EFL season over

[Donnywolf]

Probably promoting the 4th Team if no Play offs ?

Presume you mean 3rd placed team in Championship & league 1 and 4th placed team in league 2

Yes - was only talking about why Posh would be narked but forgot it was top 2 up and then usually 3 4 5 & 6 that Play off - so Posh would be narked if they were contrived to have finished 7

Then again if they Promoted Oxford instead of having Play-offs there are 2 more Teams on same points as them (60) and behind on GD

I can see it getting messy (no s**t Sherlock statement I know)

[Filo]

Probably promoting the 4th Team if no Play offs ?

Presume you mean 3rd placed team in Championship & league 1 and 4th placed team in league 2

Yes - was only talking about why Posh would be narked but forgot it was top 2 up and then usually 3 4 5 & 6 that Play off - so Posh would be narked if they were contrived to have finished 7

Then again if they Promoted Oxford instead of having Play-offs there are 2 more Teams on same points as them (60) and behind on GD

I can see it getting messy (no s**t Sherlock statement I know)

PPG would see Wycombe promoted, not Oxford

[BillyStubbsTears]

Probably promoting the 4th Team if no Play offs ?

Presume you mean 3rd placed team in Championship & league 1 and 4th placed team in league 2

Yes - was only talking about why Posh would be narked but forgot it was top 2 up and then usually 3 4 5 & 6 that Play off - so Posh would be narked if they were contrived to have finished 7

Then again if they Promoted Oxford instead of having Play-offs there are 2 more Teams on same points as them (60) and behind on GD

I can see it getting messy (no s**t Sherlock statement I know)

PPG would see Wycombe promoted, not Oxford

A quote ridiculous outcome. Wycombe were going to struggle to even make the play-offs.

[NewDonny]

Probably promoting the 4th Team if no Play offs ?

Presume you mean 3rd placed team in Championship & league 1 and 4th placed team in league 2

Yes - was only talking about why Posh would be narked but forgot it was top 2 up and then usually 3 4 5 & 6 that Play off - so Posh would be narked if they were contrived to have finished 7

Then again if they Promoted Oxford instead of having Play-offs there are 2 more Teams on same points as them (60) and behind on GD

I can see it getting messy (no s**t Sherlock statement I know)

PPG would see Wycombe promoted, not Oxford

PPG will see Coventry, Rotherham & Oxford promoted.

[Filo]

Probably promoting the 4th Team if no Play offs ?

Presume you mean 3rd placed team in Championship & league 1 and 4th placed team in league 2

Yes - was only talking about why Posh would be narked but forgot it was top 2 up and then usually 3 4 5 & 6 that Play off - so Posh would be narked if they were contrived to have finished 7

Then again if they Promoted Oxford instead of having Play-offs there are 2 more Teams on same points as them (60) and behind on GD

I can see it getting messy (no s**t Sherlock statement I know)

PPG would see Wycombe promoted, not Oxford

PPG will see Coventry, Rotherham & Oxford.

Oxford would be on 1.71 ppg

Wycombe would be on 1.73 ppg

[DonnyOsmond]

It's weighted based on away games being worth more than home games.

[drfchound]

Probably promoting the 4th Team if no Play offs ?

No, because the information coming out is that Coventry,Rotherham and Oxford are to be promoted.

[Chris Black come back]

Not sure how they will cook the books in the Championship but any kind of formula is going to see Dingles and Luton come down and looks pretty clear for Charlton. Not fearful really about any of those next season. Good clubs but not huge clubs. Then again, Sunderland have hardly dominated League One these last few seasons.

[Dutch Uncle]

Have just done a spreadsheet, and using separate ppg calculations for home and away matches averaging home and away performance, and then averaging the ppg home and ppg away scores gives:

1.971 Coventry City
1.770 Rotherham United
1.725 Oxford United
1.704 Fleetwood
1.703 Peterborough United
1.698 Wycombe Wanderers
1.696 Portsmouth
1.618 Sunderland
1.554 Doncaster Rovers


Portmouth lose 3 places by having a stellar home record, a poor away record, and having having fewer home matches left than away matches

[DRNaith]

The only thing I have against PPG would be that it doesn't take into account the fact that Leeds always bottle it towards the end of the season.

Besides, I won't believe this is the way forward until SM confirms it!

[Chris Black come back]

Seems fair enough result really. Our away record has been dire and we don’t deserve to go up. Those top two are good sides and Oxford have been very good at times. Clearly good news that Peterborough not getting promoted.

