EFL season over

[drfchound]

  Every game whether home or away is played all season for three points a game, so why suddenly are three points away more than three points at home?
  If they made it four points for an away game throughout the season I would have no problem, it would probably encourage more attacking football, why bring in another theory when straight points per game would suffice.
  It is an off the field idea there is no need of, or is it they just fancy giving Oxford a leg up instead of Wycombe?
  Whatever system is used, all I can see is trouble in the courts if any promotion or relegation is implemented. As the governing body I would void the season in the EFL, and as the keeper of the competition take my chances in any court case.

Either way, there are going to be challenges in court Brian. That's the trouble with this virus. No-one's got a clue what's going to happen, regarding football, the lock-down, or anything else.

“No ones got a clue what is going to happen, regarding football, the lockdown or anything else.”

Not sure you can say that SS.
There are plenty of people who know what is going to happen, apparently.

[selby]

 ND, I have explained before, I would void the season as far as not awarding promotion or relegation, but would start a full season as soon as practical and start every team with the exact same points where they stood any games teams were behind such as us to be played during that season, and nobody would be disadvantaged or advantaged and join both sets of points together for relegation and promotion next season.
  Hound, I have listened quite a lot to different people, Chairmen, Committee, FA, Premier League CEO etc. and all know what is going off, the trouble is they all want a different thing.

[RoversAlias]

If an away victory is going to be seen as worth more when sorting out promotion in this situation, Why are they worth no more than three points in any other situation?
  It looks like a reason for a visit to the courts to me.

What do you propose instead Selby? They have to do something. If they void the season, teams at the top will be upset. If they do PPG or leave it as it is now, then others behind them and in the relegation zones will be upset. If they commit to finishing behind closed doors, they may not be able to do it in a reasonable time frame and contracts and TV rights become a bigger issue.

The authorities have to come up with a solution knowing it cannot please everybody.

Agreed with that, but what they have come up with is pretty much the bluntest of instruments.

I'd have preferred to see something a little more sophisticated. Something that took into account form weighted over the season, and the standard of opponents left.

If two teams have very similar H&A weighted PPG, but one side hasn't yet played 4 of the top six and the other side hasn't yet played 4 of the bottom 6, it pretty clear who is the better side up to present.

I completely understand that thinking, but once you start factoring in modelling of games yet to happen, it  begins to get away from being based on merit. The season is a significant way through the season, we have a fair assessment of every team from 35 or so matches, so I think PPG up to where we are now is more fair than the other methods.

They can't legislate for games unplanned that will have gone against expectation. Nobody had us beating Wigan 3-1 the year we went down under Ferguson, for instance.

It's tough, for sure. The only thing I am dead against is null and void because that just punishes everyone and makes the season's efforts, time and money all for nothing.

[drfchound]

ND, I have explained before, I would void the season as far as not awarding promotion or relegation, but would start a full season as soon as practical and start every team with the exact same points where they stood any games teams were behind such as us to be played during that season, and nobody would be disadvantaged or advantaged and join both sets of points together for relegation and promotion next season.
  Hound, I have listened quite a lot to different people, Chairmen, Committee, FA, Premier League CEO etc. and all know what is going off, the trouble is they all want a different thing.

.......yep and I am not surprised selby.
As I have said,  you can’t please all of the people all of the time.
Cancelling the season is objectionable for some.
To be honest, I don’t like the suggestion that you have made above.
We have to just let the EFL people come to a decision.
No doubt some people will take their toys in but that applies to all walks of life when things don’t go their way.

[arkseyrover]

Colemans left hook wrote

'meanwhile bookmakers have to return all bets ... their rules will cover this eventuality'

was wondering what would happen to my pre season ante post bets. Is that how it works - they are counted as non runners and money returned? If so that's the first time I've broken even!

[BillyStubbsTears]

If an away victory is going to be seen as worth more when sorting out promotion in this situation, Why are they worth no more than three points in any other situation?
  It looks like a reason for a visit to the courts to me.

What do you propose instead Selby? They have to do something. If they void the season, teams at the top will be upset. If they do PPG or leave it as it is now, then others behind them and in the relegation zones will be upset. If they commit to finishing behind closed doors, they may not be able to do it in a reasonable time frame and contracts and TV rights become a bigger issue.

The authorities have to come up with a solution knowing it cannot please everybody.

Agreed with that, but what they have come up with is pretty much the bluntest of instruments.

I'd have preferred to see something a little more sophisticated. Something that took into account form weighted over the season, and the standard of opponents left.

If two teams have very similar H&A weighted PPG, but one side hasn't yet played 4 of the top six and the other side hasn't yet played 4 of the bottom 6, it pretty clear who is the better side up to present.

I completely understand that thinking, but once you start factoring in modelling of games yet to happen, it  begins to get away from being based on merit. The season is a significant way through the season, we have a fair assessment of every team from 35 or so matches, so I think PPG up to where we are now is more fair than the other methods.

