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Author Topic: An alternative view - corona virus  (Read 16459 times)

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Nudga

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #150 on May 23, 2020, 11:09:00 am by Nudga »
Why are you surprised? I didn't write that response.

You've read the response rather than watch the whole 45 minute video. Strange.


The point I was making Nudga is that I've always considered you to be a level headed individual. But that video, entitled The Worlds Greatest Cover Up, is viewed and followed by people who write the type of response I posted.

I couldn't watch all of it, the first 10 minutes had me thinking that this guy is a complete nutter, he's defying the whole of the scientific community by claiming this Covid 19 isn't a virus at all. Yet he's no scientific training at all. Just plainly baffling.

I shared a beer with David Icke once upon a time, and I remember after half an hour or so I thought that he was a decent chap, but his brain is wired up wrong, just completely on another planet, this guy reminds me of him.


Martin, just because I shared it for Axholme Lion, doesn't mean I have those beliefs.

I said in opening this thread that I would share alternative news, not all of it is necessarily my view point.



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Axholme Lion

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #151 on May 26, 2020, 09:46:48 am by Axholme Lion »
Not many on here want alternative views. It's an echo chamber.

IDM

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #152 on May 26, 2020, 09:54:09 am by IDM »
Reasoned, articulated views which can then be properly debated, are always welcome.

Random statements without reasoned arguments are the problem ones.

Nudga

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #153 on May 26, 2020, 10:36:22 am by Nudga »
It's a football forum, not a university lecture hall.

I've shared videos of proffesors and professionals and they get shot down as cranks.

Plus I have eyes and ears.

Have you seen the restart of the bundesliga?

I see subs and coaches wearing masks and anti social distancing on the bench but the players can play contact sport and get in a defensive wall on free kicks.

I see politicians, advisors and proffesors breaking there own draconian laws.

I hear stories from real people about why family members went to hospital and what they actually died of but a different reason put on the death certificate.

I hear nurses are questioning the above and wondering why the wards aren't busy.
Some question the treatment given also.


Just because some of us aren't able to hypothesise the shit out of any given subject with song and verse (and graphs, which can also be manufactured), doesn't mean our thoughts and questions are any less valid than anybody else's and then rubbished as random statements.

I have tried to share a lot more but, mysteriously they get removed from the Internet.

If you or anybody else doesn't feel that this thread isn't articulated enough, move on, don't read it or block the thread.

There appears to be only a handful of people posting nowadays, some are that narcissistic they are answering nigh on every single post.

A couple of months ago we had daily updates of death rates, death rate league tables, death graphs etc.

Now the deaths are dropping, we don't see the daily death rates, we just hear about the 2nd wave and more and more and more politics.

I believe that what we saw in March and April WAS the 2nd wave.

So many people were very ill in November and December with a different, shitty virus that knocked the stuffing out of them for a couple of months, my mum included.

It's my belief that we are being conditioned into this "new normal" and that things will never be the same until we have a vaccine.

THIS, is the perfect time to be drumming it into people about eating the right food , drinking the right fluids, getting more exercise, fresh air and sun light.
But no, sadly nothing.

Our children will go back to school with these new normal anti social distancing rules and eventually it will be normal behaviour for them.
That scares me more than this virus.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 11:58:40 am by Nudga »

IDM

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #154 on May 26, 2020, 10:57:02 am by IDM »
Sorry I didn’t explain myself properly.  I didn’t mean every point raised should have reams and reams of back up evidence to be taken seriously, just something to support the opinion.

For example, you raised an opinion that the peak in March/April was the second wave - your reasoning was an observation of something happening with similar illness around December.

That’s a great example of an alternative view which could subsequently be debated, ie what was going on in December.?

My response was to AL who claimed that alternate views are unwelcome, but IMHO he/she is wrong.


BillyStubbsTears

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #155 on May 26, 2020, 11:03:25 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Nudga.

I'll not take offence at you suggesting I'm "manufacturing" graphs as part of some conspiracy. But you are so, so wrong on that mate. I'm beginning to think you are beyond being able to discuss this.

You are consistently ignoring ALL the welter of evidence in one direction, and pointing out stuff that is consistently and demonstrably incorrect.

And when it's pointed out as incorrect, what do you do? You ignore the mainstream evidence again and post more conspiracy theory nonsense.

As I keep saying, for your approach to be correct, you need millions of medics, nurses, coroner's and local politicians in every country in the world to be in on this. And you need them all to be taking the data in precisely the same way.

Really? You honestly believe that?

Axholme Lion

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #156 on May 26, 2020, 12:03:26 pm by Axholme Lion »
It's a football forum, not a university lecture hall.

I've shared videos of proffesors and professionals and they get shot down as cranks.

Plus I have eyes and ears.

Have you seen the restart of the bundesliga?

I see subs and coaches wearing masks and anti social distancing on the bench but the players can play contact sport and get in a defensive wall on free kicks.

I see politicians, advisors and proffesors breaking there own draconian laws.

I hear stories from real people about why family members went to hospital and what they actually died of but a different reason put on the death certificate.

