No Brexit Extension

[SydneyRover]

I do understand your previous comment SS and maybe my comment wasn't as clear, which was aimed at those voters and their dislike/distrust of ....(ammended) the EU

I'm tired of all this shit we have swapped johnson for the EU we should be happy.

[drfchound]

I do understand your previous comment SS and maybe my comment wasn't as clear, which was aimed at those voters and their dislike/distrust of ....(ammended) the EU

I'm tired of all this shit we have swapped johnson for the EU we should be happy.

We?

[SydneyRover]

OK not you hound

[drfchound]

Ha.
Have you sneaked back to the UK.

[SydneyRover]

Apologies I forgot I was dealing with the little britain brigade

[drfchound]

I just don’t understand why you have to say “we” when you talk about Brexit or what goes on in the UK.

[SydneyRover]

There's a lot of stuff you don't understand hound but don't worry tomorrow's a new day lots of time for more questions.

[drfchound]

Well you can ask away in the morning then.

[tyke1962]

I do understand your previous comment SS and maybe my comment wasn't as clear, which was aimed at those voters and their dislike/distrust of ....(ammended) the EU

I'm tired of all this shit we have swapped johnson for the EU we should be happy.

No we've ditched the EU for what ever the country elects in four years time , Johnson's made sure that the vote stood , nothing more nothing less .

The future outside of the EU has yet to be defined in my opinion .

It's a slow burn is this Sydney and will cover more than the election we had last year .

[SydneyRover]

I agree Tyke it's a slow burn but as the link put up the other day from the ex-BOE bod emphasised, with an EU deal there is only one way brexit will effect the economy and it's going to cost. Whether there is a political penalty to pay by anyone that will be determined either on the way or at the next election.

If Biden gets it up the indicators are there is no hurry to sign a trade deal, that of course may change when reality bites and the dog catches the car, there will be one hell of a lot of work to do.

[SydneyRover]

Another scaremonger, what would he know aye?

''Bailey said failure to agree to a deal before the Brexit transition expires at the end of December would cause disruption to cross-border trade and damage the goodwill between London and Brussels needed to build a future economic partnership''

''No-deal Brexit to cost more than Covid, Bank of England governor says
Andrew Bailey said failure to agree to deal would cause long-term damage to UK economy''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/23/no-deal-brexit-to-cost-more-than-covid-bank-of-england-governor-says

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sydney.

I heard precisely the same last night on the radio from the ex-hesd civil servant at the Dept for Exiting the EU.

He said the projections were that COVID would reduce GDP by 1.5% over the medium term. Leaving the EU with a decent deal would give us a 5% GDP hit over the medium term. That's equivalent to losing the entire amount that we spend on running schools and colleges each year.

And that is the best case scenario with a good deal. Leave with no deal and we lose the entire Education, Defence and Policing budgets.

Still. We took back control, eh?

[SydneyRover]

You'd want to hope that Frost and the other negtiators are given every assistance to come up with some semblance of a deal.

[Axholme Lion]

  PR in 2016 would have seen a very strong Brexit party and a probable coalition with the Tories and probably Labour having to back brexit to be credible under Corbyn who would have been able to back his own convictions instead of cow tailing to the do gooders.

If we'd had PR from 1997, there would never have been a Brexit Party.

Very few people cared much about the EU before 2010, outside the rabid right wing fringe of the Tory party.

UKIP were irrelevant then.

And then we had the lunacy of Austerity. Working benefits cut. Stagnant wages for years. People understandably getting pissed off at working harder and getting poorer.

And Farage jumped on that and started getting traction that it was all down to competition from immigrant workers and that was the fault of the EU.

And UKIP started taking support from the Tories.

And Cameron addressed that by offering the Referendum if he won in 2015, never expecting to win an outright majority in 2015.

None of that would have happened with PR. The Tories wouldn't have been in power in 2010. There would have been a Lab/LD coalition. Farage would have remained an impotent gobshite, stirring up a few thousand Colonel Blimp type golf club bores, like he did before he got his chance. The EU would have remained the 8th or 9th most important thing on people's list of political priorities. Even if 2010-15 had played out as it did, the Tories would not have had a majority to get a Referendum through Parliament in 2015.


So, the Referendum would never have happened with PR. We would have been a far less volatile and riven society and we wouldn't have this tit as PM in the biggest crisis in 75 years.