[firestarter]

Can’t please all of the people all of the time.. those with vested interests in promotion/relegation will shout loudest. Personally I’m comfortable with ending the season now and applying current positions. We are in unprecedented times and there are are no right or wrong solutions .

[selby]

 If an away victory is going to be seen as worth more when sorting out promotion in this situation, Why are they worth no more than three points in any other situation?
  It looks like a reason for a visit to the courts to me.

[Dutch Uncle]

If an away victory is going to be seen as worth more when sorting out promotion in this situation, Why are they worth no more than three points in any other situation?
  It looks like a reason for a visit to the courts to me.

Home and away games are seen as equal. The point is that since most teams would not perform equally well at home and away, then the number of home and away games is taken into account in giving a ppg average. Portsmouth come out worse than most of a close group simply because they have a great home record, a poor away record, and more away games left than home games.

We too were in the same home and away situation, but were significantly worse off than all teams above us and significantly better than all those below us, and so it made no difference to our 9th position.

[Draytonian III]

On this afternoon’s Talksport it stated that Wycombe would be promoted

[Dutch Uncle]

On this afternoon’s Talksport it stated that Wycombe would be promoted

That would be the case if a simple ppg (not allowing any difference between home and away form) is used.

All theoretical until any decision is made. IMHO allowing for difference between home and away form is slightly fairer, or maybe better said as - slightly less unfair

[RoversAlias]

If an away victory is going to be seen as worth more when sorting out promotion in this situation, Why are they worth no more than three points in any other situation?
  It looks like a reason for a visit to the courts to me.

What do you propose instead Selby? They have to do something. If they void the season, teams at the top will be upset. If they do PPG or leave it as it is now, then others behind them and in the relegation zones will be upset. If they commit to finishing behind closed doors, they may not be able to do it in a reasonable time frame and contracts and TV rights become a bigger issue.

The authorities have to come up with a solution knowing it cannot please everybody.

[selby]

  Every game whether home or away is played all season for three points a game, so why suddenly are three points away more than three points at home?
  If they made it four points for an away game throughout the season I would have no problem, it would probably encourage more attacking football, why bring in another theory when straight points per game would suffice.
  It is an off the field idea there is no need of, or is it they just fancy giving Oxford a leg up instead of Wycombe?
  Whatever system is used, all I can see is trouble in the courts if any promotion or relegation is implemented. As the governing body I would void the season in the EFL, and as the keeper of the competition take my chances in any court case.

[albie]

Selby,

If the proposed end to the season is signed off by a majority of the EFL members in a fair vote, then what grounds are there for a legal challenge?

Genuine question, because you have lost me with this!

[scawsby steve]

  Every game whether home or away is played all season for three points a game, so why suddenly are three points away more than three points at home?
  If they made it four points for an away game throughout the season I would have no problem, it would probably encourage more attacking football, why bring in another theory when straight points per game would suffice.
  It is an off the field idea there is no need of, or is it they just fancy giving Oxford a leg up instead of Wycombe?
  Whatever system is used, all I can see is trouble in the courts if any promotion or relegation is implemented. As the governing body I would void the season in the EFL, and as the keeper of the competition take my chances in any court case.

Either way, there are going to be challenges in court Brian. That's the trouble with this virus. No-one's got a clue what's going to happen, regarding football, the lock-down, or anything else.

[NickDRFC]

  Every game whether home or away is played all season for three points a game, so why suddenly are three points away more than three points at home?
  If they made it four points for an away game throughout the season I would have no problem, it would probably encourage more attacking football, why bring in another theory when straight points per game would suffice.
  It is an off the field idea there is no need of, or is it they just fancy giving Oxford a leg up instead of Wycombe?
  Whatever system is used, all I can see is trouble in the courts if any promotion or relegation is implemented. As the governing body I would void the season in the EFL, and as the keeper of the competition take my chances in any court case.

I think you’re confused with what they are doing with away games. They’re not saying it’s worth more, they’re adopting a system that considers your PPG average both at home and away to give a more realistic forecast outcome. If anything they’re saying that away games are worth less as Portsmouth, with a lot of away games left, will be predicted to get fewer points as a consequence of their poor away record.