I hear nurses are questioning the above and wondering why the wards aren't busy.
Some question the treatment given also.


Just because some of us aren't able to hypothesise the shit out of any given subject with song and verse (and graphs, which can also be manufactured), doesn't mean our thoughts and questions are any less valid than anybody else's and then rubbished as random statements.

I have tried to share a lot more but, mysteriously they get removed from the Internet.

If you or anybody else doesn't feel that this thread isn't articulated enough, move on, don't read it or block the thread.

There appears to be only a handful of people posting nowadays, some are that narcissistic they are answering nigh on every single post.

A couple of months ago we had daily updates of death rates, death rate league tables, death graphs etc.

Now the deaths are dropping, we don't see the daily death rates, we just hear about the 2nd wave and more and more and more politics.

I believe that what we saw in March and April WAS the 2nd wave.

So many people were very ill in November and December with a different, shitty virus that knocked the stuffing out of them for a couple of months, my mum included.

It's my belief that we are being conditioned into this "new normal" and that things will never be the same until we have a vaccine.

THIS, is the perfect time to be drumming it into people about eating the right food , drinking the right fluids, getting more exercise, fresh air and sun light.
But no, sadly nothing.

Our children will go back to school with these new normal anti social distancing rules and eventually it will be normal behaviour for them.
That scares me more than this virus.

Excellent post.

IDM

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #157 on May 26, 2020, 12:05:52 pm by IDM »
Have you taken on board my responses AL.? Particularly the latter one.?

Axholme Lion

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #158 on May 26, 2020, 12:51:27 pm by Axholme Lion »
Have you taken on board my responses AL.? Particularly the latter one.?

Yes. Earlier in the thread I stated my opinion that this virus was man made in China for various reasons, obviously I can't prove that, no one can either way, but it does not make it an invalid opinion just because the BBC or the Guardian don't say so.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #159 on May 26, 2020, 01:08:59 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
AL
And every security service in the world that has looked into this and found no evidence it was man made?

And the virologists who have looked at the genomics and found none of the tell-tale markers that it was artificial?

Are they all lifting your shirt?

On what do you base your opinion that it is man made?

Nudga

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #160 on May 26, 2020, 01:50:06 pm by Nudga »
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5440785/amp/Killer-flu-outbreak-blame-42-spike-deaths.html?__twitter_impression=true

Why the lockdown now then?

December 2017, 45,000 deaths
January 2018, 64,000 deaths.

A 42% spike in deaths in a two month period.
I didn't even know at the time. No lockdown and no fear campaign. Why?


https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/2020/05/25/horowitz-the-cdc-confirms-remarkably-low-coronavirus-death-rate-where-is-the-media/amp?__twitter_impression=true
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 01:52:18 pm by Nudga »

IDM

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #161 on May 26, 2020, 01:52:45 pm by IDM »
Was it a global thing Nudga.?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #162 on May 26, 2020, 02:06:03 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5440785/amp/Killer-flu-outbreak-blame-42-spike-deaths.html?__twitter_impression=true

Why the lockdown now then?

December 2017, 45,000 deaths
January 2018, 64,000 deaths.

A 42% spike in deaths in a two month period.
I didn't even know at the time. No lockdown and no fear campaign. Why?


https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/2020/05/25/horowitz-the-cdc-confirms-remarkably-low-coronavirus-death-rate-where-is-the-media/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Nudga

Two reasons.

1) CV-19 has a far higher mortality rate than seasonal flu. Around 1% of the people who catch it die, compared to about 0.15% of people who catch flu.

That means that A LOT more people would die from an uncontrolled CV-19 outbreak. Probably 3-500k.

2) CV-19 is a lot more virulent than seasonal flu. The R number is about 4 when it isn't controlled, compared to below 2 for seasonal flu.

That means an uncontrolled epidemic would spread a lot faster. That means the epidemic peak would come faster and a hell of a lot more people would be infected at the same time. It's estimated that at an uncontrolled peak CV-19 outbreak, we would have over 1 million people needing hospitalisation. But we only have about 100k beds.

Stop and think what you are saying. This epidemic has been as bad as a very bad flu outbreak EVEN WITH AN UNPRECEDENTED LOCKDOWN!
 
That graph I posted a couple of days ago tells it all. Without the lockdown, deaths around the entire world were doubling every 3-4 days.

Question for you.

What do you think was going to stop that in the absence of a lockdown?


Iberian Red

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #163 on May 26, 2020, 02:41:24 pm by Iberian Red »
Probably lots of bluster and bolloxs

Iberian Red

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #164 on May 26, 2020, 02:44:40 pm by Iberian Red »
AL pussy! You live in the posh eat part of 'Doncaster' 

Support Millwall.
 Cant buy bread?
Sorry,aurocorrect there as I have my phone on different languages.
Flat cap,Barbour. And cant buy bread???
Give up lad. Lies
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 02:46:49 pm by Iberian Red »

Nudga

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #165 on May 26, 2020, 02:56:29 pm by Nudga »
Shielding the elderly and the sick PROPERLY.