And if you disagree with any of that, I strongly suggest you go and have a look at the opinion polls from 2005-2010 before you respond. Go and see how irrelevant Farage and UKIP were. And how little people really cared about the EU.

UKIP was not as important then because the BNP was on a roll at the time.

[BillyStubbsTears]

  PR in 2016 would have seen a very strong Brexit party and a probable coalition with the Tories and probably Labour having to back brexit to be credible under Corbyn who would have been able to back his own convictions instead of cow tailing to the do gooders.

If we'd had PR from 1997, there would never have been a Brexit Party.

Very few people cared much about the EU before 2010, outside the rabid right wing fringe of the Tory party.

UKIP were irrelevant then.

And then we had the lunacy of Austerity. Working benefits cut. Stagnant wages for years. People understandably getting pissed off at working harder and getting poorer.

And Farage jumped on that and started getting traction that it was all down to competition from immigrant workers and that was the fault of the EU.

And UKIP started taking support from the Tories.

And Cameron addressed that by offering the Referendum if he won in 2015, never expecting to win an outright majority in 2015.

None of that would have happened with PR. The Tories wouldn't have been in power in 2010. There would have been a Lab/LD coalition. Farage would have remained an impotent gobshite, stirring up a few thousand Colonel Blimp type golf club bores, like he did before he got his chance. The EU would have remained the 8th or 9th most important thing on people's list of political priorities. Even if 2010-15 had played out as it did, the Tories would not have had a majority to get a Referendum through Parliament in 2015.


So, the Referendum would never have happened with PR. We would have been a far less volatile and riven society and we wouldn't have this tit as PM in the biggest crisis in 75 years.

And if you disagree with any of that, I strongly suggest you go and have a look at the opinion polls from 2005-2010 before you respond. Go and see how irrelevant Farage and UKIP were. And how little people really cared about the EU.

UKIP was not as important then because the BNP was on a roll at the time.

So you couldn't be bothered to take my advice and look at the numbers before giving us your opinion?

In terms of voter support, the BNP was irrelevant, as were UKIP.

In 2005, they got 0.7% of the General Election vote. UKIP got 2.2%.

They got 1.8% of the vote in 2010. UKIP got 3%. Between them, they were barely a blip on the landscape. They were far right loonies, screaming into the void. Neither of them would have got a seat in a sensible PR system, which requires a minimum percentage of the vote to get a seat, precisely to stop the extreme nutter from getting exposure.

By 2013, after 3 years of Austerity, that had all changed. UKIP were getting 20-odd% in the polls, bizarrely, much of it from disgruntled ex-Lib Dem voters and most of the rest from the Tories. Labour were 10% in the polls. The economy was tanking. The Tories were panicking and that's when Cameron promised a Brexit Referendum to see off the UKIP threat.

[Axholme Lion]

  PR in 2016 would have seen a very strong Brexit party and a probable coalition with the Tories and probably Labour having to back brexit to be credible under Corbyn who would have been able to back his own convictions instead of cow tailing to the do gooders.

If we'd had PR from 1997, there would never have been a Brexit Party.

Very few people cared much about the EU before 2010, outside the rabid right wing fringe of the Tory party.

UKIP were irrelevant then.

And then we had the lunacy of Austerity. Working benefits cut. Stagnant wages for years. People understandably getting pissed off at working harder and getting poorer.

And Farage jumped on that and started getting traction that it was all down to competition from immigrant workers and that was the fault of the EU.

And UKIP started taking support from the Tories.

And Cameron addressed that by offering the Referendum if he won in 2015, never expecting to win an outright majority in 2015.

None of that would have happened with PR. The Tories wouldn't have been in power in 2010. There would have been a Lab/LD coalition. Farage would have remained an impotent gobshite, stirring up a few thousand Colonel Blimp type golf club bores, like he did before he got his chance. The EU would have remained the 8th or 9th most important thing on people's list of political priorities. Even if 2010-15 had played out as it did, the Tories would not have had a majority to get a Referendum through Parliament in 2015.


So, the Referendum would never have happened with PR. We would have been a far less volatile and riven society and we wouldn't have this tit as PM in the biggest crisis in 75 years.

And if you disagree with any of that, I strongly suggest you go and have a look at the opinion polls from 2005-2010 before you respond. Go and see how irrelevant Farage and UKIP were. And how little people really cared about the EU.

UKIP was not as important then because the BNP was on a roll at the time.

So you couldn't be bothered to take my advice and look at the numbers before giving us your opinion?

