Congratualtions Keir Starmer

[IDM]

Even the Adder party lead by S. Baldrick, MP for Dunny on the Wold, would do better than Johnson and his circus clowns..

[i_ateallthepies]

Always worth considering the input from Tory commentator Peter Oborne;
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/ehrc-labour-antisemitism-starmer-corbyn-soul

Sometimes you have to look a little further than the news reports!

Good old Peter Oborne, slightly to the right of Genghis Khan.

It is actually written by Richard Sanders (a Daily Telegraph columnist) and Peter Oborne - so not two people you think would be at all sympathetic to Corbyn. So if they can defend him - then its probably worth the time reading it find out why.

We don't need to read it to find out why, wilts.  They aren't the least bit interested in defending Corbyn, only getting their poison darts into whoever is the current Labour leader.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Not sure I agree with that Pies. I have a lot of respect for Oborne as a journalist. And he has written supportively of Corbyn before.

Both authors are very supportive of Corbyn as a campaigner against the Iraq invasion. And I suspect they are instinctively, and genuinely on his side on this issue.

But this is all missing the point. This is about whether Labour are ever going to become electable again. I personally know several people who refused to vote Labour in 2019 because of the anti-Semitism issue and it is a boil that has to be lanced.

Starmer gave Corbyn advance sight of the report before publication and explained how he was going to run the official Labour response. Before he even got a chance to do so, Corbyn rushed out and filmed his own interview, where the take home message was "This is a massively over exaggerated problem used by our enemies to undermine me."

Stupid, petulant, indulgent and pretty well designed to undermine Starmer's action.

And THAT it why it was correct to suspend him.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I wonder what our moral guardians in here think about this. Michael Gove playing politics with an issue as serious as anti-Semitism.

https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1321871058568359945

[tyke1962]

I wonder what our moral guardians in here think about this. Michael Gove playing politics with an issue as serious as anti-Semitism.

https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1321871058568359945

Just mention Windrush and Teresa May , they tend to go remarkably quiet do that lot when you do .

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I wonder what our moral guardians in here think about this. Michael Gove playing politics with an issue as serious as anti-Semitism.

https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1321871058568359945

Saw that the other day, really don't like it. Sums Gove up. A highly intelligent man but who is he playing to with that...

[BigH]

If I were Starmer I'd write back telling him to Foxtrot Oscar.

[Donnywolf]

I wonder what our moral guardians in here think about this. Michael Gove playing politics with an issue as serious as anti-Semitism.

https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1321871058568359945

Saw that the other day, really don't like it. Sums Gove up. A highly intelligent man but who is he playing to with that...

He did tell the truth once when he said "Johnson is not the right man for the Prime Ministers job"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfWYhJyGsPU

4 minutes of self promotion but just cut to 35 seconds onwards

[EasyforDennis]

Just watched SKS wipe the floor with the totally useless Andrew Marr. Those passing the the infection on most at the moment are secondary school pupils so why aren't we testing them regularly whilst keeping the schools open.
Did Marr ask the equally useless Gove about Test, Track and Trace? I think you can guess the answer.

[drfchound]

I actually watched the Marr programme this morning.
As much as I like the way Starmer speaks he did the classic avoid answering questions thing that ALL politicians do.
Yes he did bang on about TT and keeping schools open but he was far too evasive on answering some of the stuff that Marr put to him.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.

I'm not sure which questions you think he avoided. I've just watched and it seemed to me he answered everything asked.

On TTTI, yes, of course he was "banging on" about it. Because, as every expert has been saying for months, getting that right is crucial. And we have failed shambolically so far.

There are three ways forward from here.

1) Let the virus rip. See 150k deaths minimum over the winter.

2) Have stop-start lockdown-reopenung cycles. Minimise the deaths but create a lot of economic havoc.

3) Get TTTI working so we can properly control the spread without locking down the entire country.

Option 3 is the no brained. But given the shocking track record to date of the Govt on that, an Opposition would be failing in its duty to the nation if it didn't focus attention relentlessly in that issue now.

[EasyforDennis]

I actually watched the Marr programme this morning.
As much as I like the way Starmer speaks he did the classic avoid answering questions thing that ALL politicians do.
Yes he did bang on about TT and keeping schools open but he was far too evasive on answering some of the stuff that Marr put to him.

You must have seen something different to me. Tell me one question he avoided?

[albie]

Starmer appeared on Marr today supporting Boris to keep schools (and colleges) open.
This is directly against the evidence of the education sector as a route vector for the virus.

So yeah...lets have a belated lockdown after the event, but keep a primary transmission route wide open!
At least Burnham has had the nads to call this out today.

[wilts rover]

I actually watched the Marr programme this morning.
As much as I like the way Starmer speaks he did the classic avoid answering questions thing that ALL politicians do.
Yes he did bang on about TT and keeping schools open but he was far too evasive on answering some of the stuff that Marr put to him.

I haven't yet seen it, going to watch the repeat at 7.00pm (please don't give the ending away) - which questions do you not think he answers please hound? I will then watch out for them.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Starmer appeared on Marr today supporting Boris to keep schools (and colleges) open.
This is directly against the evidence of the education sector as a route vector for the virus.

So yeah...lets have a belated lockdown after the event, but keep a primary transmission route wide open!
At least Burnham has had the nads to call this out today.

