmly make my point again.

Trump has a lifelong record of belittling, judging and discriminating against people of other races, because of their race.

That is racism. Full stop. As explained to him by the head of the Republican party.

With that record, the fact that the head of the WHO who had publicly admonished Trump is a black African is absolutely germane to the fact that Trump then lashes out and defunds the WHO. Especially when you factor in the pathetic, snowflake narcissistic nature of the man, which makes him incapable of ever hearing criticism without lashing out.

The fact that he would defund the WHO at this of all moments is bestial. He is an amoral monster.

And he relies on people like you giving him a pass because he sticks it to the Libs.

[scawsby steve]

I'll calmly make my point again.

Trump has a lifelong record of belittling, judging and discriminating against people of other races, because of their race.

That is racism. Full stop. As explained to him by the head of the Republican party.

With that record, the fact that the head of the WHO who had publicly admonished Trump is a black African is absolutely germane to the fact that Trump then lashes out and defunds the WHO. Especially when you factor in the pathetic, snowflake narcissistic nature of the man, which makes him incapable of ever hearing criticism without lashing out.

The fact that he would defund the WHO at this of all moments is bestial. He is an amoral monster.

And he relies on people like you giving him a pass because he sticks it to the Libs.

BST, you are a man of facts, evidence, and reason, and yet you are ASSUMING that the reason that Trump is de-funding the WHO is purely racial.

There is no way of proving that is the case.

[Sprotyrover]

Billy what you did and fail to recognise is that by going down the lines of racism you have managed to derail this thread, what I want to know is why Trump has pulled the funding, Trump was reading from a prepared script which will have been contrived by some of the best Legal minds in the US.why have they done this, Trump has clearly been well advised about the issue , just what is really going on?

[wilts rover]

That's correct Steve. You cannot assume that just because someone has a long history of racist speech and actions that everything they do is motivated by racism.

Personally I dont think it is in this case. What I think he has done with the WHO is try and shift the blame for his incompetence.

Trump says the WHO did not act early or decisively enough on covid-19. On the day the WHO declared coronavirus a pandemic Trump said it this was overblown, the virus was under control and he was off to Florida for the weekend to play golf.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes. Agreed. I can't know for certain that this was motivated by Trump's racism.

But you have a man (man-child actually, but let it pass) who can't take criticism from anyone without petulantly lashing out, so insecure is he. That same person has a lifetime history of racism. And a few days after being publicly criticised by a black man, he lashes out at them. As circumstantial evidence goes, it's not the worst case.

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way SS.

Your claim that only black people can truly know what racism is.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axios.com/donald-trump-african-american-voters-poll-racist-59f7adcf-776e-4ef1-bfd6-ff3b04ded233.html

[Glyn_Wigley]

"Trump's not a racist, he just talks and acts like one."

[scawsby steve]

By the way SS.

Your claim that only black people can truly know what racism is.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axios.com/donald-trump-african-american-voters-poll-racist-59f7adcf-776e-4ef1-bfd6-ff3b04ded233.html

Personally, I wouldn't believe anything the Washington Post says about Trump, but if it's right, then you've nothing to worry about. Sleepy Joe will romp home, and you'll win your bet with me.

Don't forget that bet. I said at the time that there'll only be one true winner from the US Election in November, and that'll be the Rovers foodbank.

Watch this space.

[tyke1962]

The only thing Donald Trump believes in is Donald Trump .

If playing the racist card gets him votes in the deep south then Trump will play that card .

If his putting America First gets the red knecks voting for him then so be it by withdrawing funding from WHO and NATO and b@llax to the consequences .

Trump simply plays to the voter and tells them what they want to hear which is a totally different thing to telling them what's needed to make the country successful .

If the american people put up with the kind of inequality you see over there , the healthcare system they have , the crime and murder rate then crack on because to be honest the US is pretty low on my list as a decent democratic country .

You couldn't pay me to live there .

[IDM]

By the way SS.

Your claim that only black people can truly know what racism is.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axios.com/donald-trump-african-american-voters-poll-racist-59f7adcf-776e-4ef1-bfd6-ff3b04ded233.html

Personally, I wouldn't believe anything the Washington Post says about Trump, but if it's right, then you've nothing to worry about. Sleepy Joe will romp home, and you'll win your bet with me.

Don't forget that bet. I said at the time that there'll only be one true winner from the US Election in November, and that'll be the Rovers foodbank.

Watch this space.

Why would you need to believe or disbelieve an American newspaper.?  Trump shows his true colours often enough with his own tweets and press briefings..

[SydneyRover]

The only thing he's good at is media and self promotion which is why he's presidente'

 US food banks will need plenty of donations if he wins a second term.

[selby]

  I have listened to three experts being interviewed on this subject today, and although all three criticised Trump for stopping the finance, all three agreed that the W.H.O. have been poor at handling the Corona virus situation and have made serious mistakes, especially how they have dealt with China.

[Donnywolf]

The only thing Donald Trump believes in is Donald Trump .

If playing the racist card gets him votes in the deep south then Trump will play that card .

If his putting America First gets the red knecks voting for him then so be it by withdrawing funding from WHO and NATO and b@llax to the consequences .

Trump simply plays to the voter and tells them what they want to hear which is a totally different thing to telling them what's needed to make the country successful .

If the american people put up with the kind of inequality you see over there , the healthcare system they have , the crime and murder rate then crack on because to be honest the US is pretty low on my list as a decent democratic country .

You couldn't pay me to live there .