As in, use the nightingale hospitals instead of transferring the elderly from covid wards to care homes.

And again, stating EXACTLY what people died of instead of just striking them off as Covid deaths.
But we've been there already. You said they were too busy in unprecedented times to do this properly.
They were busier in Dec 17 and Jan 18.


IDM,globally, not sure, I haven't checked but I'm sure a lot of people died as a result of the Syrian conflict.

Is that still ongoing?


Axholme Lion

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #166 on May 26, 2020, 03:08:11 pm by Axholme Lion »
AL pussy! You live in the posh eat part of 'Doncaster' 

Support Millwall.
 Cant buy bread?
Sorry,aurocorrect there as I have my phone on different languages.
Flat cap,Barbour. And cant buy bread???
Give up lad. Lies

Ha ha. The Albion bakery only does contactless now.

Axholme Lion

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #167 on May 26, 2020, 03:13:37 pm by Axholme Lion »
AL
And every security service in the world that has looked into this and found no evidence it was man made?

And the virologists who have looked at the genomics and found none of the tell-tale markers that it was artificial?

Are they all lifting your shirt?

On what do you base your opinion that it is man made?

Because the Chinese have a lab creating viruses just down the road and they are not having it all there own way economically anymore. It's easier for them to lose a few thousand of their own this way rather than to start throwing missiles at each other and still get the result of screwing over the West that they want. Also no one is looking at what they are getting away with in Hong Kong, very convenient. I may be wrong, who knows, but who's to say that this is not the case?

Nudga

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Iberian Red

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #169 on May 26, 2020, 03:29:56 pm by Iberian Red »
Nudga.
 Really?

IDM

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #170 on May 26, 2020, 03:43:51 pm by IDM »
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/05/why-barnard-castle/amp/

Coincidence?

Could be just a coincidence - given the blatant lies we have witnessed, who knows.?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #171 on May 26, 2020, 03:53:30 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Shielding the elderly and the sick PROPERLY.

As in, use the nightingale hospitals instead of transferring the elderly from covid wards to care homes.

And again, stating EXACTLY what people died of instead of just striking them off as Covid deaths.
But we've been there already. You said they were too busy in unprecedented times to do this properly.
They were busier in Dec 17 and Jan 18.


IDM,globally, not sure, I haven't checked but I'm sure a lot of people died as a result of the Syrian conflict.

Is that still ongoing?



Nudga

But it wasn't just the elderly who were needing hospitalisation.

This report sets out CoVid19 hospitalisations in March in America.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6915e3-H.pdf

50-64 year olds had a hospitalisation rate more than half that of 65+.

18-49 year olds had a hospitalisation rate about 1/4 that of the 65+ cohort.

So even if you totally lockdown down ALL pensioners but left those of working age free to spread the virus between themselves, you would still have massively overwhelmed the NHS. And I do mean "massively".

And that is before you take into account other effects. If you let 60% of the working population catch the virus, even if half had no symptoms, you'd still have had something like 10 million not hospitalised, but unable to work. All at the same time. For maybe a month. And that would have included key workers. So how would you have got food delivered? How would you have treated people in hospital? Etc. Etc.

To be honest, it is batshit to think that all the Govt's of the world are choosing to f**k up their economies when there was a perfectly simply way of dealing with this without economic carnage.

There wasn't.

silent majority

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #172 on May 26, 2020, 05:02:04 pm by silent majority »

Nudga

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #173 on May 26, 2020, 05:28:31 pm by Nudga »
It would have been easier to stay at home but he didn't.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #174 on May 26, 2020, 06:10:45 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
How many people take their wife and kids along for clandestine meetings with nefarious evil companies?

knockers

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #175 on May 26, 2020, 06:20:57 pm by knockers »
I have  :thumbsup:

IDM

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #176 on May 26, 2020, 06:28:46 pm by IDM »
I have  :thumbsup:

Trips to Elland Road don’t count... ;)

wilts rover

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #177 on May 26, 2020, 06:39:13 pm by wilts rover »
How many people take their wife and kids along for clandestine meetings with nefarious evil companies?

Hang on. If he had come out and said:

my trip to Barnard Castle was completely within the rules as it was for work purposes to conclude the signing of a £multi-million contract for a new virus that will save millions of lives in the future

as opposed to

I went for a 30 miles drive with my wife and child just to see if I was fit to drive by testing my eyesight on public roads

which one do you think the public would say, yeah, I'm alright with that, to?


BillyStubbsTears

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Re: An alternative view - corona virus
« Reply #179 on May 27, 2020, 01:19:13 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Going great for Sweden now.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1287304/sweden-protests-coronavirus-death-toll-herd-immunity-Europe-covid19-news

Sweden. 42 deaths per 100,000 population and STILL looking at a massive recession because the people have locked down themselves.

Norway. Right next door. 4 deaths per 100,000 because they locked down early and hard.

And the response from the genius behind Sweden's policy? "Well I might have been wrong, but I'd be surprised."

 

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