They can't legislate for games unplanned that will have gone against expectation. Nobody had us beating Wigan 3-1 the year we went down under Ferguson, for instance.

It's tough, for sure. The only thing I am dead against is null and void because that just punishes everyone and makes the season's efforts, time and money all for nothing.

In cricket, they have regularly been factoring in a best guess of what would happen in sections of a match which didn't get to be played. Because they recognised years ago that a blunt averaging approach was hopelessly unfair.

I don't see why that logic shouldn't apply here.

Of course you can't legislate for specific unexpected occurrences. But that's not what anyone is expecting to do. Just like the Duckworth-Lewis method doesn't legislate for a dropped dolly catch or a sudden inspired spell of bowling, or a batsman given not out when he clearly was. You build a model that does the best it can with the data at hand. Blunt PPG averaging is a million miles off that.

[selby]

  Whatever we think here is really not worth the effort. A meeting is set for this week, really the EFL should be making the decision, but they will put certain things forward and the clubs will make the decisions and vote on them.
   Disappointing to me that all the talk of a reset in football, a more equal share of the goodies  going down the leagues gone within five weeks, while Pogba, Ramsey, Bale and others are talking of multi million pound transfers and the agents are getting ready for more riches.
  All talk of doing the best for the game will go straight out of the window in those votes with most clubs just thinking of themselves, the top sides wanting promotion and the relegation threatened wanting the season voiding.
  However the teams like us under no such pressure if they got together could hold the key. The Peterborough owner is against a wage cap, the Tranmere owner is for one interesting times ahead.
   One tip I will give the Boro owner, his manager will be useless without a pot of money, he even knows it himself.

[NickDRFC]

Darragh MacAnthony was in the Guardian today proposing a wage cap based on turnover.

[ravenrover]

And the reason the EFL will let the clubs decide is fairly obvious to me, he says washing the blood off his hands

[selby]

  He said on talksport2 he was not convinced about wage caps across the board which would go along with that article Nick which i have not seen. He did not sound that keen on the idea as it was explained.

[tyke1962]

Well we are down under every idea they can think of including Duckworth and Lewis I've no doubt .

No point us belly aching either , we simply haven't been good enough .

I think the people running the game and those who own clubs are going to be in for a big shock when football does eventually return .

Many people aren't going to have the kind of money they had pre pandemic and that includes Sky Sports subscriptions .

There's going to be an almighty depression and football will not escape it .

Small clubs are going to be under real financial pressure just to survive but I also think many of the big championship clubs such as Derby County , Nottingham Forest and Wednesday are going to be in massive trouble .

Watch for the situation at Tottenham too , a billion pound new stadium to pay for .

Good luck with that with what's coming down the road .

[Upton Rover]

This is all pointless if the Premiership decide to abandon their season. No teams would go down, so not allowing Championship teams to go up having a domino affect on EFL

[Filo]

For once, we ate at an ideal position in the table, we were unlikely to go up or down, so which ever way they decide has little effect on us, thats why theres relative calm on this forum

[phil old leake]

Tyke 1962. You make a very good point
I do feel that the country will recovery quickly and the economy will recover
Short term some clubs and other businesses will suffer and some will close unfortunately

[silent majority]

Darragh MacAnthony was in the Guardian today proposing a wage cap based on turnover.

In principle we already have one of those, it's called FFP.

[NewDonny]

This is all pointless if the Premiership decide to abandon their season. No teams would go down, so not allowing Championship teams to go up having a domino affect on EFL

Even if they do abandon the EPL season, they will crown Liverpool champions, appoint the Champions/Europa League positions and nominate the three teams to go down based on final standings.

[tyke1962]

Tyke 1962. You make a very good point
I do feel that the country will recovery quickly and the economy will recover
Short term some clubs and other businesses will suffer and some will close unfortunately

Well in my opinion and I could may well be wrong , I often am.

I don't think that football today is as popular as they would like to think it is .

For me personally I haven't missed it since it stopped due to the pandemic , I take the point we are having a terrible season but we've had poor seasons before , lots of em and once we got to the middle of June I was counting the weeks down for the season to start , couldn't wait .

That's not how I feel anymore and I haven't for a good number of years .

Tell you now meeting up with my mates in the pub pre match is probably the only thing that's kept me going , saturday is my release day and understood by her who always knows best , 5 hours on a saturday afternoon is my time .

Take that away and I'd hardly bother with it to tell the truth .

Everything about this game today winds me up , ticket prices , daft KO times , agents , greedy players with no loyalty to nobody but their bank accounts , foreign owners ripping the heart n soul out of clubs including my own .

I wonder how many people out there think the same up and down the country , this break from the game might be a real game changer for many and it may well be they aren't missing it as much as they thought they would and their money could be better spent .