I agree almost totally Tyke

Added to that he appears to be (as I dont know him) a particularly loathsome person - and as you say interested in himself to the detriment of all others

His agenda is him - and it seems unreal to my (amateur) observations that he is now talking up the prospect of opening up the Country again at EVERY opportunity

Quite ironic as he was talking it down as fake news folks fake news and saying it would not affect them at all

Maybe like the Novel 1984 all his outpourings will be (probably have been) rewritten so as to prove him right all along

One thing he wont change is I personally think he is a loathsome individual

[selby]

  And there you go, who what and why Trump is,  and the topic of why the W.H.O. have not done their job, why it made mistakes, and why and how it cow tailed to China who tried to cover up the seriousness of the problem, get's lost in a personality contest.
  If you are paying big bucks out to someone that is not doing the job, then stopping the hand outs, and investigating what they do with your money is the right thing to do.
   Interesting to see just who does contribute the most into the pot, the US and UK the fall guys again coughing up more than the countries held up as the shining lights of all that is good trailing behind.

[IDM]

No Selby, you investigate FIRST and then if and only if there is no other alternative, would you withdraw funding.

Use the threat of potential funding withdrawal as an incentive for the WHO to correct any failings maybe.

But to stop funding unilaterally without warning is childish and petulant.  “It’s my ball and I’m taking it home”.

You can see that, can’t you.??

[BillyStubbsTears]

IDM

Doing that at this time, when the developing world is about to be ravaged by CV-19 is much, much worse than childish. It is psychopathic. He is deliberately condemning millions to die.

[BigH]

I'll calmly make my point again.

Trump has a lifelong record of belittling, judging and discriminating against people of other races, because of their race.

That is racism. Full stop. As explained to him by the head of the Republican party.

With that record, the fact that the head of the WHO who had publicly admonished Trump is a black African is absolutely germane to the fact that Trump then lashes out and defunds the WHO. Especially when you factor in the pathetic, snowflake narcissistic nature of the man, which makes him incapable of ever hearing criticism without lashing out.

The fact that he would defund the WHO at this of all moments is bestial. He is an amoral monster.

And he relies on people like you giving him a pass because he sticks it to the Libs.

To be fair, I don't think it's just a race thing with Trump. He's like that with women, political opponents, journalists, the underprivileged, in fact anyone who doesn't inhabit his own narcissistic, monied bubble.

[IDM]

The WHO issue isn’t just about Coronavirus either.  It’s about the USA funding an international organisation which goes against Trump’s America First strategy..

[ravenrover]

And it runs in the family
In December 1950, Woody Guthrie signed a lease at the Beach Haven , or as Woody christened it Bitch Heaven, apartment complex owned and operated by Fred Trump in Gravesend, Brooklyn. There are several handwritten drafts of the lyrics with titles such as "Beach Haven Race Hate" and "Beach Haven Ain't My Home". In its lyrics, Guthrie expresses his dissatisfaction with Trump and the "color line" he had drawn in his Brooklyn neighborhood:[4][5]

Old Man Trump
Words by Woody Guthrie Adapted by Ryan Harvey, Music by Ryan Harvey
I suppose that Old Man Trump knows just how much racial hate
He stirred up in that bloodpot of human hearts
When he drawed that color line
Here at his Beach Haven family project

Beach Haven ain't my home!
No, I just can't pay this rent!
My money's down the drain,
And my soul is badly bent!
Beach Haven is Trump’s Tower
Where no black folks come to roam,
No, no, Old Man Trump!
Old Beach Haven ain't my home!

I'm calling out my welcome to you and your man both
Welcoming you here to Beach Haven
To love in any way you please and to have some kind of a decent place
To have your kids raised up in.
   
Beach Haven ain't my home!
No, I just can't pay this rent!
My money's down the drain,
And my soul is badly bent!
Beach Haven is Trump’s Tower
Where no black folks come to roam,
No, no, Old Man Trump!
Old Beach Haven ain't my home!

[idler]

I wonder how Trump junior would explain those lyrics away?

[Filo]

I wonder how Trump junior would explain those lyrics away?

Fake lyrics!

[ravenrover]

The interesting part of this is that in a recent programme about Woody there are clips of Old Man Trump with his lovely son about a yard behind him at the apartment block

[SydneyRover]

What a nasty piece of sh1t trump is not only killing people but inciting them to violence

[BillyStubbsTears]

There's a huge issue that has gone almost unreported this week.

Economically strong countries can cope with the economic hit due to CV-19. We borrow in our own currencies, and that means, if necessary, we can print money to pay our bills. It is far from ideal and it will lead to long term inflation, but you don't worry about breaking ribs to get access to the heart when the heart needs surgery.

That's not the case for the vast majority of underdeveloped countries. They borrow against other currencies, mostly the dollar. But the value of the dollar is going up because investors all over the world want security and there is nothing safer than the dollar.

Add to that the fact that countries all over the world are going into vicious recessions and there is a massive debt crisis lumbering over the horizon.

I know there are plenty on here who don't much give a shit if poor countries get the wrong end of the deal, but consider this. Collectively, those countries owe $2 trillion to Western banks. So a debt crisis for those countries means a banking crisis, just like 2008 all over again.

So there has been a move to increase the funds that the IMF has to loan to countries struggling to pay their debts. It's in everyone's interests. As it happens, Gordon Brown has been very active behind the scenes, pulling together over 100 ex-PMs and Presidents to lobby the current incumbents.

Everything was coming together. G20 countries had an outline agreement to boost the IMF coffers by $1 trillion.

Then Washington vetoed it just this week.

This could have the most collosal ramifications.

[Filo]

Can’t the rest of the world just cast America adrift, let them be the master of their own downfall and not the rest of the world downfall

[BillyStubbsTears]

If only.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Can’t the rest of the world just cast America adrift, let them be the master of their own downfall and not the rest of the world downfall

Trump's doing a good job of that all on his own.