I think most parents would prefer their kids to be at school getting an education and vital skills at the right time or life.  It's hugely dangerous for society in the long term to stop this.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Absolutely with you on that BFYP. And the kids who will suffer most from school closures are the very poorest. It's the thing that most worries me about the first lockdown.

[albie]

I agree most parents want the kids at school, and that it is the best thing long term.

Unfortunately, the data does not support that position.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/923668/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_week_40.pdf

Check p.16 to 19 inclusive.



It shows that education is much more important than bars/hospitality, for example.

[wilts rover]

What seems to have been missed is that Starmer also said that every school pupil should be tested weekly.

Because that is how you keep places open, get fans back in stadiums etc. Find out who has the virus and tell them to stay at home.

The question (both for Starmer and the government) is that if the government is unable to test pupils weekly - should schools stay open?

[Donnywolf]

Absolutely with you on that BFYP. And the kids who will suffer most from school closures are the very poorest. It's the thing that most worries me about the first lockdown.

Maybe the promise of Laptops will be brought up again - and statements saying 200.000 a day - thats how many we are distributing

[albie]

Wilts,

Trouble is T+T is a complete disaster.
See the piece from the Sunday Times I posted in the T+T thread.

Starmer said that the lockdown this time should mean the Gov got on top of this, but we know that this is in the hands of Dido and Serco.

Now unless they sack the above incompetents, and re-purpose funds to local agencies, I can't see how this improvement will come about.

If the purpose of a lockdown is to drive down the R number to the max, you simply cannot ignore the sector that contributes over 30% to the cluster outbreaks.

That is just how it is, despite everyone wanting kids to get the best education possible.

[drfchound]

Difficult decisions to make.

[wilts rover]

No not test and trace Albie.

A completely new programme to test EVERY schoolchild weekly and those who are positive stay at home.

The purpose of lockdown should be to drive R below 1 - and set up the systems required to keep it below 1 - or it will go straight back above 1 once lockdown is relaxed.

[albie]

Sorry Wilts, bur Starmer did say Test and Trace to be ramped up.
I agree with that, but how and by whom?

He also said weekly testing should be in schools, but who is supposed to be doing this?

The problem is Gov are trapped inside the defence of their own mistakes.
They believe in the use of private providers who have shown themselves not up to the job.

Pride will get in the way of an effective policy change.

What about Further Education and Universities?

I agree with the National Education Union;
https://actionnetwork.org/forms/close-schools-and-colleges-now

[wilts rover]

Albie

I believe Tobias Ellwood (a Tory MP) has been giving interviews today saying the government should be put on a 'warfooting' to tackle covid-19. We were saying that right at the beginning of this crises - because that is how you deal with major crises.

People who know what they are doing should be doing this. Not outsouring and managment consultancy companies in programmes led by people whose only qualification is who they are married to or went to school with.

The Army. Leading scientists. Local NHS & Public Health teams. The millions of people who are on furlough or have losts their jobs.

People who know what they are doing.

All Starmer can do is point out these things need doing. It's up to the government to get them done - but I think there is more chance of me and you doing them than that happening.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Sorry Wilts, bur Starmer did say Test and Trace to be ramped up.
I agree with that, but how and by whom?

He also said weekly testing should be in schools, but who is supposed to be doing this?

The problem is Gov are trapped inside the defence of their own mistakes.
They believe in the use of private providers who have shown themselves not up to the job.

Pride will get in the way of an effective policy change.

What about Further Education and Universities?

I agree with the National Education Union;
https://actionnetwork.org/forms/close-schools-and-colleges-now

There is little alternative to what we have.  Even if there was it's still the same people doing the same tests in a different uniform.

[albie]

Not sure about there being no alternative, BFYP.

Local networks have a much better record at this stuff, but the resources have been given to Serco.

The point about testing at schools is that it would need to be integrated with T+T.
The info needs to be interconnected so any pupil with a positive is followed up with family and contacts.

The worst thing would be set up parallel processes that do not speak to each other.
So any school system relies upon T+T being fit for purpose.
No-one thinks it is at present.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP.

It's not about who does the tests.

It's about what happens afterwards.

We have a genuinely world class system of tracing and isolation devolved down to local authorities. It worked superbly in Salisbury after the Novichok attack. Why we haven't built on that, choosing instead to develop a private sector national dystem from scratch, is anyone's guess. Even Tory backbenchers have been vocal in saying we MUST scale up the local system. We now have a month to get our shit together, having pissed away most of the last 6.

[EasyforDennis]

BFYP.

It's not about who does the tests.

It's about what happens afterwards.

We have a genuinely world class system of tracing and isolation devolved down to local authorities. It worked superbly in Salisbury after the Novichok attack. Why we haven't built on that, choosing instead to develop a private sector national dystem from scratch, is anyone's guess. Even Tory backbenchers have been vocal in saying we MUST scale up the local system. We now have a month to get our shit together, having pissed away most of the last 6.

Oh come on BST its not like you to be coy. Track and Trace was given to Tory donors and various mp's relatives. That is why we didn't go for the most efficient t&t

[BillyStubbsTears]

While we've all been looking over the pond...

https://mobile.twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1324642792027676672

Just over 6 months ago, when Starmer was elected Labour leader, the Tories were 26% ahead in a poll.

[drfchound]

The polls are not too reliable though are they.