In terms of voter support, the BNP was irrelevant, as were UKIP.

In 2005, they got 0.7% of the General Election vote. UKIP got 2.2%.

They got 1.8% of the vote in 2010. UKIP got 3%. Between them, they were barely a blip on the landscape. They were far right loonies, screaming into the void. Neither of them would have got a seat in a sensible PR system, which requires a minimum percentage of the vote to get a seat, precisely to stop the extreme nutter from getting exposure.

By 2013, after 3 years of Austerity, that had all changed. UKIP were getting 20-odd% in the polls, bizarrely, much of it from disgruntled ex-Lib Dem voters and most of the rest from the Tories. Labour were 10% in the polls. The economy was tanking. The Tories were panicking and that's when Cameron promised a Brexit Referendum to see off the UKIP threat.

They got enough votes and council seats over the years to put the frighteners on the LibLabCon clique. They may have been irrelevant in gaining seats, but you don't always need to do that to force other people to change direction and think hard about why people were voting for them.

[selby]

 I can't wait for all these doom prophecies to come to fruition especially if they are as good as the science has been about the number of  covid deaths
were.
  With experts and scientist like those we could do with a few amateurs having a go and a lottery to get some money in.

[Axholme Lion]

I can't wait for all these doom prophecies to come to fruition especially if they are as good as the science has been about the number of  covid deaths
were.
  With experts and scientist like those we could do with a few amateurs having a go and a lottery to get some money in.

If you listened to all these self appointed so called experts on everything in the headlines such as climate, Brexit and covid you could well be forgiven for jumping off Beachy Head without a parachute! We're all doomed I tell ye!

[wilts rover]

I can't wait for all these doom prophecies to come to fruition especially if they are as good as the science has been about the number of  covid deaths
were.
  With experts and scientist like those we could do with a few amateurs having a go and a lottery to get some money in.

Are you talking about the projection of the number of covid deaths in a scenario in which the goverment took no action to stop the spread of a deadly disease - or some other ones? Beacuse its' good that nobody serious in powere decided to see if they would come true or not - and decided to put in measures designed to achieve the not.

Lets hope they are wise enough to do the same over an EU deal.

[Axholme Lion]

I can't wait for all these doom prophecies to come to fruition especially if they are as good as the science has been about the number of  covid deaths
were.
  With experts and scientist like those we could do with a few amateurs having a go and a lottery to get some money in.

Are you talking about the projection of the number of covid deaths in a scenario in which the goverment took no action to stop the spread of a deadly disease - or some other ones? Beacuse its' good that nobody serious in powere decided to see if they would come true or not - and decided to put in measures designed to achieve the not.


Lets hope they are wise enough to do the same over an EU deal.

The projections from the likes of Keep it in your trousers Ferguson, who seldom gets any prediction right, or Dim Whitty and his side kick who always go over the top.

[selby]

  We could always just do what the Germans and French are good at, sign a treaty and then just break it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Selby.

We already HAVE broken the Withdrawal Agreement treaty that was overwhelmingly voted for by Parliament in January.

Which treaties have the French and Germans broken?

[Axholme Lion]

Selby.

We already HAVE broken the Withdrawal Agreement treaty that was overwhelmingly voted for by Parliament in January.

Which treaties have the French and Germans broken?

The Treaty of Versailles was a pretty big one.

[IDM]

That’s kind of been dealt with 70-80 years ago..

[Axholme Lion]

That’s kind of been dealt with 70-80 years ago..

If that's the case why are peopling still going on about what the British Empire did two hundred years ago?

[IDM]

Some wrongs take longer to put right, perhaps.?

I don’t think we should ignore history, but learn from it.

[selby]

 The Russians were a bit miffed with the Germans at one point.

[Not Now Kato]

I have, on a number of occasions, asked leavers to post a single, quantifiable, benefit of Brexit without any serious replies coming forward. Well, though I still remain very sceptical about Brexit and it's impact on the UK as a whole, I have just found a genuine benefit of Brexit....

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55167473

 

Whilst the Farmers Union appear to be opposed to it, this can only be a good thing and should be welcomed by all sides of the argument.

[SydneyRover]

Indeed it is good Kato live animal shipments have never been a good option and virtually unregulated treatment at the other end

[Axholme Lion]

Farming subsidies are now to be paid on the environmental efforts farmers make rather than the amount of land they have. Maybe we will see some hedge rows coming back?