[Donnywolf]

Old Number 7 for a Barnsley (Acorn of course) better than Stancill but not as good as the "real" original BB. Makes me envious of the pre match entertainment at least. Arcade Alehouse seems ok as well for real ale

I was almost a Tyke myself with Dad moving to Grimethorpe when he were a lad but he upped sticks over to Donny and the rest is history as they say

[selby]

  OH Wolfie, what a lucky escape that was.

[tyke1962]

  OH Wolfie, what a lucky escape that was.

Well to be fair Selby that's debatable looking at the  history of the two clubs .

 

A great example last season of the modern game , during the international break in early March SKY picks our game at Southend United for live TV coverage .

For the Saturday lunch time spot ?????

Absolutely no reason I can think of to put the game on at that time , cover the game by all means but what was wrong with the Saturday evening slot at 5.30pm or Sunday afternoon .

There were no PL or Championship games bear in mind .

Who thought of our fans with regard to that KO time , absolutely nobody .

[scawsby steve]

Old Number 7 for a Barnsley (Acorn of course) better than Stancill but not as good as the "real" original BB. Makes me envious of the pre match entertainment at least. Arcade Alehouse seems ok as well for real ale

I was almost a Tyke myself with Dad moving to Grimethorpe when he were a lad but he upped sticks over to Donny and the rest is history as they say

That's an interesting one Wolfie. My dad's family are from Thurnscoe, which as you know is about halfway between Donny and Barnsley. This is reflected by who Thurnscoe people support. All the folk I know, including my uncles and cousins, seem to be completely split down the middle on Rovers or Tykes.

[IDM]

This is all pointless if the Premiership decide to abandon their season. No teams would go down, so not allowing Championship teams to go up having a domino affect on EFL

Even if they do abandon the EPL season, they will crown Liverpool champions, appoint the Champions/Europa League positions and nominate the three teams to go down based on final standings.

How can any club be declared champions of an abandoned season.?  Surely the season will need to be completed either by playing football or by concocting a formula to apply points to finish the season.

[selby]

 Tyke, what about the accent he would have had, and the thrill of going in the canal at Thorne head first he would have missed out on.

[NewDonny]

This is all pointless if the Premiership decide to abandon their season. No teams would go down, so not allowing Championship teams to go up having a domino affect on EFL

Even if they do abandon the EPL season, they will crown Liverpool champions, appoint the Champions/Europa League positions and nominate the three teams to go down based on final standings.

How can any club be declared champions of an abandoned season.?  Surely the season will need to be completed either by playing football or by concocting a formula to apply points to finish the season.

Why not, why can't it be based on the current standings, even if you levelled it out at 28 games played per piece, Liverpool are 25 points ahead as it is. France have done it awarding PSG the title, why can't the EPL?

Other sports (Formula 1& Cricket are two that I can think of right now) have a process for awarding races, matches for abandoned games.

[IDM]

Depends if you mean abandoning in the strictest sense which would mean season voided, or in a sense where a conclusion is concocted.?

I was meaning in the case of the former in my previous response.

[silent majority]

The thing is, I was concerned that I hadn't heard this story, (of finishing the season this way) from any other source, which is a strange one seeing as the EFL have been keeping us informed of their discussions for some time. So, I though I'd check the details and see where TalkSport got their story from, and it seems they haven't reported this accurately at all.

You can read the transcript of the Select Committee session in question at:

https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/335/html/

Rick Parry’s evidence to the Select Committee did not contain anything saying a proposal would be put to clubs this coming week or that a vote would be held. This was the question and his reply:

“Philip Davies: Finally, can you tell us the mechanism for determining whether you will complete your season? Do the clubs themselves decide, or does the EFL board decide for them? What is the decision-making process in the EFL to decide whether you will finish your season?
Rick Parry: It will go to the clubs. I think the board technically has the powers to make a decision, but it would be wholly appropriate, in this situation, to make sure that it went to the clubs.”

Basically he was asked what the mechanism would be for any decision and he told them.

The word “vote” appears nowhere in the transcript!


If you take the time and trouble to read this you'll find some interesting information on salary caps, size of squads, and an intention to finish the season!!

Q11 is very interesting from a sustainability point of view.

Q15/16 about promotion and relegation to the EPL

Q25 about a restructuring of finances

Q32 about the size of squads (players not in contract take note!)

[Not Now Kato]

Thanks for the link SM, that made for very interesting reading indeed, and not only the section on football.

[silent majority]

No worries NNK. I'm surprised that more people haven't commented to be honest as that appearance in front of the select committee by Rick Parry raises numerous questions and talking points.

Across this forum people are asking all the right questions but an up to date position with the EFL is in that interview.

I'm now hearing that the EFL have a government meeting this week and followed by a meeting of all clubs. We may get an up to date picture this weekend.

[NewDonny]

EFL Clubs Meeting this coming Friday with a decision expected shortly afterwards.

[silent majority]

EFL Clubs Meeting this coming Friday with a decision expected shortly afterwards.

Yep, as I mentioned above. Meeting with Government on Thursday, clubs on Friday, but I think you may be disappointed about a decision shortly afterwards if my updated info is correct.