[ravenrover]

Doesn't ppg mean that Posh end up 7th? I'm sure McAnthony has already said he will start legal proceedings if that happens

He’s only pissed off because he knows he’ll lose Toney

I assume that there won’t be any play off matches so what difference would it make to Peterbro whether they finished seventh?

Just a wild guess but perhaps he thought there would be playoffs for 3rd place

[ravenrover]

Just came across an interview today with D Mc "we are contracted to play 9 games why can't we finish the season"
This is going to end intears

[phil old leake]

In my view it’s an unnecessary thing to do. It’s going to cause problems.  Cancelling the season as it stands is fairer. No ups no downs. Start next season a fresh

[idler]

If you have worked hard for nearly forty games to achieve success why should it all just go up in smoke?
I think that the PPG with allowances included for home and away games is the fairest method. The only thing it doesn't take into account is a team going on a far better run of form than anybody would predict.

[BillyStubbsTears]

If an away victory is going to be seen as worth more when sorting out promotion in this situation, Why are they worth no more than three points in any other situation?
  It looks like a reason for a visit to the courts to me.

What do you propose instead Selby? They have to do something. If they void the season, teams at the top will be upset. If they do PPG or leave it as it is now, then others behind them and in the relegation zones will be upset. If they commit to finishing behind closed doors, they may not be able to do it in a reasonable time frame and contracts and TV rights become a bigger issue.

The authorities have to come up with a solution knowing it cannot please everybody.

Agreed with that, but what they have come up with is pretty much the bluntest of instruments.

I'd have preferred to see something a little more sophisticated. Something that took into account form weighted over the season, and the standard of opponents left.

If two teams have very similar H&A weighted PPG, but one side hasn't yet played 4 of the top six and the other side hasn't yet played 4 of the bottom 6, it pretty clear who is the better side up to present.

[selby]

  I have stated before, I would void the season with no relegation or promotion, I am happy with our position we were in and had hopes we were at last getting it together, and fancied our chances of scraping in the playoffs.
   But that was only my opinion at the time and a guess, which everything else is if they start adjusting points   per game other than the points already won in the season.
  How does any mathematical statistic   take into account scores like Fulham 0  Barnsley 3 sorry Tyke. 

[Colemans Left Hook]

Not sure how they will cook the books in the Championship but any kind of formula is going to see Dingles and Luton come down and looks pretty clear for Charlton. Not fearful really about any of those next season. Good clubs but not huge clubs. Then again, Sunderland have hardly dominated League One these last few seasons.

saw that coming on November 30th

https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=275083.msg925390#msg925390

meanwhile bookmakers have to return all bets ... their rules will cover this eventuality

so on a positive note (visible with the aid of a magnifying glass) bets on Rovers even Bolton to be relegated are void.

perhaps someone can do graphs of      say 12 match moving points per game averages  per team over the season (with shares chartists used to produce  30 day moving averages for share prices before computers made it easy)

BST should be in his element here

 it is so obvious Wycombes form is on a downhill ski slope and they deserve nothing.

[NewDonny]

  I have stated before, I would void the season with no relegation or promotion, I am happy with our position we were in and had hopes we were at last getting it together, and fancied our chances of scraping in the playoffs.
   But that was only my opinion at the time and a guess, which everything else is if they start adjusting points   per game other than the points already won in the season.
  How does any mathematical statistic   take into account scores like Fulham 0  Barnsley 3 sorry Tyke.

Sorry but that is utterly rediculous to suggest voiding a season that is 3/4 complete. With clubs having completed anything between 34 to 36 games this season and not being able to complete the remaining games can only be resolved by PPG, cricket applies a similar logic with DL process so why cant football.

[drfchound]

  Every game whether home or away is played all season for three points a game, so why suddenly are three points away more than three points at home?
  If they made it four points for an away game throughout the season I would have no problem, it would probably encourage more attacking football, why bring in another theory when straight points per game would suffice.
  It is an off the field idea there is no need of, or is it they just fancy giving Oxford a leg up instead of Wycombe?
  Whatever system is used, all I can see is trouble in the courts if any promotion or relegation is implemented. As the governing body I would void the season in the EFL, and as the keeper of the competition take my chances in any court case.

I think you’re confused with what they are doing with away games. They’re not saying it’s worth more, they’re adopting a system that considers your PPG average both at home and away to give a more realistic forecast outcome. If anything they’re saying that away games are worth less as Portsmouth, with a lot of away games left, will be predicted to get fewer points as a consequence of their poor away record.

That is how I understood it too Nick.